The Amber Compendium of Norse Myth: Chapter I, Yggdrasil

[ravenous reader]

25 minutes ago, LmL said:

Hey guys I am sorry I haven't had time to read and particpate in this thread, I have been busy Nennymoaning and working on my next essay. But I came across something about Yggdrasil that might pertain to @ravenous reader's idead about whitewashing the weirwoods:

High (a scholar) continues that the norns that live by the holy well Urðarbrunnr each day take water from the well and mud from around it and pour it over Yggdrasil so that the branches of the ash do not rot away or decay. High provides more information about Urðarbrunnr, cites a stanza from Völuspá in support, and adds that dew falls from Yggdrasil to the earth, explaining that "this is what people call honeydew, and from it bees feed".[17]

The latter idea might pertain to amber perhaps? The honeydew?

Another random note on Yggdrasil = because it is an Ash tree, the idea of a flaming tree is already right there. Also, all the important spears in the story have ash wood shafts. 

I think that's actually @Pain killer Jane's idea -- where are you PK?    

There's also the 'ash' implicit in 'Ash - ai'.

25 minutes ago, LmL said:

OH - I just remembered something I thought of a long time ago. Remember how we were talking about trees growing up where the meteors land? Well, a rising mushroom cloud of ash and smoke grow at each impact, like a tree of ash. I made this association between the broken shaft of the ash wood spear planted in the Mountain's chest by Oberyn and a rising column of smoke and ash, but I also realized that it could be like an ash tree growing from the meteor. And the mushroom cloud idea translates to the mushrooms on Bloodraven's cheek and the fact that the weirwoodnet is interconnected through the root systems like fungus networks.

This might be something.

I love that LmL!  You are onto something...

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A Storm of Swords - Tyrion X

Prince Oberyn moved closer. "Say the name!" He put a foot on the Mountain's chest and raised the greatsword with both hands. Whether he intended to hack off Gregor's head or shove the point through his eyeslit was something Tyrion would never know.

Clegane's hand shot up and grabbed the Dornishman behind the knee. The Red Viper brought down the greatsword in a wild slash, but he was off-balance, and the edge did no more than put another dent in the Mountain's vambrace. Then the sword was forgotten as Gregor's hand tightened and twisted, yanking the Dornishman down on top of him. They wrestled in the dust and blood, the broken spear wobbling back and forth. Tyrion saw with horror that the Mountain had wrapped one huge arm around the prince, drawing him tight against his chest, like a lover.

The broken spear 'wobbles' -- for what it's worth, this is one of the passages which evoked the 'wobble' of the axial precession for me...

The others:

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VI

"Yes you can," the bastard girl said. "I know you can. Look how wide the path is."

"I don't want to look." The world seemed to be spinning around her, mountain and sky and mules, whirling like a child's top. Catelyn closed her eyes to steady her ragged breathing.

"I'll come back for you," Mya said. "Don't move, my lady."

 

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

"Renly has thirty men in his personal guard, the rest even fewer. It is not enough, even if I could be certain that all of them will choose to give me their allegiance. I must have the gold cloaks. The City Watch is two thousand strong, sworn to defend the castle, the city, and the king's peace."

"Ah, but when the queen proclaims one king and the Hand another, whose peace do they protect?" Lord Petyr flicked at the dagger with his finger, setting it spinning in place. Round and round it went, wobbling as it turned. When at last it slowed to a stop, the blade pointed at Littlefinger. "Why, there's your answer," he said, smiling. "They follow the man who pays them." He leaned back and looked Ned full in the face, his grey-green eyes bright with mockery. "You wear your honor like a suit of armor, Stark. You think it keeps you safe, but all it does is weigh you down and make it hard for you to move. Look at you now. You know why you summoned me here. You know what you want to ask me to do. You know it has to be done … but it's not honorable, so the words stick in your throat."

 

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IX

"Let me go!" Dany twisted from his grasp. The world seemed to slow as she cleared the parapet. When she landed in the pit she lost a sandal. Running, she could feel the sand between her toes, hot and rough. Ser Barristan was calling after her. Strong Belwas was still vomiting. She ran faster.

The spearmen were running too. Some were rushing toward the dragon, spears in hand. Others were rushing away, throwing down their weapons as they fled. The hero was jerking on the sand, the bright blood pouring from the ragged stump of his shoulder. His spear remained in Drogon's back, wobbling as the dragon beat his wings. Smoke rose from the wound. As the other spears closed in, the dragon spat fire, bathing two men in black flame. His tail lashed sideways and caught the pitmaster creeping up behind him, breaking him in two. Another attacker stabbed at his eyes until the dragon caught him in his jaws and tore his belly out. The Meereenese were screaming, cursing, howling. Dany could hear someone pounding after her. "Drogon," she screamed. "Drogon."

 

[LmL]

23 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

What about a sea of grass, like the Dothraki Sea? 

Yes, it's often called a green gras sea. Azor Ahai is a hero reborn in the sea, according to Mel by way of Stannis, and Dany is reborn in the Dothraki green see. 

Also, the Jade See - it's a green see too. There are a ton of cool metaphors when Dany goes to Qarth and sails the Jade See. 

[Daendrew]

On 1/15/2017 at 9:28 PM, Isobel Harper said:

Do you have a link for the podcast?  I was just looking for mythology podcasts the other day!  I'd love to listen to it.  

Neil Gaiman is coming out with a book on Norse Mythology this Feb. 

[Bluetiger]

Btw, @LmL, I wonder what this means:

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It was not Ser Kevan who came for him that morning, but Ser Addam Marbrand with a dozen gold cloaks. Tyrion had broken his fast on boiled eggs, burned bacon, and fried bread, and dressed in his finest. "Ser Addam," he said. "I had thought my father might send the Kingsguard to escort me to trial. I am still a member of the royal family, am I not?"

He's the Last Hero, solar figure here, right? Curious that Last Hero has burning tree as his sigil and 'brand' in his surname.

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"Dondarrion's dead," said Strongboar. "The Mountain drove a knife through his eye, we have men with us who saw it."

"That's one tale," said Addam Marbrand. "Others will tell you that Lord Beric can't be killed."

And here he speaks of resurrection and the undead... Just like Last Hero should according to your 'Skinchanger zombies' series...

[LmL]

1 minute ago, ravenous reader said:

I think that's actually @Pain killer Jane's idea -- where are you PK?    

There's also the 'ash' implicit in 'Ash - ai'.

I love that LmL!  You are onto something...

The broken spear 'wobbles' -- for what it's worth, this is one of the passages which evoked the 'wobble' of the axial precession for me...

The others:

 

 

 

Lord Wobblecheeks!! He must be a clue! LOL. 

Kidding aside, good find and there are more of these. 

Tyrion in the wine cask:

A palanquin fit for a man of my stature , he thought as they hammered shut the lid. He could hear voices shouting as he was hoisted up. Every bounce cracked his head against the bottom of the cask. The world went round and round as the cask rolled downward, then stopped with a crash that made him want to scream. Another cask slammed into his, and Tyrion bit his tongue.

Thing is, Tyrion's world could be the moon here, as Tyrion is a dragon person that comes from the moon. This would then depict the moon crashing and being crashed into. It could just be the world, and the other cask the meteor slamming into it.

Here is Bran inside Hodor on the hill by Bloodraven's cave:

Sixty yards . Bran craned himself sideways to better see the cave. Then he saw something else. “A fire!” In the little cleft between the weirwood trees was a flickering glow, a ruddy light calling through the gathering gloom. “Look, someone—”

Hodor screamed. He twisted, stumbled, fell. Bran felt the world slide sideways as the big stableboy spun violently around. A jarring impact drove the breath from him. His mouth was full of blood and Hodor was thrashing and rolling, crushing the crippled boy beneath him. Something has hold of his leg . For half a heartbeat Bran thought maybe a root had gotten tangled round his ankle (tree pulling down the moon / burning Brand) … until the root moved. A hand , he saw, as the rest of the wight came bursting from beneath the snow. Hodor kicked at it, slamming a snow-covered heel full into the thing’s face, but the dead man did not even seem to feel it. Then the two of them were grappling, punching and clawing at each other, sliding down the hill. Snow filled Bran’s mouth and nose as they rolled over, but in a half a heartbeat he was rolling up again. Something slammed against his head, a rock or a chunk of ice or a dead man’s fist, he could not tell, and he found himself out of his basket, sprawled across the hillside, spitting snow, his gloved hand full of hair that he’d torn from Hodor’s head. (The stolen fire of the gods?) All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow. Two, three, four . Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars.

 

[LmL]

1 minute ago, Blue Tiger said:

Btw, @LmL, I wonder what this means:

He's the Last Hero, solar figure here, right? Curious that Last Hero has burning tree as his sigil and 'brand' in his surname.

Yeah, curious as in not curious. You're gong to make me go look up that quote at Rivverun now... but yeah, this is a good one, the burning ash tree named BRANd as the LH, and coming for a disgraced Azor Ahai figure, Tyrion. Remember how I speculated AA might have been humbled and made to go fight the Others out of atonement or repentance? Here you go. 

1 minute ago, Blue Tiger said:

And here he speaks of resurrection and the undead... Just like Last Hero should according to your 'Skinchanger zombies' series...

That's a great find, I missed that one. Cheers. Hat tips for you. 

Here are a couple more Marbrand quotes:

This near to King’s Landing, the kingsroad was as safe as any road could be in such times, yet Jaime sent Marbrand and his outriders ahead to scout. “Robb Stark took me unawares in the Whispering Wood,” he said. “That will never happen again.” “You have my word on it.” Marbrand seemed visibly relieved to be ahorse again, wearing the smoke-grey cloak of his own House instead of the gold wool of the City Watch. “If any foe should come within a dozen leagues, you will know of them beforehand.”

Now that Ser Burning Ash Tree is ahorse again, he will now in advance of things that happen. He's wearing the smoky cloaks of the fire sorcerers who emerge from burning wood which I highlighted at the end of the Grey King and the Sea Dragon episode.

“I led a search myself, at Lord Tywin’s command,” offered Addam Marbrand as he boned his fish, “but I found no more than Bywater had before me. The boy was last seen ahorse, when the press of the mob broke the line of gold cloaks. Afterward … well, his palfrey was found, but not the rider. Most like they pulled him down and slew him. But if that’s so, where is his body? The mob let the other corpses lie, why not his?”

Sea dragon bones = weirwood. Addam is separating the weirwood form the sea dragon, or something.

“Storming the walls will be a bloody business,” said Addam Marbrand. “I propose we wait for a moonless night and send a dozen picked men across the river in a boat with muffled oars. They can scale the walls with ropes and grapnels, and open the gates from the inside. I will lead them, (oh oh oh!) if the council wishes.”

This is the good one, and a companion to the time when he comes with 12 goldcloaks to get Tyrion. These 12 are crossin gthe river - coming back from the dead, or going over to the realm of the dead to perform a mission. There is talk of a bloody storm and a moonless night, the Long Night. Pretty great stuff.
 

[ravenous reader]

33 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

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"Dondarrion's dead," said Strongboar. "The Mountain drove a knife through his eye, we have men with us who saw it."

"That's one tale," said Addam Marbrand. "Others will tell you that Lord Beric can't be killed."

And here he speaks of resurrection and the undead... Just like Last Hero should according to your 'Skinchanger zombies' series...

'Others will tell you...' lol

[LmL]

9 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

'Others will tell you...' lol

Indeed! George is pretty clever with his double entendres with the the word "others." He says "the others" plenty of times when it is not a double meaning so you don't get too suspicious. But there are countless times like this when it's just screaming at you. 

This is a good one for my skinchanger zombies idea, Azor Ahai the undead greenseer whom the Others cannot kill. 

[ravenous reader]

35 minutes ago, LmL said:

Lord Wobblecheeks!! He must be a clue! LOL. 

  'Lord Wobblecheeks'...there's such a character?!

Quote

Kidding aside, good find and there are more of these. 

Tyrion in the wine cask:

A palanquin fit for a man of my stature , he thought as they hammered shut the lid. He could hear voices shouting as he was hoisted up. Every bounce cracked his head against the bottom of the cask. The world went round and round as the cask rolled downward, then stopped with a crash that made him want to scream. Another cask slammed into his, and Tyrion bit his tongue.

Thing is, Tyrion's world could be the moon here, as Tyrion is a dragon person that comes from the moon. This would then depict the moon crashing and being crashed into. It could just be the world, and the other cask the meteor slamming into it.

That's a good one.  It reminds me of @Cowboy Dan's find of Mance's turtle being bombarded by Jon's casks (filled with gravel and frozen water...very comet-composition like) as an analogy for meteor impact.  In the Tyrion example, I think 'the world going round and round' must signify the earth, so Tyrion is the incubating hatchling underground (from the Lannister side, he's descended from Garth the Green, isn't he; and from the Targ side the dragons; so he's a green dragon waiting to hatch forth from the barrel).  That makes the other cask slamming into him the meteor.

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Here is Bran inside Hodor on the hill by Bloodraven's cave:

Sixty yards . Bran craned himself sideways to better see the cave. Then he saw something else. “A fire!” In the little cleft between the weirwood trees was a flickering glow, a ruddy light calling through the gathering gloom. “Look, someone—”

Hodor screamed. He twisted, stumbled, fell. Bran felt the world slide sideways as the big stableboy spun violently around. A jarring impact drove the breath from him. His mouth was full of blood and Hodor was thrashing and rolling, crushing the crippled boy beneath him.

 

'Spinning violently...thrashing and rolling' -- doesn't sound like the earth's axis is in order..!

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Something has hold of his leg . For half a heartbeat Bran thought maybe a root had gotten tangled round his ankle (tree pulling down the moon / burning Brand) …

Nice!

Quote

until the root moved. A hand , he saw, as the rest of the wight came bursting from beneath the snow. Hodor kicked at it, slamming a snow-covered heel full into the thing’s face, but the dead man did not even seem to feel it. Then the two of them were grappling, punching and clawing at each other, sliding down the hill. Snow filled Bran’s mouth and nose as they rolled over, but in a half a heartbeat he was rolling up again. Something slammed against his head, a rock or a chunk of ice or a dead man’s fist, he could not tell, and he found himself out of his basket, sprawled across the hillside,

Being spilled from the basket, or regurgitated from a barrel, is a metaphor for (re)birth.  I wanted to tell you that yesterday, as well, when you asked the question about what Jon breaking the ice on his coat meant -- I think it's a symbol of hatching out of the egg (the same thing when he throws the pillow against the wall in response to the raven landing on his chest, bursting the pillow and releasing a flurry of feathers like so many ice crystals).

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spitting snow, his gloved hand full of hair that he’d torn from Hodor’s head. (The stolen fire of the gods?)

Ooh, that's good -- reminds me of our Lion's-mane discussion and Dany appropriating the hrakkar pelt.  

Quote

All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow. Two, three, four . Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars.

 

Very evocative.

12 minutes ago, LmL said:

Indeed! George is pretty clever with his double entendres with the the word "others." He says "the others" plenty of times when it is not a double meaning so you don't get too suspicious. But there are countless times like this when it's just screaming at you. 

This is a good one for my skinchanger zombies idea, Azor Ahai the undead greenseer whom the Others cannot kill. 

What's more, the Others know he can't be killed, since they've had experience with him (i.e. the 'Last Hero' archetype)-- hence why they check out Waymar's blood and sword in the Prologue...!  

[Bluetiger]

1 minute ago, ravenous reader said:

  'Lord Wobblecheeks'...there's such a character?!

'There were more, near as mad or worse: Lord Wobblecheeks, the Drunken Conqueror, the Beastmaster, Pudding Face, the Rabbit, the Charioteer, the Perfumed Hero. Some had twenty soldiers, some two hundred or two thousand, all slaves they had trained and equipped themselves. Every one was wealthy, every one was arrogant, and every one was a captain and commander, answerable to no one but Yurkhaz zo Yunzak, disdainful of mere sellswords, and prone to squabbles over precedence that were as endless as they were incomprehensible.'

[ravenous reader]

1 minute ago, Blue Tiger said:

'There were more, near as mad or worse: Lord Wobblecheeks, the Drunken Conqueror, the Beastmaster, Pudding Face, the Rabbit, the Charioteer, the Perfumed Hero. Some had twenty soldiers, some two hundred or two thousand, all slaves they had trained and equipped themselves. Every one was wealthy, every one was arrogant, and every one was a captain and commander, answerable to no one but Yurkhaz zo Yunzak, disdainful of mere sellswords, and prone to squabbles over precedence that were as endless as they were incomprehensible.'

Thanks for the quote; and thanks to @LmL too -- I notice Lucifer has reformed himself of his laziness and is providing a lot of quotes for our enjoyment!  

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

I think that's actually @Pain killer Jane's idea -- where are you PK?    

 I am right here. Been stalking the thread. 

1 hour ago, LmL said:

Hey guys I am sorry I haven't had time to read and particpate in this thread, I have been busy Nennymoaning and working on my next essay. But I came across something about Yggdrasil that might pertain to @ravenous reader's idead about whitewashing the weirwoods:

High (a scholar) continues that the norns that live by the holy well Urðarbrunnr each day take water from the well and mud from around it and pour it over Yggdrasil so that the branches of the ash do not rot away or decay. High provides more information about Urðarbrunnr, cites a stanza from Völuspá in support, and adds that dew falls from Yggdrasil to the earth, explaining that "this is what people call honeydew, and from it bees feed".[17]

The latter idea might pertain to amber perhaps? The honeydew?

That is awesome to see that Yggy is cared for in such a way. 

The thing that we know as honeydew is the secretion of insects that eat the sap of the trees and Pine Honey is made from bees taking those secretion and making honey out of it.

While Yggy does have honey, Greek mythology had Meliae (ash tree nymphs) that used it from their own trees to nurse Zeus.

I think the amber-honey connection is the Propolis or bee glue, a type of resin made by honeybees. While they use it for building and stuff, they also use it to mummify creatures that may wonder into their hives and die from being stung to death. 

@ravenous reader remember we spoke on the significance of Ellyn Ever-Sweet going to the mountain hive and pledging to the King of Bees (buzzing of bees can be described as whispering so the King of Bees was probably a greenseer) to forever care for his children. Ellyn Ever-Sweet should be considered an immortal due to this pact. So I wonder if the Propolis made via the material from the Weirwood tree is what allowed her to become as such. Amber trapping insects and preserving them is akin to the usage of Propolis for mummifying dead animals. 

Oh BTW hate to go off topic here but I found something recently @LmL

Once I dreamed of flying, she thought, and now I've flown, and dream of stealing eggs. That made her laugh. "Men are mad and gods are madder," she told the grass, and the grass murmured its agreement.

- Dany X, aDwD

Sounds very much like Azhor Ahai stealing the NissaNissa egg/moon. And sounds like Bran too with his flying dreams. 

 

  

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, Daendrew said:

Neil Gaiman is coming out with a book on Norse Mythology this Feb. 

His American Gods is pretty good on Norse Mythology. 

[Bluetiger]

I was wondering what this means:

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Davos had always been fond of this city, since first he'd come here as a cabin boy on Cobblecat. Though small compared to Oldtown and King's Landing, it was clean and well-ordered, with wide straight cobbled streets that made it easy for a man to find his way. The houses were built of whitewashed stone, with steeply pitched roofs of dark grey slate. Roro Uhoris, the Cobblecat's cranky old master, used to claim that he could tell one port from another just by the way they smelled. Cities were like women, he insisted; each one had its own unique scent. Oldtown was as flowery as a perfumed dowager. Lannisport was a milkmaid, fresh and earthy, with woodsmoke in her hair. King's Landing reeked like some unwashed whore. But White Harbor's scent was sharp and salty, and a little fishy too. "She smells the way a mermaid ought to smell," Roro said. "She smells of the sea."

Manderlys are extremely interesting when it comes to symbolism - they're green men (directly connected to the Sacred Order of Green Men), but they're mermen as well... and Northmen who own white city (ice moon symbolism)... and their castle was Dunstonebury...

[LmL]

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

39 minutes ago, LmL said:

Lord Wobblecheeks!! He must be a clue! LOL. 

  'Lord Wobblecheeks'...there's such a character?!

It's a derogatory nickname for Manderly, yes. 

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Quote

Kidding aside, good find and there are more of these. 

Tyrion in the wine cask:

A palanquin fit for a man of my stature , he thought as they hammered shut the lid. He could hear voices shouting as he was hoisted up. Every bounce cracked his head against the bottom of the cask. The world went round and round as the cask rolled downward, then stopped with a crash that made him want to scream. Another cask slammed into his, and Tyrion bit his tongue.

Thing is, Tyrion's world could be the moon here, as Tyrion is a dragon person that comes from the moon. This would then depict the moon crashing and being crashed into. It could just be the world, and the other cask the meteor slamming into it.

That's a good one.  It reminds me of @Cowboy Dan's find of Mance's turtle being bombarded by Jon's casks (filled with gravel and frozen water...very comet-composition like) as an analogy for meteor impact.  In the Tyrion example, I think 'the world going round and round' must signify the earth, so Tyrion is the incubating hatchling underground (from the Lannister side, he's descended from Garth the Green, isn't he; and from the Targ side the dragons; so he's a green dragon waiting to hatch forth from the barrel).  That makes the other cask slamming into him the meteor.

Yes, that makes sense - a lion and a dragon could be implying the sun and the comet, but since Lannisters have green eyes and descend from garth... yes, a green earth dragon waiting to hatch from a mountain (Casterly) like Sun Wukong hatching from an egg at the top of his mountain (and later being trapped under one). 

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

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Here is Bran inside Hodor on the hill by Bloodraven's cave:

Sixty yards . Bran craned himself sideways to better see the cave. Then he saw something else. “A fire!” In the little cleft between the weirwood trees was a flickering glow, a ruddy light calling through the gathering gloom. “Look, someone—”

Hodor screamed. He twisted, stumbled, fell. Bran felt the world slide sideways as the big stableboy spun violently around. A jarring impact drove the breath from him. His mouth was full of blood and Hodor was thrashing and rolling, crushing the crippled boy beneath him.

 

'Spinning violently...thrashing and rolling' -- doesn't sound like the earth's axis is in order..!

No, definitely not. Hodor might be an Atlas figure, a giant who holds up the world. He smells of the stables, bathes in the mud pools, very earthy guy all around...

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

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Something has hold of his leg . For half a heartbeat Bran thought maybe a root had gotten tangled round his ankle (tree pulling down the moon / burning Brand) …

Nice!

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Quote

until the root moved. A hand , he saw, as the rest of the wight came bursting from beneath the snow. Hodor kicked at it, slamming a snow-covered heel full into the thing’s face, but the dead man did not even seem to feel it. Then the two of them were grappling, punching and clawing at each other, sliding down the hill. Snow filled Bran’s mouth and nose as they rolled over, but in a half a heartbeat he was rolling up again. Something slammed against his head, a rock or a chunk of ice or a dead man’s fist, he could not tell, and he found himself out of his basket, sprawled across the hillside,

Being spilled from the basket, or regurgitated from a barrel, is a metaphor for (re)birth.  I wanted to tell you that yesterday, as well, when you asked the question about what Jon breaking the ice on his coat meant -- I think it's a symbol of hatching out of the egg (the same thing when he throws the pillow against the wall in response to the raven landing on his chest, bursting the pillow and releasing a flurry of feathers like so many ice crystals).

This could be a reference to the Wall then, which may well be black stone underneath. Cracking the ice off of his black cloak would be akin to ridding the Wall of ice - and ages ago, when I was thinking more about the ice moon and what should happen to it, my guess was that it should lose its icy crust. Ice moons like Europa are mostly rock, but are covered in a global ocean and a global ice crust layer. My theory about ice and fire moon is that they govern magic on the planet. Fire moon was blackened, came to earth, so fire magic is shadowed and wrapped up with greenseers and burning trees and the ocean and whatnot. The ice moon ate a fire moon meteor, so it is now burning ice. What we might need to do is knock the ice off that ice moon so we just have a rocky moon - no ice, no fire, no magic, just a normal moon so Planetos can eventually become like earth. 

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

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spitting snow, his gloved hand full of hair that he’d torn from Hodor’s head. (The stolen fire of the gods?)

Ooh, that's good -- reminds me of our Lion's-mane discussion and Dany appropriating the hrakkar pelt.  

Just noticed it a few minutes ago

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Quote

All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow. Two, three, four . Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars.

 

Very evocative.

'Ragged' and 'rags' are keywords we need to research, because they tie into the scarecrow idea and the patchwork fool's cloak and the skinchanging ideas. 

5 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

16 minutes ago, LmL said:

Indeed! George is pretty clever with his double entendres with the the word "others." He says "the others" plenty of times when it is not a double meaning so you don't get too suspicious. But there are countless times like this when it's just screaming at you. 

This is a good one for my skinchanger zombies idea, Azor Ahai the undead greenseer whom the Others cannot kill. 

What's more, the Others know he can't be killed, since they've had experience with him (i.e. the 'Last Hero' archetype)-- hence why they check out Waymar's blood and sword in the Prologue...!  

Yes, it does jibe with the idea of the Others being cautious and checking out Waymar to make sure he isn't the unkillable Azor Ahai.  

Now, my nennymoaning? Dragonglass see? cough cough, polite cough?

[Pain killer Jane]

49 minutes ago, LmL said:

Lord Wobblecheeks!! He must be a clue! LOL. 

Kidding aside, good find and there are more of these. 

Tyrion in the wine cask:

A palanquin fit for a man of my stature , he thought as they hammered shut the lid. He could hear voices shouting as he was hoisted up. Every bounce cracked his head against the bottom of the cask. The world went round and round as the cask rolled downward, then stopped with a crash that made him want to scream. Another cask slammed into his, and Tyrion bit his tongue.

Thing is, Tyrion's world could be the moon here, as Tyrion is a dragon person that comes from the moon. This would then depict the moon crashing and being crashed into. It could just be the world, and the other cask the meteor slamming into it.

Here is Bran inside Hodor on the hill by Bloodraven's cave:

Sixty yards . Bran craned himself sideways to better see the cave. Then he saw something else. “A fire!” In the little cleft between the weirwood trees was a flickering glow, a ruddy light calling through the gathering gloom. “Look, someone—”

Hodor screamed. He twisted, stumbled, fell. Bran felt the world slide sideways as the big stableboy spun violently around. A jarring impact drove the breath from him. His mouth was full of blood and Hodor was thrashing and rolling, crushing the crippled boy beneath him. Something has hold of his leg . For half a heartbeat Bran thought maybe a root had gotten tangled round his ankle (tree pulling down the moon / burning Brand) … until the root moved. A hand , he saw, as the rest of the wight came bursting from beneath the snow. Hodor kicked at it, slamming a snow-covered heel full into the thing’s face, but the dead man did not even seem to feel it. Then the two of them were grappling, punching and clawing at each other, sliding down the hill. Snow filled Bran’s mouth and nose as they rolled over, but in a half a heartbeat he was rolling up again. Something slammed against his head, a rock or a chunk of ice or a dead man’s fist, he could not tell, and he found himself out of his basket, sprawled across the hillside, spitting snow, his gloved hand full of hair that he’d torn from Hodor’s head. (The stolen fire of the gods?) All around him, wights were rising from beneath the snow. Two, three, four . Bran lost count. They surged up violently amidst sudden clouds of snow. Some wore black cloaks, some ragged skins, some nothing. All of them had pale flesh and black hands. Their eyes glowed like pale blue stars.

 

All of this makes me think of the Cutting of the Elm event of 1188, it marked the beginning of war between France and England. Which is alluded to as the cause of the war between the Children and the First men. 

[LmL]

2 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

I was wondering what this means:

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Davos had always been fond of this city, since first he'd come here as a cabin boy on Cobblecat. Though small compared to Oldtown and King's Landing, it was clean and well-ordered, with wide straight cobbled streets that made it easy for a man to find his way. The houses were built of whitewashed stone, with steeply pitched roofs of dark grey slate. Roro Uhoris, the Cobblecat's cranky old master, used to claim that he could tell one port from another just by the way they smelled. Cities were like women, he insisted; each one had its own unique scent. Oldtown was as flowery as a perfumed dowager. Lannisport was a milkmaid, fresh and earthy, with woodsmoke in her hair. King's Landing reeked like some unwashed whore. But White Harbor's scent was sharp and salty, and a little fishy too. "She smells the way a mermaid ought to smell," Roro said. "She smells of the sea."

Manderlys are extremely interesting when it comes to symbolism - they're green men (directly connected to the Sacred Order of Green Men), but they're mermen as well... and Northmen who own white city (ice moon symbolism)... and their castle was Dunstonebury...

Oh, nice one for team whitewash.  White Harbor is an ice moon symbol - it is harboring a black stone in its heart though, the Wolf's Den. Manderly is a Grey King / Drowned God figure, and look - whitewashed stone.  Very nice. And yes, the green man identity matches well with the green sea = green see interpretation, doesn't it?

[Bluetiger]

Speaking of amber... this passage is interesting:

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The trickle he started soon swelled to a flood. Trader captains brought lace from Myr, chests of saffron from Yi Ti, amber and dragonglass out of Asshai. Merchants offered bags of coin, silversmiths rings and chains. Pipers piped for her, tumblers tumbled, and jugglers juggled, while dyers draped her in colors she had never known existed. A pair of Jogos Nhai presented her with one of their striped zorses, black and white and fierce. A widow brought the dried corpse of her husband, covered with a crust of silvered leaves; such remnants were believed to have great power, especially if the deceased had been a sorcerer, as this one had. And the Tourmaline Brotherhood pressed on her a crown wrought in the shape of a three-headed dragon; the coils were yellow gold, the wings silver, the heads carved from jade, ivory, and onyx.

I get why place like Asshai might have loads of obsidian.. but amber? It sounds like the last place where trees would grow... On the other hand, it takes millions of years to form amber, so maybe it's nothing.

And here we get amber + obsidian set as well:

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"Something my wife said once." Davos drummed his shortened fingers against the tabletop. The first time he had seen the Wall he had been younger than Devan, serving aboard the Cobblecat under Roro Uhoris, a Tyroshi known up and down the narrow sea as the Blind Bastard, though he was neither blind nor baseborn. Roro had sailed past Skagos into the Shivering Sea, visiting a hundred little coves that had never seen a trading ship before. He brought steel; swords, axes, helms, good chainmail hauberks, to trade for furs, ivory, amber, and obsidian. When the Cobblecat turned back south her holds were stuffed, but in the Bay of Seals three black galleys came out to herd her into Eastwatch. They lost their cargo and the Bastard lost his head, for the crime of trading weapons to the wildlings.

 standard Last Hero's companion pack?

[LmL]

13 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Oh BTW hate to go off topic here but I found something recently @LmL

Once I dreamed of flying, she thought, and now I've flown, and dream of stealing eggs. That made her laugh. "Men are mad and gods are madder," she told the grass, and the grass murmured its agreement.

- Dany X, aDwD

Sounds very much like Azhor Ahai stealing the NissaNissa egg/moon. And sounds like Bran too with his flying dreams. 

 

Yeah, super nice one. I think I noticed that a long time ago, but it's been a long time so who knows. Thanks for pointing that out - it fits with Dany as an Azor Ahai person at this point, an analog to the reborn red comet. She's ready to reeach out and touch the moon. @ravenous reader and I have an ongoing convo about her deep impact Drogon theory and related ideas about the Stallion Who Mounts the World having something to do with Bran as well as Drogon and Dany. The greenseer riding Yggdrasil (weirwoodnet) is riding Odin's horse, the stallion who mounts the world and the universe. That's Bran. 

[LmL]

6 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

All of this makes me think of the Cutting of the Elm event of 1188, it marked the beginning of war between France and England. Which is alluded to as the cause of the war between the Children and the First men. 

Care to explain?