Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 20 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: Jesus fuck you haven't been reading carefully then. From the Week 9 thread when the Belichick letter first came up: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/144181-nfl-2016-week-9-once-you-go-dak-you-never-go-back/&do=findComment&comment=7801277 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/144181-nfl-2016-week-9-once-you-go-dak-you-never-go-back/&do=findComment&comment=7798831 Ah, my apologies. Now that you brought those posts up, I do remember reading them the first time out. Apologies also for beating a dead horse, but that is kind of my default position on the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 24 minutes ago, dbunting said: Wow, it's amazing how far off track this thread can go when there are no actual games to dissect! It's because the Pats hate chorus has fresh material to squawk about. And it's pretty good material. I'd probably be pretty merciless about it if there was some Trump connection that suits my sportshate. But the lack of creativity and the mind-numbing repetition does grate, even when I accept that Brady, Belichick, and Kraft deserve the criticism. But yeah, like I said before... Gonna be a long two weeks. Always is for the Super Bowl (did you know Jerome Betty's is from Detroit?), but it's probably worse this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 18 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said: At 30 Deshaun Watson may be available by trading into the low 20's. I will be most wroth if they acquire that young man, I'm rather fond of him. 17 hours ago, JonSnow4President said: With two years to develop, that's not a bad range at all. Prospects at that level generally are only missing a piece or two from your top prospects, and could be coached up. Dak is good in large part to the Qb coaching. I'd imagine Romo was as well. The pats got Jimmy G in the second and he certainly seems to be capable. Then you have the ultra stars that had flags in the draft for various reasons (Brady, Wilson, Bree's), although you probably won't strike that platinum vein. I swear 90% of fans don't give a thought at how important development is to making your draft picks work. Both points are true but I think we'll go with more secondary help for our first round pick. Who knows, we'll probably pick another effing LB. Though it all depends on what's available. The Steelers are not apt to making trade moves in the first round. They just accept their position and draft from it. I'd like to know if/when they ever traded/moved up in the first round, historically. I can't recall it ever happening. 15 hours ago, Rockroi said: You just described the entire Patriots receiving corps. True, but we would fail to utilize those guys like the Pats do. We'd probably put them on the practice squad, let them go, and then they flourish in a place like NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said: It's because the Pats hate chorus has fresh material to squawk about. And it's pretty good material. I'd probably be pretty merciless about it if there was some Trump connection that suits my sportshate. But the lack of creativity and the mind-numbing repetition does grate, even when I accept that Brady, Belichick, and Kraft deserve the criticism. But yeah, like I said before... Gonna be a long two weeks. Always is for the Super Bowl (did you know Jerome Betty's is from Detroit?), but it's probably worse this year. Meh... At the end of the day, the Pats are going to the Superbowl. This is all distraction. Rex Ryan, Nick Mangold, John Harbaugh, Richie Incognito (because of course that mountain of used condoms and bleach would endorse Trump) all endorsed Trump. Who cares? Its their choice to make bad decisions. The media is not particularly attached to this story as much as I thought they would be. There will be more questions, but if there is one team that can deflect this its this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 15 minutes ago, Rockroi said: There will be more questions, but if there is one team that can deflect this its this one. Yeah, they are rather adept at that. And to be fair, it's the smart move. Any definitive answer here is likely to piss off roughly 50% of your fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 6 hours ago, DanteGabriel said: The Peter King theory is that Roethlisberger is talking retirement to send a shot across the team's bow. Maybe he's tired of trotting out the same doomed defensive game plan and stupid play calls against the Patriots? Looking that clueless and flat in a conference championship game has to sting. King also thought he was frustrated with Tomlin's failure over a number of years to get Brown to smarten up. And I don't know how much stock to put in this, but there's been some drama over reporting on AB since the game. An NFL Network report said that Brown had been pouting after DeAngelo Williams scored in the AFC Championship game, and that Roethlisberger had to settle him down afterward. The report went on that the Steelers have been concerned for a while that Brown is too interested in his own stats (shocking for a wide receiver, I know). Now, once you get past the amazing idea of "Pig" Ben Roethlisberger being some kind elder statesman trying to keep the kids in line, there is a lot to dig into with the NFL Network report, which was, in any case, partially inaccurate. First, Tomlin never denied the pouting or concern over AB's selfishness. Second, the fact that it came from a league-owned news organization is fascinating. It makes people think that the Steelers used the NFL Network reporter to plant a story about AB misbehaving to increase their leverage as he comes to the end of his contract (having watched many Boston Globe hatchet jobs on local sports figures myself, I find that charge all too easy to believe). I'll be curious to see how all this shakes out in time, especially if it brings us closer to Facebook Live advertising partner Antonio Brown getting Bill Belichick into a car for some Real Talk. I missed this when I responded to the others. I can see merit to it. Yeah, I'd be pissed too with the defensive gameplan we came out with. The Texans showed a somewhat effective model by playing man to man in the divisional round and we completely ignored it and went to zone. We started getting whooped in zone and I saw no adjustments made to correct it throughout the game. It was almost like Tomlin and Butler decided to wait out the storm and hope that something would change. Well, nothing changed. That has to be infuriating as you see the game get away from you because the defense couldn't even execute the piss-poor gameplan they went out with. As for Brown, I first saw this report and balked at it. They showed the D-Will TD and made a fuss about AB putting his arms up. It appeared to me that he was merely signaling a TD. Then Ben and Tomlin came out and did nothing to extinguish that fire so that leads me to believe that there is something to this story. AB comes off as your typical showy WR. Maybe a milder version of on-field Terrell Owens. He's been consistently doing endzone celebrations that cost the team 15 yards. They never affect the outcome of the game but you have to think that if he keeps repeating this behavior, he does not have much regard for the team, but cares more about his brand. Hey, it works for him as you see him in a lot of commercials, GREAT, but if you're going to be pissy about D-Will scoring a couple yard TD in the most important game of the season, you're just being a brat. The postgame Facebook thing in the locker room was absolutely embarrassing. I still think we'll sign him cause we would take a serious hit at WR if he left, and Ben needs targets like him with his years in the league waning. I know the Steelers re-did his contract before the year started with a promise to do a long-term deal at season's end, but I'm sure that could be changed if need be. We'll see what happens. I'll throw my 2 cents in with the Belichick talk. I could really care less who the guy is or is not friends with. He's a great coach that has done nothing but win over the past 16 years. I think his "boring" personality + always winning super bowls just makes people jealous. I'd sure as hell love to have a coach like him for our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 23 minutes ago, Rockroi said: Meh... At the end of the day, the Pats are going to the Superbowl. This is all distraction. Rex Ryan, Nick Mangold, John Harbaugh, Richie Incognito (because of course that mountain of used condoms and bleach would endorse Trump) all endorsed Trump. Who cares? Its their choice to make bad decisions. The media is not particularly attached to this story as much as I thought they would be. There will be more questions, but if there is one team that can deflect this its this one. I know you don't, but I actually do care. A big chunk of the NFL happily endorsing Trump makes me more convinced that dropping the NFL was the moral thing to do. This isn't the case with, say, the NBA, and the NBA has crazy other problems mind you - but that's not one of them. Sports aren't just about sports any more, as much as we'd love to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 16 hours ago, Rockroi said: Oh, almost forgot: The Miami Dolphins are cheating cheaters who cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockroi Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Kalbear said: I know you don't, but I actually do care. A big chunk of the NFL happily endorsing Trump makes me more convinced that dropping the NFL was the moral thing to do. This isn't the case with, say, the NBA, and the NBA has crazy other problems mind you - but that's not one of them. Sports aren't just about sports any more, as much as we'd love to think otherwise. And this is my problem with this thought process: it moralizes things that are amoral (as opposed to immoral). It makes people gain a modicum of moral superiority that is, frankly, not earned; they simply say "I am a superior person because I do not watch the NFL." That's really vacuous. Again, I said this in the link that DanteG put up earlier in the thread, (and I always like quoting me) (from just prior to the election) : Quote ... one of the reasons I hate this race is that it has moralized the election. If you vote for HRC (Trump supporters claim), you endorse lying, fraud and dishonesty; if you vote for Trump (HRC supporters claim) you endorse racism and misogyny. And while I agree more with the latter than the former, its this "othering" of the election that really aggravates me. And its making moral judgments that say "If you vote for X you are 'bad' and if you support Y you are 'good' and HEAVEN FORBID you say you want to vote for alt-X or alt-Y! Don't get me wrong- I think that more bad people will vote for Trump than will vote for HRC (at least pro-rated), but I don't think that if you vote for Trump you are, defacto, a bad person. And I don't like what this all implies. If I discover tomorrow that my dad voted for Trump... do I not allow him in my home? If I find out a client of mine voted Trump should I cut them off? Should I not accept referrals from Trump supporters? I find all of that a little too "One-Party-State-ish" for me. It sounds like something you would discover happened in "Elections" from 1952 Poland or something. This is my problem and it is not limited to the topic of football. If I give my money to the NFL, am I ... supporting Trump? Well, am I sup[porting some people who support Trump? What about all the ones who do not? And if they did vot efor Trump they are defacto "bad people?" And, of course, if you are against Trump (as I am) you are good? Its virtue signaling at the Olympic level and its void of substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 38 minutes ago, Rockroi said: Meh... At the end of the day, the Pats are going to the Superbowl. This is all distraction. Rex Ryan, Nick Mangold, John Harbaugh, Richie Incognito (because of course that mountain of used condoms and bleach would endorse Trump) all endorsed Trump. Who cares? Its their choice to make bad decisions. The media is not particularly attached to this story as much as I thought they would be. There will be more questions, but if there is one team that can deflect this its this one. John Harbaugh, eh? That's a new one to me. Fuck that guy. I am pissed about Brady's disingenuous "Why do people care if I'm friends with him?" approach. I know he is a Legendarily Focused Competitor who thinks about football 110% of the time, but it fucking rankles. He should fucking know exactly why people care that he's pals with a fraudulent conman and sexual assaulter. I don't care if he was great to you when you were 25. He's the fucking scum of the earth and he should be renounced by all decent people. And he keeps bringing up your name, Tommy boy! That's why people keep fucking asking you! At least Roethlisberger had the fucking decency to disown Trump's claims! I don't care if he stonewalls the NFL in a sham investigation or pretends not to have an opinion on Roger Goodell, but Trump is actively damaging the lives of millions. This is not some cute PR bullshit game. And I think we've talked about it before, but it's uncharacteristic of both him and Belichick to have been publicly friendly with him. Sending Trump a letter that he was okay with Trump sharing at a rally? Displaying that ugly-ass red hat at his locker? From the "no distractions" guys? Fuck that. What are they thinking? It's like Trump is a mind virus that makes everyone he comes in contact with do uncharacteristically stupid and awful things. I should be fucking ecstatic that the Pats are going to the Super Bowl again, in the Ballghazi Revenge year. But the presence of Trump taints my enjoyment. I'm half afraid he's going to try and show up to the game or put his shit-encrusted mark on the game in some way. So yeah, like Kal, the Trump-NFL thing is helping speed my cut-off from the league. I couldn't help getting sucked back into it, but I'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rockroi said: And this is my problem with this thought process: it moralizes things that are amoral (as opposed to immoral). It makes people gain a modicum of moral superiority that is, frankly, not earned; they simply say "I am a superior person because I do not watch the NFL." That's really vacuous. Again, I said this in the link that DanteG put up earlier in the thread, (and I always like quoting me) (from just prior to the election) : This is my problem and it is not limited to the topic of football. If I give my money to the NFL, am I ... supporting Trump? Well, am I sup[porting some people who support Trump? What about all the ones who do not? And if they did vot efor Trump they are defacto "bad people?" And, of course, if you are against Trump (as I am) you are good? Its virtue signaling at the Olympic level and its void of substance. Why do you believe that the NFL is amoral? I don't claim that I'm superior because I don't watch the NFL, any more than I claim that you're inferior because you're a Pats fan. However, if you are in support of an industry that does a lot of immoral activities and supports causes that you are directly against, how can you claim this is an amoral act? If you give money to the NFL you're supporting an organization that is largely in favor of Trump. You're supporting billionaire owners who are absolutely in favor of it. But really, you don't need to go there; you can simply be upset because you're supporting an organization that has shown itself to be corrupt, supporting domestic abusers, willing to cover up actual crimes, is deeply unfair to most of their employees, happily covers up basic medical science about injuries, refuses medical coverage after retiring and supports a farm system which is itself fairly horrible. These are all things that are exceedingly moral (or immoral) too; they are most certainly not amoral. Now, you can decide that the value you get from it - moral or otherwise - supersedes the immoral activities. As an example, I eat meat - red meat - knowing that it is a problem for the environment, for my health, and kills animals. I've decided that the value to me and my family is worth it to me. But that doesn't excuse the problems and make them go away. That doesn't make other people's arguments against it go away. They just might not be as valuable to me as they are to others. So own it. Say that it doesn't matter to you as much that your favorite team is coached by a guy who is friends with Trump. Say that it doesn't matter to you as much that the quarterback had a MAGA hat in his locker room and has spoken for him a couple times now. Say that Greg Hardy's suspension doesn't matter that much to you, or whoever the punter was that got resigned by the Giants. Own it. Say that you acknowledge those things exist, and aren't as important to you as the pleasure that you get from football. But don't deny that they exist because they're inconvenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: Why do you believe that the NFL is amoral? I don't claim that I'm superior because I don't watch the NFL, any more than I claim that you're inferior because you're a Pats fan. However, if you are in support of an industry that does a lot of immoral activities and supports causes that you are directly against, how can you claim this is an amoral act? If you give money to the NFL you're supporting an organization that is largely in favor of Trump. You're supporting billionaire owners who are absolutely in favor of it. But really, you don't need to go there; you can simply be upset because you're supporting an organization that has shown itself to be corrupt, supporting domestic abusers, willing to cover up actual crimes, is deeply unfair to most of their employees, happily covers up basic medical science about injuries, refuses medical coverage after retiring and supports a farm system which is itself fairly horrible. These are all things that are exceedingly moral (or immoral) too; they are most certainly not amoral. Now, you can decide that the value you get from it - moral or otherwise - supersedes the immoral activities. As an example, I eat meat - red meat - knowing that it is a problem for the environment, for my health, and kills animals. I've decided that the value to me and my family is worth it to me. But that doesn't excuse the problems and make them go away. That doesn't make other people's arguments against it go away. They just might not be as valuable to me as they are to others. So own it. Say that it doesn't matter to you as much that your favorite team is coached by a guy who is friends with Trump. Say that it doesn't matter to you as much that the quarterback had a MAGA hat in his locker room and has spoken for him a couple times now. Say that Greg Hardy's suspension doesn't matter that much to you, or whoever the punter was that got resigned by the Giants. Own it. Say that you acknowledge those things exist, and aren't as important to you as the pleasure that you get from football. But don't deny that they exist because they're inconvenient. *EPIC MIC DROP* /Still going to watch the NFL. I require an intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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