Get Out! SPOILER THREAD Jordan Peele Triumph

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 *Whoa-Kay*

 

[Lily Valley]

On 3/24/2017 at 1:19 PM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

What I'm getting at is that during a time of high racial tensions, its a little uncomfortable watching a movie where the white guys are the villains trying to kill black people.

Of course that is not the actual message of the movie, which is saying something else entirely. But I don't think the intended message is the one that is being delivered. 

My friend certainly didn't feel it was very helpful when it comes to race relations and I'm inclined to agree with her. 

It was supposed to be uncomfortable.  What movie did you watch?  The sense of betrayal was very genre.  Rosemary's Baby is a parable on domestic violence and how "everyone is in on it".   Were you equally uncomfortable watching that during second wave feminism?  If so, why not?

 You don't have to think very hard to see how Get Out has similar things to say about systemic racism.  Peele already has talked about how he originally kicked around the idea of a dark ending to this film.  That would have been more realistic, but much less satisfying.

I thought Lil' Rey was hilarious, YMMV.  Modern horror needs a little comic relief.  His role reminded me of Joanna's friend in The Stepford Wives.  The difference in this film, is that Lil' Rey was OUTSIDE and his role was to be the only one who believed that Something Was Wrong.  You don't get to win in a horror film unless you have an ally.  It was nice to see the ally live this time.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

It was supposed to be uncomfortable.  What movie did you watch?  The sense of betrayal was very genre.  Rosemary's Baby is a parable on domestic violence and how "everyone is in on it".   Were you equally uncomfortable watching that during second wave feminism?  If so, why not?

 You don't have to think very hard to see how Get Out has similar things to say about systemic racism.  Peele already has talked about how he originally kicked around the idea of a dark ending to this film.  That would have been more realistic, but much less satisfying.

I thought Lil' Rey was hilarious, YMMV.  Modern horror needs a little comic relief.  His role reminded me of Joanna's friend in The Stepford Wives.  The difference in this film, is that Lil' Rey was OUTSIDE and his role was to be the only one who believed that Something Was Wrong.  You don't get to win in a horror film unless you have an ally.  It was nice to see the ally live this time.

I think there is a difference between this and Rosemary's baby, in that Rosemary's baby wasn't pointing it's finger at any one group and making them the bad guy. If I was watching it and all men were evil and women were victims then yeah I'd feel uncomfortable, and I'd also say it was sending out the wrong message.

like I said, there are good intentions in this movie, and elements of it are clever and well thought out.

But at the same time, it's coming after ferguson and some of the highest racial tensions in the US for years. Instead of being a helpful look at racism, all I feel it does is create yet more racial divide and sew the seeds of division. Underneath all it's clever points it's still a movie about white people being out there trying to kill black people, all white people. Its hard to brush that off.

Maybe it's because I'm from the Uk and we don't have anything like the racial problems Americans do, but then I'm looking at it from the outside and I honestly can't see how a movie like this is helpful.

i walked out of that movie , me and my friend one of the only white people in the theatre, and there were people shouting about how they would have killed that 'white bitch'. Yeah I felt uncomfortable, the reverse would have been equally bad.

The movie is getting universal praise for its exposure of liberal racist attitudes, but I think people seem to bemissing the point that  the intended message isn't always the one that people take out of a movie

[Lily Valley]

1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I think there is a difference between this and Rosemary's baby, in that Rosemary's baby wasn't pointing it's finger at any one group and making them the bad guy. If I was watching it and all men were evil

 

 

Maybe it's because I'm from the Uk and we don't have anything like the racial problems Americans do.

Right, you don't.  You have NO IDEA how bad "racial problems" are here.  None.  Fact is, I don't either.  But I can at least talk about the influence of other horror films and acknowledge that all of those tropes were evil.  

You can't even enter that conversation.  Why?

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

18 minutes ago, Lily Valley said:

Right, you don't.  You have NO IDEA how bad "racial problems" are here.  None.  Fact is, I don't either.  But I can at least talk about the influence of other horror films and acknowledge that all of those tropes were evil.  

You can't even enter that conversation.  Why?

I can't even enter the discussion? wow.

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Have some decorum and grace when it comes to discussing race issues in the US. Among other things, that means realizing that this discussion isn't some internet pissing contest to win, and to back away gracefully when it's clear that others have more lived experience with US-specific racism than you do. This thread will be heavily moderated from here on out. Thank you. [/mod]

[Week]

On 3/24/2017 at 11:36 AM, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 *Whoa-Kay*

 

Correct.

#AllTakesMatter 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

8 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

But at the same time, it's coming after ferguson and some of the highest racial tensions in the US for years. Instead of being a helpful look at racism, all I feel it does is create yet more racial divide and sew the seeds of division. Underneath all it's clever points it's still a movie about white people being out there trying to kill black people, all white people. Its hard to brush that off.

Maybe it's because I'm from the Uk and we don't have anything like the racial problems Americans do, but then I'm looking at it from the outside and I honestly can't see how a movie like this is helpful.

i walked out of that movie , me and my friend one of the only white people in the theatre, and there were people shouting about how they would have killed that 'white bitch'. Yeah I felt uncomfortable, the reverse would have been equally bad.

The movie is getting universal praise for its exposure of liberal racist attitudes, but I think people seem to bemissing the point that  the intended message isn't always the one that people take out of a movie

 I think the inability or unwillingness to have an open and honest dialogue about these sorts of sensitive issues is in part why things are so tense though. Movies like this are an effective vehicle to make people think about these sorts of things. It's fiction. Unlike Fergurson, it didn't actually happen. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I imagine you can see my point.

 In this particular instance, I don't find the sentiment about wanting to kill that "white bitch" all that disturbing. You should want to see that character die violently. She is the matriarch of a truly horrid family business that preys on black victims. It would certainly be more politically correct to say "I'd kill that bitch" and remove the racial element, but the racial element is an intrinsic part of the film.

 Not sure how this film exposes liberal racist attitudes. The White characters in this film only use the liberal attitudes as a thin cover in order to keep the black victim at ease. "We're cool with our white daughter dating a black man. I would've voted for Obama a third time." The reality is they are looking to enslave black people in a way that is even more insidious than actual slavery was. There is nothing liberal about what they are doing.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

47 minutes ago, Week said:

Correct.

#AllTakesMatter 

Fair point. I overreacted there. I should not have been so dismissive of Channel4s-Jon Snow's take. Apologies.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

I thought Lil' Rey was hilarious, YMMV.  Modern horror needs a little comic relief.  His role reminded me of Joanna's friend in The Stepford Wives.  The difference in this film, is that Lil' Rey was OUTSIDE and his role was to be the only one who believed that Something Was Wrong.  You don't get to win in a horror film unless you have an ally.  It was nice to see the ally live this time.

Another angle on Lil' Rey that I enjoyed was the TSA thing. Many of us in this country see these folks as being ineffectual, bumbling security guard types, and Rey runs into that attitude on a couple of different occasions in the film. Turns out he's more effective than the cops at the end of the day.

[Week]

11 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Fair point. I overreacted there. I should not have been so dismissive of Channel4s-Jon Snow's take. Apologies.

I don't think you did - #AllTakesMatter was intended to be a #AllLivesMatter with sarcasm.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 I think the inability or unwillingness to have an open and honest dialogue about these sorts of sensitive issues is in part why things are so tense though. Movies like this are an effective vehicle to make people think about these sorts of things. It's fiction. Unlike Fergurson, it didn't actually happen. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but I imagine you can see my point.

 In this particular instance, I don't find the sentiment about wanting to kill that "white bitch" all that disturbing. You should want to see that character die violently. She is the matriarch of a truly horrid family business that preys on black victims. It would certainly be more politically correct to say "I'd kill that bitch" and remove the racial element, but the racial element is an intrinsic part of the film.

 Not sure how this film exposes liberal racist attitudes. The White characters in this film only use the liberal attitudes as a thin cover in order to keep the black victim at ease. "We're cool with our white daughter dating a black man. I would've voted for Obama a third time." The reality is they are looking to enslave black people in a way that is even more insidious than actual slavery was. There is nothing liberal about what they are doing.

Yes potentially movies like this could in fact start interesting conversations and push dialogue in a direction it wouldn't have gone normally. What I'm saying is that the line that this movie is doing that ,isn't really correct IMO.  In fact I think it might be doing the exact opposite, putting out a message that actual inflames racial tensions. 

The liberal criticism is pretty valid I think, it exposes an underlying level of racial thinking that gets swept under the carpet, the over compensating and being terrified of being viewed as racist is still treating people differently based on their colour. Its not really a particularly cutting piece of satire but its fine. Even if the characters themselves are not liberal, they are mimicking behaviour that is worth satire. 



 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

10 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Yes potentially movies like this could in fact start interesting conversations and push dialogue in a direction it wouldn't have gone normally. What I'm saying is that the line that this movie is doing that ,isn't really correct IMO.  In fact I think it might be doing the exact opposite, putting out a message that actual inflames racial tensions. 

The liberal criticism is pretty valid I think, it exposes an underlying level of racial thinking that gets swept under the carpet, the over compensating and being terrified of being viewed as racist is still treating people differently based on their colour. Its not really a particularly cutting piece of satire but its fine. Even if the characters themselves are not liberal, they are mimicking behaviour that is worth satire. 

 But what better vehicle than fiction is there for making these sorts of observations? I see this sort of film as being more insightful than it is inciting.

 I agree with you that the liberal criticism is valid. It's just that in this particular instance I don't think the antagonists are terrified of being viewed as racist, they are simply using the typical liberal attitudes to put their victim at ease. They are gaslighting him, which is a tried and true Horror trope.

[Week]

8 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Yes potentially movies like this could in fact start interesting conversations and push dialogue in a direction it wouldn't have gone normally. What I'm saying is that the line that this movie is doing that ,isn't really correct IMO.  In fact I think it might be doing the exact opposite, putting out a message that actual inflames racial tensions. 

The liberal criticism is pretty valid I think, it exposes an underlying level of racial thinking that gets swept under the carpet, the over compensating and being terrified of being viewed as racist is still treating people differently based on their colour. Its not really a particularly cutting piece of satire but its fine. Even if the characters themselves are not liberal, they are mimicking behaviour that is worth satire. 

You contradict yourself in the bolded text. The movie in many instances has lead to discussion around these issues.

The underlined is, frankly, the response of triggered white fragility. I cannot disagree enough. Some audience's inability to grapple with nuance and challenging issues is not the fault of the movie.

That all said - it really is an American movie speaking to American experience. It's troubling to witness concern over a horror-comedy movie inflaming racial tensions. Particularly one told from the perspective of a minority group that has been the ongoing victim of racism. Reverse-racism is not a thing - the power-dynamic of racism is that of the empowered and oppressed which cannot be blithely flipped.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 But what better vehicle than fiction is there for making these sorts of observations? I see this sort of film as being more insightful than it is inciting.

 I agree with you that the liberal criticism is valid. It's just that in this particular instance I don't think the antagonists are terrified of being viewed as racist, they are simply using the typical liberal attitudes to put their victim at ease. They are gaslighting him, which is a tried and true Horror trope.

I don't think the movie is that insightful on the whole, even if it tries to be. But it's failing is that at its heart its just a low brow budget thriller, the comedy element highlights just how low brow it is. 

Because of that you don't get people looking very hard at the themes of the movie or analysing it on a satirical level. You just see a movie about white people enslaving black people. My black friend said she was disgusted by the audience reaction whilst watching it, and felt a bit ashamed. 

[Week]

Other perspectives to consider...

http://verysmartbrothas.com/what-becky-gotta-do-to-get-murked-white-womanhood-in-jordan-peeles-get-out/

http://verysmartbrothas.com/get-out-takes-cultural-appropriation-to-the-cultural-harvest-level/

http://verysmartbrothas.com/10-pitch-perfect-examples-of-yeah-thats-some-white-people-shit-in-jordan-peeles-get-out/

http://www.theroot.com/get-out-is-a-refreshing-creepy-stress-filled-thriller-1792645766

etc.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Yeah, I'm pretty much in complete agreement with Week here. I see this sort of film as ultimately being far more positive than damning in that it makes the audience think about a subject that it would probably otherwise just avoid.

 What reaction was your black friend ashamed of exactly? The cheering the physical violence enacted on villains who clearly deserve it? I'm a bit confused.  

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Yeah, I'm pretty much in complete agreement with Week here. I see this sort of film as ultimately being far more positive than damning in that it makes the audience think about a subject that it would probably otherwise just avoid.

 What reaction was your black friend ashamed of exactly? The cheering the physical violence enacted on villains who clearly deserve it? I'm a bit confused.  

She said that the cheering wasn't just aimed at the villains of the movie, but was more racial in nature, and that it was pretty aggressive. She's hardly someone I'd say was overly sensitive to this sort of thing so it must had been pretty bad. It also echoed my experience when I watched the movie, although not as extreme as hers. 

We can link to articles written by film critics all we want about what a clever movie it is, but that's not the audience for the movie, and that's the problem. Do people watch Adam sandler movies for the clever social commentary, or even notice it if it's in there?

[Week]

17 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

We can link to articles written by film critics all we want about what a clever movie it is, but that's not the audience for the movie, and that's the problem. Do people watch Adam sandler movies for the clever social commentary, or even notice it if it's in there?

You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink. It would be reasonable to actually open the articles to understand that they are not written by film critics. The articles are written by people who are the audience of the movie.

Inaccurate snark hits back ugly (I should know as I am a common offender, but come the fuck on).

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

2 minutes ago, Week said:

You can bring a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink. It would be reasonable to actually open the articles to understand that they are not written by film critics. The articles are written by people who are the audience of the movie.

Inaccurate snark hits back ugly (I should know as I am a common offender, but come the fuck on).

If an article is written by someone who writes for GQ magazine or quotes guess who's coming to dinner I would suggest they were not the same type of audience that was watching when I saw it nor when my friend saw it.