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rs1n

Faceless men history turned on its head

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8 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

What bothers me about the whole storyline, is not really the waif because that is easily explained by her being a trainee too, but rather that it is simply so much better in the books, and would not have been difficult or expensive to follow more closely.  I mean she learned fighting while blind and that is about it.  In the book she figured out how to kill the insurance guy herself, becomes an excellent thief, learns multiple languages, poisons, to fight blind, mummery, and still has not learned the actual face switching techniques other than literally putting the face over her own.  In the show she also did not learn the face switching technique and that bothers me.  I feel like that is the real skill of the fm, it's in the name, she could learn everything else from anyone.

In the show she did actually learn the face switching, she just apparently got blinded for doing it without being no one. Jaqen said she is no one now so maybe she can do it... Or maybe not since she declined and calls herself Arya.

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10 hours ago, Kienn said:

No, viciousness is relative. Trant was vicious so he gets a vicious death. That doesn't mean Arya is.

So according to the same logic Ramsey is an upstanding fellow and his victims were vicious?

OK, that was trolling

But I have this feeling you think it's justified to torture people who torture people. Do you really think that Ned would give Trant vicious death? Or simply chop off his head with Ice? Do you think Jon will rape, emasculate and fly Ramsay for what he did? Do people of the Night's Watch eat up cannibals they defeat? Normal people see no benefit in causing unnecessary suffering and don't enjoy killing.

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10 hours ago, Kienn said:

In the show she did actually learn the face switching, she just apparently got blinded for doing it without being no one. Jaqen said she is no one now so maybe she can do it... Or maybe not since she declined and calls herself Arya.

Arya put the face over her face, she did not use any magic.  When the waif stabs Arya she pulls off the face and it just vanishes, just like all the faces Arya pulls off before going blind.  A few seasons back, like in the books Jaqen simply runs his hand over his face and the face changes.  Also, that is way to big of something to happen off screen.

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Has someone already said or does anyone know what was the reason Waif hated Arya? She may have known all those details about Arya Stark from Jaquen when he came back from Westeros .  But I still keep wondering what was the Waifs hatred from.

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On 6/17/2016 at 4:46 AM, Hooooodooooor said:

The only way I can remotely reconcile the FM in the show back to the books is if the "contract" on Lady Crane was a test.

It feels to me that this is not a contract that the FM would accept, and certainly not one that a jealous jobbing actress could afford. 

So perhaps it was a test to ascertain whether or not a girl was the right type of person to be a FM.

Perhaps it was exactly the type of test the Waif had failed in the past... hence the "kid kept back in school" advanced training and jealousy situation... which is one of the many reasons that the Waif was never going to cut it as a FM.

It's a bit cacky to expect a casual viewer to join all the dots though..

This is what I am thinking as well. It makes sense. And maybe when Jaquen has said that a girl has many gifts, some might be that he saw in Westeros that she cared and tried to protect / help some who were innocent. As well as the fact that she is able to kill. So these traits I guess showed him that she could be the right sort of person to be FM. Then when she was sent to kill for the Many-Faced God she actually did the right thing , but to viewers and the Waif it looked like the wrong thing. 

So I'm thinking you are on the right track.

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I haaaaaaaated this storyline in the books.  Like.  HATE hated.  Like.  So bored I fell asleep repeatedly hated.  Because of that, I am super not caring that the ending of it was stupid.  I just wish A show had decided to simplify/shorten things.  Why not have it just be 1 season in Braavos?  Bring Arya and The Hound back together in early S6.  Or send Arya to Winterfell in time to meet up with Jon or Sansa/Podrienne.  would have been a better use of Maisies talents.  Then again too much Stark reunion might have just made us all nervous... :/

anyway, it's whatever.  As for the supposed FM "lore" I'm not really buying it.  It's against the core principles of GRRMs books that someone can really be trained to become "no one".  Everything in asoiaf is ultimately the result of personal, emotional choices.  In that way I prefer the shows waif and KM (though as I said it's the difference between hated and really hated).  At least we are shown they are humans and not paper thin robots designed to be training dummies for Arya.  The FM really being soulless super assassins doesn't jive for me - no more than the unsullied really being inhuman (which its demonstrated they are not).

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On 15 June 2016 at 4:11 PM, SamuelVimes said:

Given that the Waif has also been blatantly obvious in her personal hatred of Arya, which seems just a leeeeetle bit at odds with the dispassionate attitude and no-one-ness the Faceless Men are supposed to have, I'd say that the show's done a piss-poor job with this particular group. (I also feel like Jaqen's "Now a girl is no one" is totally unearned--she killed the Waif, yeah, but, uh, she still refused to kill the actress and still wants to kill people for personal reasons, and Jaqen frankly is smarter than to think that her killing the Waif somehow made her become no one. It just doesn't make sense.) But sense and consistency have been sacrificed at the altar of Getting the Show Moving Along Quickly. 

I completely agree.  I did enjoy the episode but the fact that the Waif openly pursued Arya with countless witnesses around AND that the public disturbance attracted attention, was completely inconsistent with the way the Faceless Men operate.  Surely, a true Faceless Man would let Arya go knowing full well that there would be other opportunities, not chase her through the streets knife in hand like some common thug?

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Yeah, Arya has shown herself to be the worst assassin ever. She killed someone she wasn't supposed to, in a very messy way might I add, then refused to kill someone she WAS supposed to (even exposing the FM's client) then defected and killed the one sent to kill her as retribution. Someone that makes her a Faceless One? Those are some pretty lax entry standards.

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