WalkinDude Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Why not use a fRickon if it's a ruse? Delivering what is, to the best of their knowledge, the last male Stark heir into the hands of batshit psycho Ramsay is not only incredibly stupid but makes zero sense if they're planning on turning on Ramsay. It's not a ruse, and you can take it to the bank. It's just lazy and bad storytelling that relies so much on shocks and twists that everything else is forgotten and requires constant hand waves. I agree with you, I just don't understand why they do it this way. They already have a stock direwolf head in their inventory. Why not just paint it black rather than use a smaller one that any observant watcher will comment on? Why Have the SmallJon refuse to pledge fealty, knowing that it's going to raise eyebrows, just to have him mean everything he said and ally with House Bolton. Martin creates distractions because it makes for good story telling and half the fun in reading these books is trying to piece the small things together. A really observant reader could have figured out Lysa is the one who poisoned Jon Arryn in the first book. D&D just create distractions because they're unaware of how their story is inconsistent or illogical. Point in case Sand Snakes teleporting to King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 48 minutes ago, WalkinDude said: I agree with you, I just don't understand why they do it this way. They already have a stock direwolf head in their inventory. Why not just paint it black rather than use a smaller one that any observant watcher will comment on? Why Have the SmallJon refuse to pledge fealty, knowing that it's going to raise eyebrows, just to have him mean everything he said and ally with House Bolton. Martin creates distractions because it makes for good story telling and half the fun in reading these books is trying to piece the small things together. A really observant reader could have figured out Lysa is the one who poisoned Jon Arryn in the first book. D&D just create distractions because they're unaware of how their story is inconsistent or illogical. Point in case Sand Snakes teleporting to King's Landing. They do it this way because they're not good writers, imo. Martin's unexpected twists are foreshadowed and hinted at, the clues are there even if one doesn't catch them all the first time around. But the showrunners do everything like this, their unexpected twists either come out of nowhere or are "foreshadowed" (using that really loosely) in the most ridiculously heavy-handed way possible, like ChekhOlly. And that's why the NotUmber said that, precisely to raise eyebrows and make people wonder, it's very clumsy and lazy, it's also boring and it backfires because these unexpected twists become so easy to predict. Another example from this season is Tyrion and Varys talking when they see the fleet burning, and Tyrion says something to the effect of, "She [Dany] won't be sailing to Westeros anytime soon". Now we can be sure that she will indeed be sailing to Westeros soon. It's terrible storytelling, but apparently, it's the best they can do, since "this is the best season yet, not one weak episode". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: But the showrunners do everything like this, their unexpected twists either come out of nowhere or are "foreshadowed" (using that really loosely) in the most ridiculously heavy-handed way possible, like ChekhOlly. And that's why the NotUmber said that, precisely to raise eyebrows and make people wonder, it's very clumsy and lazy, Soooo, will they betray Ramsay (because they handed him Rickon on a silver plate) or won't they (because Umber didn't kneel)? I can't follow your logic. btw: The Umbers won't betray Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Just now, messem said: Soooo, will they betray Ramsay (because they handed him Rickon on a silver plate) or won't they (because Umber didn't kneel)? I can't follow your logic. btw: The Umbers won't betray Ramsay. Why can't you follow it? Using the part of my post you quoted: "And that's why the NotUmber said that, precisely to raise eyebrows and make people wonder, it's very clumsy and lazy," They want people to wonder, "is there a chance this is a ruse?", so they make NotUmber not swear fealty. But if I'm not making myself sufficiently clear, it's not a ruse, the Umbers will not turn on Ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: it's not a ruse, the Umbers will not turn on Ramsay. Okay. I'm with you. This what I read from the scene immediately. I've never seen a ruse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 27 minutes ago, messem said: Okay. I'm with you. This what I read from the scene immediately. I've never seen a ruse. Well, the truth is, it's stupid if it's for real and not a ruse, but it's even worse if it is. It's a no-win scenario, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 31 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Well, the truth is, it's stupid if it's for real and not a ruse, but it's even worse if it is. It's a no-win scenario, plain and simple. Simple, viewers wouldn't have reacted the same way if they knew it was a Ruse. It doesn't seem to make sense but we'll see where they want to go with it. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell could have significance, maybe it's easier to kill the Bolton's from inside, but who the F knows. Chances are that it's nothing, and it's a straight forward gift but the possibility of a double cross can't be ruled out just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToTheWolves Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 90% sure rickon will die and that there is no ruse going on by the umbers. I would love to be wrong about this, but What you seen is what you get(on the show) D&D are cleaning house and getting rid of as many characters as possible that aren't important to the end game. They said something like by the end of this season viewers will feel much closer to the end of the story. also there is a scene in the trailer that hasn't happened yet where he is shaprening his flaying knives. Most people thought it would be roose or Walda getting flayed. So I'm guessing it will be osha. Also there is the whole "you like to play games little man" line by Ramsay. I assume he is talking to rickon. Spoiler Btw I don't think rickon will get flayed but I think he will get killed right before Jon or Sansa makes it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 10 hours ago, Gannicus said: Simple, viewers wouldn't have reacted the same way if they knew it was a Ruse. It doesn't seem to make sense but we'll see where they want to go with it. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell could have significance, maybe it's easier to kill the Bolton's from inside, but who the F knows. Chances are that it's nothing, and it's a straight forward gift but the possibility of a double cross can't be ruled out just yet. Sure, the possibility of a double cross can't be dismissed yet. But my opinion is that it isn't a double cross, and that the Umber guy will not turn on Ramsay. And here I am giving the show runners the benefit of the doubt, even though I should know better. Because as I said up thread, if Umber turns on Ramsay, it's much, much worse and incredibly stupider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Art Parkinson confirmed it was Shaggy but wehave to pay attention to details. Wonder what it means because Smalljon never plead fealty to Ramsay or kneel before him. But then why to kill Shaggy? For shock value? I wouldn't put it past D&D they are all about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMountainDew Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 With regards to Osha, I have my own reasons for thinking she's not long for this world that are outside of the books/show. As for Rickon, he's had such a minor part in both the show and the books so I don't really see why they would want to keep him around. Most unsullied I know forgot he even existed until last night. As for Shaggydog, I'm torn. Personally, if somebody put my lovely dog's head on a table, even if I knew it was coming, I'd at the very least well up. I actually did think that the head was too small but that was probably just a poor effort on the programme's part. (BTW: Hello. That was my first post. Play nice!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Art Parkinson confirmed it was Shaggy but wehave to pay attention to details. Wonder what it means because Smalljon never plead fealty to Ramsay or kneel before him. But then why to kill Shaggy? For shock value? I wouldn't put it past D&D they are all about that. The fact that he didn't swear fealty doesn't mean anything. Either they just want viewers to hang onto a bit of hope that the Umbers will go back to being staunch Stark loyalists, or it's just to show that they'll fight against the Starks despite not having exactly accepted Ramsay as their liege lord. Just think about it, if it was a ruse and they are planning on turning on Ramsay, why in seven hells would they deliver the real Rickon to mad psycho Ramsay? For all they know, Rickon is the last male Stark heir, it would make zero sense.. The bottom line here is, if it is a ruse and Umber is planning on double crossing Ramsay, the whole thing is even worse and dumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 42 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Art Parkinson confirmed it was Shaggy Kit Harrington confirmed Jon was dead. I wouldn't give a single teaspoon full of shite what actors say. Said that I think it was Shaggy's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Lovely! /s http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/game-of-thrones-art-parkinson_us_5730d3c3e4b016f378968aee Uh, yeah, I’d say so,” Rickon Stark himself, actor Art Parkinson, told The Huffington Post in an interview. The actor continued, “It was a little bit disappointing because, you know, looking at the dogs we had on set ... and that you’d never really get to hang out with them again. When I read that Shaggydog was dead, I was definitely a little upset.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMountainDew Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I have to say, as much as I love Iwan, Ramsay is getting pretty tiresome now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 hour ago, messem said: Kit Harrington confirmed Jon was dead. I wouldn't give a single teaspoon full of shite what actors say. Said that I think it was Shaggy's head. Not everybody needs to lie. Don't be paranoid. He confirmed it, end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannicus Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 11 hours ago, TheMountainDew said: I have to say, as much as I love Iwan, Ramsay is getting pretty tiresome now. I couldn't agree more. The actor kills it, but it's such a one dimensional character and we've been overloaded with him. A layered bad guy is always so much more entertaining. I don't understand the incessant need to one up the novel in terms of darkness. The novel is already pretty grim & gritty, not sure why they think more Ramsey, torcher, and general kicks to the groin are the play here. The show is overdue for a fist pumping moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I'm so worried about what Ramsay may do to Rickon and Osha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastLibrarian Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: I'm so worried about what Ramsay may do to Rickon and Osha I think that Ramsay will send a letter to Jon trying to bargain Rickon with Sansa and sorry I don't see a happy end for Osha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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