Not Confirmed

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

14 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

True--it would be kinder to kill him more quickly.

But the look on Ned's face when he strikes that blow is NOT mercy. It's hatred and vengeance. 

And the look on Bran's face as he watches Ned do it is disgust and horror. He does not see his father as administering "honor" or "mercy."

As I said before, my thoughts are that Bran had that look because he realised that what He was told and he believed in, wasn't the true story... Because he kept saying 'I know the story'... Then he was shocked and said 'He stabbed him in the back!?' So obviously he knew the wrong story... but then he enters the TOJ and discovers another BIG TRUTH/LIE about Jon... So I think the way Dayne died pushed him to question himself about everything he thought were true... but I don't see how the horror on Bran's face means 'Jon's Arthur's son'... I don't see where's the link...

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

14 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Hmmm.  Might be because I'm an actor, but all that stuff with the sword. . . you could practically hear the director calling for Dayne to plant the sword on X mark. And then the camera focus and shots--I've been in scenes where they highlight things--that's how it's just done.

The repeated focus, the specificity--just seems like really obvious camera work and direction and actor contrivance.

But is anyone not biased on this subject? RLJ is EVERYWHERE. I once ran into it in the Wall Street Journal of all places. It's a blatantly obvious possibility in the books--readers can't miss it on a first read--halfway through Game, the possibility is clear as day when Ned talks of Lyanna in her "bed of blood." Martin is not very subtle on this one.

So, many, many fans have had their minds made up for years. Can any of us be objective on the subject? Aren't we all going into the trial somewhat mostly believing in only one side?

I don't... I'm trying to understand... I mean... Just the sword and then Jon is Arthur's son? Just the sword?? really? So Jon is also Mormont's son? Because he gave him his sword... The way they shots Longclaw is fantastic... I mean give us reasons NOT to believe in R+L=J?

[Rory Snow]

23 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Ok... Jon is Arthur's son... Why does that matter? Does he need to be a Dayne to hold Dawn? Maybe he won't because Arthur's blood from the sword touched Lyanna's blood? And as Jon has Lyanna's blood... I mean we can all understand different things from the same single scene, you know? 

I know you were being sarcastic but it illustrates a key point none the less. If Jon is made to be Dayne's son just so he can wield Dawn, why hasn't the show put even a moment of time into making people understand the how and why of Dawn's importance, history and inheritance regulations? Everything seems to get foreshadowed in this series, just recently the Hound gets mentioned several times before reappearing. We got the Mad King 'burn them all' flashback prior to Cersei actually burning them all. The list goes on and on. Yet we're supposed to ignore all the R+L foreshadowing just because Arthur Dayne has a pretty blade. Arthur Dayne, the most noble man in Westeros who has taken an oath of celibacy by the way, is having his way with a girl Rhaegar kidnapped for him because Dayne needs an heir for his sword? A sword that is so powerful and unstoppable that the first time we actually see it Dayne draws a second blade because apparently Dawn isn't enough to get the job done.

Nope, not buyin' it.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

2 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

I know you were being sarcastic but it illustrates a key point none the less. If Jon is made to be Dayne's son just so he can wield Dawn, why hasn't the show put even a moment of time into making people understand the how and why of Dawn's importance, history and inheritance regulations? Everything seems to get foreshadowed in this series, just recently the Hound gets mentioned several times before reappearing. We got the Mad King 'burn them all' flashback prior to Cersei actually burning them all. The list goes on and on. Yet we're supposed to ignore all the R+L foreshadowing just because Arthur Dayne has a pretty blade. Arthur Dayne, the most noble man in Westeros who has taken an oath of celibacy by the way, is having his way with a girl Rhaegar kidnapped for him because Dayne needs an heir for his sword? A sword that is so powerful and unstoppable that the first time we actually see it Dayne draws a second blade because apparently Dawn isn't enough to get the job done.

Nope, not buyin' it.

so funny!!

"Arthur Dayne, the most noble man in Westeros who has taken an oath of celibacy by the way, is having his way with a girl Rhaegar kidnapped for him because Dayne needs an heir for his sword?"  

anyways... one last point is that, if we want to be really SURE about Rhaegar, then we shall wait... anything is possible in GoT... 

[Sly Wren]

On July 17, 2016 at 3:07 PM, J. Stargaryen said:

What I mean is that the character intro and foreshadowing are basically indisputable, especially the former. Nice segue! And the same could be said about the intent to give us insight into Robert's mindset, too. But, your interpretation of the scene is not as certain. It might be a little too specific, for example. Or not. You could be right, of course. But still, it's clearer to me that the scene was meant to serve as an intro for Dany.

I agree it's an intro fro Dany. It's an excellent segue. But that's also because it shows us Robert's hatred of Rheagar's relatives that it works so very well to introduce Dany.

On July 17, 2016 at 3:07 PM, J. Stargaryen said:

Yeah, like when he crowned Lyanna the QoLaB. Robert already had reason to believe that Rhaegar was interested in her.

Yes--I'm really hoping the showrunners give us something of Harrenhal. Martin sure better. He's teased and teased us with the reactions to the crowning. The showrunners did, too. Really hoping we get that somehow.

On July 17, 2016 at 3:07 PM, J. Stargaryen said:

Based on Arthur's reputation, and the fact that the revelation would have come out of left field, I have my doubts that Robert would have been able to simply cut+paste his anger onto Arthur. The confusion alone would probably have been enough to make him question everything about Lyanna's disappearance.

Ture--but Robert rather quickly cut-and-pasted his rage onto Rhaenys and Aegon, two completely innocent little children. He dehumanized them entirely. Arthur, Rhaegar's grown-up bestie, closer than any other friend--I could see the transfer of guilt to a grown man happening pretty fast, too.

But I really hope the confusion would have made him question Lyanna's disappearance. In the books, Ned seems to struggle to get Robert to rethink much of anything--making Tywin Warden of the East, having all the Lannisters around him--and those are just minor preconceptions. The idea that Lyanna was taken and raped is REALLY strong in his head. Could see him not rethinking at all, just adding Arthur in to her list of rapists.

On July 17, 2016 at 3:07 PM, J. Stargaryen said:

I mean, I guess I can't rule out this speculation.

Yes--until we get more text, it's hard to rule out a lot of speculation.

[Sly Wren]

On July 18, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Then why didn't they introduced the Dayne's way before? Just when Jamie read in the book 'Ser Arthur Dayne' and the second time 'TOJ'... That's it?! But they kept talking about Rhaegar? 

If Jon is a Dayne, I'm out... Because how can you troll people like that?

Well, we know the showrunners love to troll us.

And Martin trolled us hard with the death of Jon Arryn.

I'm not sure who has read the books or not, and the show wasn't as explicit as the books, but Martin really misdirected readers on some things, including the instigating incidents for the War of the 5 Kings.

 

 

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So Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna who he thought was the most beautiful girl in all westoros to give her to Dayne? C'MON!!

I agree--I very much doubt Rhaegar "took" Lyanna at all. I think it's much more likely that he ended up with her--like the Brotherhood ends up with Arya after she runs for her life. We've been shown repeatedly in the books and even in the show that what people think happened, even what people think they absolutely know, is not true. Even when it comes to instigating incidents for wars. One way or another, I thinks there's a whoppingly good chance that Rhaegar never "took" Lyanna, whether he is the father of her child or not.

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Ok! And Dayne is a King's guard..; He can father no children... It's not like the NW but

The books and show have both made a point of showing us that the Kingsguard and the Night's Watch fail--often. Especially when it comes to paramours.

Jon, a sworn brother, beats himself up after falling for a wild, very-northern girl. In the books, he wonders if it was the same for his father. But Jon still falls for her and sleeps with her and worries about getting her pregnant.

Jon, noble and high-minded and trying so hard to be really good and keep his vows--still falls for a girl while on a mission for the Watch. For his sworn brotherhood. Do readers/viewers or characters who know him think much less of him for it? 

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.. I'm done... I know you will say "THAT'S THE REASON WHY NO ONE HAD TO KNOW THAT THE BABY WAS ARTHUR'S" I see that coming but yes! and no! Let's just wait until the next season... 

Well, it's just the reason I suspect the baby might be Arthur's. Not asserting knowledge.

Though, for the bolded--yes, until we get the next book or season, we don't get confirmation. Hopefully the book will come first.

[Sly Wren]

On July 18, 2016 at 4:45 AM, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

It can also show that the SWORD might be important refering to the 'sun' and that the WW don't really appreciate the sun... But there is no link to Arthur there? Despite the fact that he held that Sword...

I haven't read the books... I'm actually in the first book...

So IN the show, the only sword that is IMPORTANT isss???..... JON'S sword... 'Longclaw'... He killed a WW with that Sword... And yet you still arguing over a Sword JUST because Ned put it next to Lyanna... Very interesting...  So maybe Jon will loose Longclaw and replace it by Sunny or Dawn or I don't know what...

Yes--the show has not done well setting up the sword. They did bring up the title--Sword of the Morning. So, that's something.

Though they also made Valyrian steel just look like normal steel--it looks really cool in the books. While Dawn is milkglass and looks alive in light. I guess the CGI wasn't workable for either Valyrian steel or milk glass Dawn. Which is really a pity. 

But the books and World Book make no bones about the fact that Dawn is the only completely unique sword in the entire series. Or history of that series. And it goes back before Valyrian steel. And Martin in an SSM said that it currently waits at Starfall for the next Sword of the Morning.

In the books, the sword matters to a lot of people, including Ned, Jon, and Bran.

So far, all the show has done to tell us the sword matters has been done with conspicuous placement and camera angles. And give the name Sword of the Morning. But they took the time to do at least that. Until we get the next season or book, we don't know where they are going with this. But they took time on it.

On July 18, 2016 at 4:45 AM, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

That scene could either mean that the story we are all aware of, is actually not that true... or that LF thinks that Sansa is a stupid Lady... like 'Don't tell me you believe that story?' <snip> So it was just to signifie that Stories and Reality are two different things... And also that people believe in what they want! I see a semi filled cup of water, you see a semi empty cup of water... Same cup, same quantity, but different understanding of the situation... Just like Sansa and Robert... Oberyn and LF... 

I completely agree. Until we get more info, all we know is that something is wrong with the story Sansa has learned. But we do not know what is wrong with it. So, lots and lots of options.

On July 18, 2016 at 4:45 AM, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Really? YOU made it all about Arthur... In fact the Narration is awesome... Especially the part where Ned asks Arthur why he didn't protect his prince...? He says 'Our prince wanted us here... to protect my son....'

My apologies--by narration I meant Bran and Bloodraven's "narration" of the scene they were watching. Not the dialogue between Ned and Arthur and the Unnamed Disposable Guy. I should have been clearer.

Bran and Bloodraven's narration was not about the valor of the kingsguard dying for their sworn duty or any of the other debates that readers have had for years on the forums.

That narration was all about the fight between Arthur and Ned's not being at all what Bran has heard. And Bran's horror and confusion about why he never knew that particular truth. Echoing Ned's convo with Bran in the books about Arthur and his sword and Ned's sadness over Arthur's death.

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Ok... Jon is Arthur's son... Why does that matter? Does he need to be a Dayne to hold Dawn?

According to Martin and the World Book, yes. Only a worthy Dayne can wield Dawn. If there's no worthy Dayne, the sword waits at Starfall until the next Sword of the Morning "shall arise" (to use Martin's phrasing). So, it requires both blood and "worthiness."  

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I mean we can all understand different things from the same single scene, you know? 

Absolutely. As the title of the thread says--"not confirmed." I think it very likely that Arthur is Jon's father, but there's no way the show has confirmed that. I also think it very likely that Rhaegar could be Jon's father--but the show hasn't confirmed that either.

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As I said before, my thoughts are that Bran had that look because he realised that what He was told and he believed in, wasn't the true story... Because he kept saying 'I know the story'... Then he was shocked and said 'He stabbed him in the back!?' So obviously he knew the wrong story... but then he enters the TOJ and discovers another BIG TRUTH/LIE about Jon... So I think the way Dayne died pushed him to question himself about everything he thought were true... but I don't see how the horror on Bran's face means 'Jon's Arthur's son'... I don't see where's the link...

That's very possible. It's just that of all the clues they could have shown Bran--the crowning, a shot of Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, Rhaegar playing his harp for her, the prophecy stuff--they chose none of that. They chose Arthur's death. Echoing Bran learning about Ned's sadness over Arthur in the books and Bran later wishing he'd asked why Ned was sad. 

I don't think it "proves" Arthur is Jon's father. But it strongly suggests that Arthur is very important to Ned. And so far, we don't know why in the show or in the books--why does this moment matter so much?

One option--Ned killed a man without knowing he was important, personally important. If Arthur were Jon's father, that would make Ned's not telling the truth about Arthur's death make sense. And explain why Bloodraven showed Bran that death scene instead of all the other moments he could have shown Bran to tell him the truth about Jon.

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I don't... I'm trying to understand... I mean... Just the sword and then Jon is Arthur's son? Just the sword?? really? So Jon is also Mormont's son? Because he gave him his sword... The way they shots Longclaw is fantastic... I mean give us reasons NOT to believe in R+L=J?

Well, far as the books and show have shown us, Valyrian steel swords can be sold or stolen or given to non-family members.

Dawn only goes to a worthy Dayne. Has done for thousands of years. It's completely unique in-world. 

[Cantarella]

On 16/7/2016 at 2:48 AM, Shortspear Rick said:

Please tell me anything that would actually link Arthur Dayne to bedding Lyanna and being Jon's father. I'll save you the time. There is zero evidence for it other than the mindless "shipping" of contrarian fans. Everything you just posted leads to a conclusion that the sword Dawn should play a role against battling the White Walkers. Nothing more. It has absolutely nothing to connect to Jon Snow aside from the fact you desperately want him to be a Dayne and refuse to accept Rhaegar as his father. Get over it and look at the facts instead of merely ignoring facts and going on what you think would be cool to see. 2+2=4 and R+L=J. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't mean your fan fiction has any bearing in reality. 

*CLAP CLAP CLAP*

my friend, let me give you an advice :dont waste your time on these RLJ-deniers. no matter what we/the showrunners/or even GRRM himself say, they will just follow their "logic"and will never accept the truth. i pity them, alot, poor souls

[Cantarella]

On 17/7/2016 at 0:48 AM, Shortspear Rick said:

Ok, so, you're using the shots of the sword as your evidence? You mean the same sword about which you only know anything due to details in the books? The same sword that anyone unfamiliar with would have no frame of reference for and instead be paying attention to Ned and Lyanna? Whatever makes you sleep at night. Have you ever heard of an easter egg? You know, something that a filmmaker will slip in as a clever wink to fans... If the Dawn of the show is such an important and pivotal piece then why did Arthur Dayne respec as a fury warrior and go dual-wield? 

And the Littlefinger glance in the crypts? You seriously believe that "Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna but Arthur was the one who was banging her" is more likely than "Rhaegar didn't kidnap and rape her, they eloped"? Sure, lets all just forget about every single other scrap of evidence including how they made it a point of nearly half the kingsguard including the lord commander be at the TOJ for some apparently random reason. Go ahead and keep living in a fantasy world where you can ignore everything but details that serve the purpose of your fan fiction. Anyone with any capability for rational thought will tell you that the kid is Rhaegar's. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck but you saw a random chicken feather on the ground next to it I guess it must be a chicken. That's your logic. It is silly and ignorant.

i want to kiss you <3 hahaha

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

9 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Yes--the show has not done well setting up the sword. They did bring up the title--Sword of the Morning. So, that's something.

Though they also made Valyrian steel just look like normal steel--it looks really cool in the books. While Dawn is milkglass and looks alive in light. I guess the CGI wasn't workable for either Valyrian steel or milk glass Dawn. Which is really a pity. 

But the books and World Book make no bones about the fact that Dawn is the only completely unique sword in the entire series. Or history of that series. And it goes back before Valyrian steel. And Martin in an SSM said that it currently waits at Starfall for the next Sword of the Morning.

In the books, the sword matters to a lot of people, including Ned, Jon, and Bran.

So far, all the show has done to tell us the sword matters has been done with conspicuous placement and camera angles. And give the name Sword of the Morning. But they took the time to do at least that. Until we get the next season or book, we don't know where they are going with this. But they took time on it.

I completely agree. Until we get more info, all we know is that something is wrong with the story Sansa has learned. But we do not know what is wrong with it. So, lots and lots of options.

My apologies--by narration I meant Bran and Bloodraven's "narration" of the scene they were watching. Not the dialogue between Ned and Arthur and the Unnamed Disposable Guy. I should have been clearer.

Bran and Bloodraven's narration was not about the valor of the kingsguard dying for their sworn duty or any of the other debates that readers have had for years on the forums.

That narration was all about the fight between Arthur and Ned's not being at all what Bran has heard. And Bran's horror and confusion about why he never knew that particular truth. Echoing Ned's convo with Bran in the books about Arthur and his sword and Ned's sadness over Arthur's death.

According to Martin and the World Book, yes. Only a worthy Dayne can wield Dawn. If there's no worthy Dayne, the sword waits at Starfall until the next Sword of the Morning "shall arise" (to use Martin's phrasing). So, it requires both blood and "worthiness."  

Absolutely. As the title of the thread says--"not confirmed." I think it very likely that Arthur is Jon's father, but there's no way the show has confirmed that. I also think it very likely that Rhaegar could be Jon's father--but the show hasn't confirmed that either.

That's very possible. It's just that of all the clues they could have shown Bran--the crowning, a shot of Rhaegar running off with Lyanna, Rhaegar playing his harp for her, the prophecy stuff--they chose none of that. They chose Arthur's death. Echoing Bran learning about Ned's sadness over Arthur in the books and Bran later wishing he'd asked why Ned was sad. 

I don't think it "proves" Arthur is Jon's father. But it strongly suggests that Arthur is very important to Ned. And so far, we don't know why in the show or in the books--why does this moment matter so much?

One option--Ned killed a man without knowing he was important, personally important. If Arthur were Jon's father, that would make Ned's not telling the truth about Arthur's death make sense. And explain why Bloodraven showed Bran that death scene instead of all the other moments he could have shown Bran to tell him the truth about Jon.

Well, far as the books and show have shown us, Valyrian steel swords can be sold or stolen or given to non-family members.

Dawn only goes to a worthy Dayne. Has done for thousands of years. It's completely unique in-world. 

I would like to accept that. But I just want to remind that, when Jon was about to hang Ser Alliser, Olly and the two other traitors, the Targaryen’s soundtrack was played… Someone had already mentioned that before…  SO if Jon is Arthur’s child, it will be the BIGGEST TROLL the planet will EVER know…

If you re-read the previous comments, someone also mentioned that when Cat was with Ned in the Godswood, in the first episode, they played Littlefinger’s soundtrack… So they troll people, but not at 100%. The soundtrack doesn’t lie… The sword? It’s alright… I can give it to you… But why did they play that soundtrack? Olly is a Targ? Alliser is a Targ? Please, think about that…

[ice_iridium]

1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

I would like to accept that. But I just want to remind that, when Jon was about to hang Ser Alliser, Olly and the two other traitors, the Targaryen’s soundtrack was played… Someone had already mentioned that before…  SO if Jon is Arthur’s child, it will be the BIGGEST TROLL the planet will EVER know…

 

If you re-read the previous comments, someone also mentioned that when Cat was with Ned in the Godswood, in the first episode, they played Littlefinger’s soundtrack… So they troll people, but not at 100%. The soundtrack doesn’t lie… The sword? It’s alright… I can give it to you… But why did they play that soundtrack? Olly is a Targ? Alliser is a Targ? Please, think about that…

 

They also played the Greyjoy track in the hanging scene. At 4:09.

Game of Thrones 6x03 : Jon Snow Passes Judgement on Ser Alliser & Olly

If the soundtrack doesn't lie, Jon is also a greyjoy ?

And it's confirmed that Alliser was a targ supporter.

 

We must do away with such one track thinking (R+L=J, I wouldn't have it any other way !) and offer up new vision on Jon's parentage.

The father was not confirmed in the show and no compelling evidence has been submitted against Sly Wren's findings.

 

Now, please, think about that : three ideas linked together in one logical statement.

"The Sword of the Morning, bearer of Dawn, will end the Long Night"

 

When I look back to Jon's arc story, this statement sounds perfectly right.

[Cantarella]

18 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

If you re-read the previous comments, someone also mentioned that when Cat was with Ned in the Godswood, in the first episode, they played Littlefinger’s soundtrack… So they troll people, but not at 100%

 

 

Thats a hint. Catelyn told Ned about Jon Arryns death, and then they (including show watchers) thought the murder was someone from house Lannister, becuz Lysa wrote Cat accusing the Lannisters of murderring her husband. The full truth of Jons death only revealed in season 4 by Lysa, that she killed her husband with poison at Littlefinger's behest. LF didnt kill Jon himself but he was the one who conspired to murder Jon, and manipulated Lysa to do it for him. Thats why they play the Littlefinger/house Baelish theme in that scene. 

And u re right. The soundtrack doesnt lie. Music played a very important role in this show. This article is very interesting to read: http://winteriscoming.net/2016/06/30/ramin-djawadi-talks-the-light-of-the-seven/

And for the love of seven, just ignore that stupid logic of RLJ deniers, dear. I actually LMAO ~ 5h when i read that "...bla bla bla ned put dawn at the foot of lyanna bed, and that sword is covered with arthur blood so jon is son of arthur bla bla bla....". Yeah, just focus on that bloody sword and ignore everything else people. Wait a minute, dawn was covered not only with arthurs blood but also blood of 3, 4 northern men he killed in the fight, so by that logic, jon actually has  3, or 4 fathers. Hells, no wonder why lyanna died after gave birth to him.

[Cantarella]

for the love of r"hllor, that is "my watch has ended" - the new theme of Jon Snow in season 6, it's NOT greyjoy theme and has nothing to do with the greyjoys, try harder

the camera focus on Jon Snow face, his actions, and the Targaryen theme played in that scene just because alliser is a Targ supporter, logic AF LMAO

[ice_iridium]

25 minutes ago, Cantarella said:

for the love of r"hllor, that is "my watch has ended" - the new theme of Jon Snow in season 6, not greyjoy theme has nothing to do with the greyjoy, try harder

the camera focus on Jon Snow face, his actions, and the Targaryen theme played in that scene just because alliser is a Targ supporter, logic AF LMAO

You're right. that was not the greyjoy theme.

But they still play greyjoy theme when Jon beheaded Janos Slynt or when Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark.
So lets not jump to conclusions. The soundtrack "evidence" is irrelevant as no greyjoy appeared in those previous scenes.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

1 hour ago, ice_iridium said:

You're right. that was not the greyjoy theme.

But they still play greyjoy theme when Jon beheaded Janos Slynt or when Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark.
So lets not jump to conclusions. The soundtrack "evidence" is irrelevant as no greyjoy appeared in those previous scenes.

How do you know that? how? 

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

1 hour ago, ice_iridium said:

You're right. that was not the greyjoy theme.

But they still play greyjoy theme when Jon beheaded Janos Slynt or when Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark.
So lets not jump to conclusions. The soundtrack "evidence" is irrelevant as no greyjoy appeared in those previous scenes.

How do you know that? how? 

[Lord Lyman]

6 hours ago, Cantarella said:

*CLAP CLAP CLAP*

my friend, let me give you an advice :dont waste your time on these RLJ-deniers. no matter what we/the showrunners/or even GRRM himself say, they will just follow their "logic"and will never accept the truth. i pity them, alot, poor souls

We are not deniers. We are non-confirmers. And you are wrong about the showrunners or GRRM. Their word is the authority. What they say goes and will be accepted.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

3 hours ago, ice_iridium said:

They also played the Greyjoy track in the hanging scene. At 4:09.

Game of Thrones 6x03 : Jon Snow Passes Judgement on Ser Alliser & Olly

If the soundtrack doesn't lie, Jon is also a greyjoy ?

And it's confirmed that Alliser was a targ supporter.

 

We must do away with such one track thinking (R+L=J, I wouldn't have it any other way !) and offer up new vision on Jon's parentage.

The father was not confirmed in the show and no compelling evidence has been submitted against Sly Wren's findings.

 

Now, please, think about that : three ideas linked together in one logical statement.

"The Sword of the Morning, bearer of Dawn, will end the Long Night"

 

When I look back to Jon's arc story, this statement sounds perfectly right.

Oooh great! A big supporter of Targaryens and yet, killed Jon Snow without knowing that he was a Targaryen…  And Jon Snow killed him without knowing that he was a Targ himself and that Alliser is a big supporter of his ancestors… And Alliser added that if he could do it over again knowing the consequences of his acts, he would do it… nice! That’s why they had done that… Alliser against Jon… A big Targaryen supporter against an unknown … Dayne??  (dull)

So you all are ignoring ‘A song of Ice and Fire’… And you only care about ‘A Song of Ice and Sun(dawn)’? 

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

3 hours ago, ice_iridium said:

They also played the Greyjoy track in the hanging scene. At 4:09.

Game of Thrones 6x03 : Jon Snow Passes Judgement on Ser Alliser & Olly

If the soundtrack doesn't lie, Jon is also a greyjoy ?

And it's confirmed that Alliser was a targ supporter.

 

We must do away with such one track thinking (R+L=J, I wouldn't have it any other way !) and offer up new vision on Jon's parentage.

The father was not confirmed in the show and no compelling evidence has been submitted against Sly Wren's findings.

 

Now, please, think about that : three ideas linked together in one logical statement.

"The Sword of the Morning, bearer of Dawn, will end the Long Night"

 

When I look back to Jon's arc story, this statement sounds perfectly right.

So Ned is a Baelish? And Catlyn? ... Because they played the house baelish theme song in the Godswoods... Ist episode Ist season... Ned and Cat were talking about Arryn's death... 

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

On 20/07/2016 at 11:39 AM, ice_iridium said:

 

The father was not confirmed in the show

If they did, we wouldn't be here arguing about that... Or  would we? Because I've seen a thread about whether Margaery is dead or not... 

"That's true though... We saw the high sparrow burning but we didn't see Margaery... Loras is dead... I wasn't expecting him to be alive anyways. But Margaery,  I doudt it..."

ok... ok...