Tywin et al. Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 44 minutes ago, sperry said: Carmelo isn't that bad of a defender. He's certainly not great, but he's not the train wreck he's being made out to be. He might not be terrible defensively, but roster construction matters, and I have no Idea how a lineup of LeBron/Kyrie/Melo/Love/TT could defend any good offensive team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: He might not be terrible defensively, but roster construction matters, and I have no Idea how a lineup of LeBron/Kyrie/Melo/Love/TT could defend any good offensive team. That's not the lineup I'm suggesting. Love and Melo play the same position, so they can't be on the floor at the same time. Love is swapped for a wing player in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, sperry said: That's not the lineup I'm suggesting. Love and Melo play the same position, so they can't be on the floor at the same time. Love is swapped for a wing player in this scenario. But you've already conceded that Love > Melo, so how does this improve the Cavs? Honestly, I think Melo's only viable role for the Cavs would be as a scorer coming off the bench, and even then I'd only use him if I had a lead. I don't think he brings much value at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: But you've already conceded that Love > Melo, so how does this improve the Cavs? Honestly, I think Melo's only viable role of the Cavs would be as a scorer coming off the bench, and even then I'd only use him if I had a lead. I don't think he brings much value at this point in his career. Because they swap Love for a good wing, and it's a wing plus Melo, not a Love vs. Melo straight up comparison. For example, Love for Jae Crowde, Marcus Smart and one of the draft and stash first rounders the Celtics made last year. Think that trade makes sense for both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 hour ago, sperry said: Carmelo isn't that bad of a defender. He's certainly not great, but he's not the train wreck he's being made out to be. Sperry, I agree with you 100%. Melo has played his best ball when surrounded by elite players and he isn't considered the face of the team. I think it takes pressure off of him. I think he would fit very well with the Cavs and wouldn't be the ISO player he's been in the Knicks and Nuggets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just now, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: Sperry, I agree with you 100%. Melo has played his best ball when surrounded by elite players and he isn't considered the face of the team. I think it takes pressure off of him. I think he would fit very well with the Cavs and wouldn't be the ISO player he's been in the Knicks and Nuggets. Yup. And he can create shots for others too, something Love isn't being used for currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 It's just one of those mistakes you see sports fans make a ton. When a guy is billed as a franchise guy but isn't good enough to be that, that somehow gets conflated with "he can't play." If Carmelo is your third option, you are in fantastic shape. Carmelo is easily going to finish as a top 10 scorer in NBA history, and he's still playing at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Celts supposedly angling for Hayward and George. That would be a coup. Not sure they can pull it off though... https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-celtics-working-land-gordon-hayward-paul-george-181020436.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 41 minutes ago, sperry said: It's just one of those mistakes you see sports fans make a ton. When a guy is billed as a franchise guy but isn't good enough to be that, that somehow gets conflated with "he can't play." If Carmelo is your third option, you are in fantastic shape. Carmelo is easily going to finish as a top 10 scorer in NBA history, and he's still playing at a high level. Eh, how can you be a top 10 all-time scorer, but not be considered a franchise guy? He's underachieved his entire career. And some of those Nugget teams were loaded. They just ran into that Laker's buzzsaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Eh, how can you be a top 10 all-time scorer, but not be considered a franchise guy? He's underachieved his entire career. And some of those Nugget teams were loaded. They just ran into that Laker's buzzsaw. By scoring more points than all but 9 players? And he's always been a borderline franchise guy. Those Denver teams he was on were good playoff teams. Just not title contenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, sperry said: By scoring more points than all but 9 players? And he's always been a borderline franchise guy. Those Denver teams he was on were good playoff teams. Just not title contenders So here's the list. Melo sits at 25 presently... http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders Is there one guy on that list that you wouldn't consider to be a franchise player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: So here's the list. Melo sits at 25 presently... http://www.espn.com/nba/history/leaders Is there one guy on that list that you wouldn't consider to be a franchise player? Not sure what that has to do with anything. In his prime, Carmelo was able to be the best player on teams that consistently won 50 games. But he wasn't good enough to win a championship. As the third best player on the Cavs, he's a fantastic addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 1 minute ago, sperry said: Not sure what that has to do with anything. In his prime, Carmelo was able to be the best player on teams that consistently won 50 games. But he wasn't good enough to win a championship. As the third best player on the Cavs, he's a fantastic addition. He's a franchise guy who has underachieved for his entire career in terms of playoff success. In terms of a team game. When you say this is a perception problem among fans, I think you're wrong. He is what he's shown himself to be. A prolific scorer who does little else to help his team win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 32 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: He's a franchise guy who has underachieved for his entire career in terms of playoff success. In terms of a team game. When you say this is a perception problem among fans, I think you're wrong. He is what he's shown himself to be. A prolific scorer who does little else to help his team win. Again, conflating the inability to singlehandedly raise a team to a championship with the inability to be a great third piece on a great team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 hours ago, sperry said: That's not the lineup I'm suggesting. Love and Melo play the same position, so they can't be on the floor at the same time. Love is swapped for a wing player in this scenario. Gotcha. 2 hours ago, sperry said: Because they swap Love for a good wing, and it's a wing plus Melo, not a Love vs. Melo straight up comparison. For example, Love for Jae Crowde, Marcus Smart and one of the draft and stash first rounders the Celtics made last year. Think that trade makes sense for both parties. Have to disagree about the trade. The last thing that the Cavs need right now is picks. What you need to do is make that haul go to Indiana, have George go to the Cavs and Love to the Celtics. That's a trade where everyone wins. And if the Celtics can get Hayward, they could legitimately push the Cavs while also setting themselves up to overtake the East once LeBron declines or leaves for the West. 41 minutes ago, sperry said: Not sure what that has to do with anything. In his prime, Carmelo was able to be the best player on teams that consistently won 50 games. But he wasn't good enough to win a championship. As the third best player on the Cavs, he's a fantastic addition. Prime Melo could have lead teams to a championship, but unfortunately for him there were a few other guys that were better than him and they had better teams. If LeBron stays with the Cavs and Melo goes to the Heat with Bosh, who ya got? Cause I got the Melo lead Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, sperry said: Again, conflating the inability to singlehandedly raise a team to a championship with the inability to be a great third piece on a great team. I would certainly agree that now he's little better than a good third piece, but there was a time when he was considered a franchise guy. /Then again, I can't think of a team that you'd put him on as the third piece that's going to win a championship. I don't think he elevates the Cavs over the Warriors, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Celts supposedly angling for Hayward and George. That would be a coup. Not sure they can pull it off though... https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-celtics-working-land-gordon-hayward-paul-george-181020436.html Nah, Paul George is going to the Wizards. Saw a headline on ESPN that John Wall is trying to convince Paul George to be traded to the Wizards so I assume he'll just make that happen. Ian Mahimni and a soda machine. Otto Porter, Brandon Jennings and a signed, game-worn Gilbert Arenas jersey. Better act now, Kevin Pritchard, or the offers will only get worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jaime L said: Nah, Paul George is going to the Wizards. Saw a headline on ESPN that John Wall is trying to convince Paul George to be traded to the Wizards so I assume he'll just make that happen. Ian Mahimni and a soda machine. Otto Porter, Brandon Jennings and a signed, game-worn Gilbert Arenas jersey. Better act now, Kevin Pritchard, or the offers will only get worse! With shoulder holster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: With shoulder holster? Can't prove it was game-worn without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just now, Jaime L said: Can't prove it was game-worn without that. SOLD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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