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Wolves Die Young

[SPOILERS] What did you love about this episode?

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2 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Cersei does not deserve a happy ever after in any universe. She needs to die horribly painfully and loudly.

"LOUDLY"... dang you always make me laugh.  Love how the words a person chooses to use says a lot about their POV!

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2 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

"LOUDLY"... dang you always make me laugh.  Love how the words a person chooses to use says a lot about their POV!

I'm a bit odd. I embrace my weirdness and let my freak flag fly. I hate Cersei. Hate her in both show and books with the heat of a million suns. She as some downright funny inner monologues absolutely.

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13 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

Sansa wants everything.  She wants to do nothing to earn it. 

The journeys of Sansa V Arya are, hmmm, STARK.  One of them was plucked from constant harassment and psychic abuse, brought the safety, protected and cradled, taught and hand-held the entire time, put back in her home, saved from certain death, and then when it's all over, she wants the person who did all that KILLED and then expects to rule Winterfell when nothing she personally did made that happen. 

Stark In Name Only.

Arya was initially a victim, getting taken and kidnapped everywhere by different people, but still training the entire time, eventually threw away everything and got on a ship for a foreign nation to train more, sought out strangers not for a free lunch but for knowledge and wisdom, kept training, fought and clawed, learned to pay attention and be observant, honed her skills, HAD A PLAN FOR HERSELF RELYING ON NO ONE.

True Stark.

Arya returned home only to find Lady Deadheart at the helm of Winterfell just waiting for another Free Lunch for when Jon dies so she can rule uninterrupted.  Sansa has done not one thing on her own except maybe I consider jumping off a wall to be self-initiated.  Before that, she was a little hatchling being housed, clothed and educated by Littlefinger.

What a CHILD Sansa is.  She went from one type of CHILD into another form of CHILD.

Sweet summer child... ^_^

You care to much about deserving things instead of actually possessing them. At the end of the day, Arya has nothing except anger, revenge and blood on the hands, while Sansa is Lady of Winterfell. I think Sansa did better, don't you? :rolleyes:

I wanted to write a lot but my english is not good enough to argue with you, but Arya learned from training while Sansa learned from suffering the power of others. I think they are equal in determination and resilience, Sansa just had much more harder times than Arya who should return to catch cats in the streets rather than express her opinion in a politic dilemma, Sansa doesn't tell her how to kill.

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2 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I think jaime was about to walk away but now he has to stay for the kid.

That's what I'm saying.  It accomplishes three things:

1) Jaime remains loyal
2) gives Cersei some level of "humanity" back with the viewers
3) lays foundation for future brutal event to break them apart

Think about it, at this point, WHY is Jaime standing by her?  They had the whole conversation she said "our dynasty" and he replied "there's no one left to carry on our dynasty."

AT THIS MOMENT, I CONSIDER: COULD THIS BE A TRICK?  Cersei sees Jaime is about to veer off and she sets up this "performance" with Qyburn as a co-conspirator!

Could The Pregnancy Be A Lie?!

I'm learning from Littlefinger about being steps ahead :D

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3 minutes ago, Infeth said:

Sweet summer child... ^_^

You care to much about deserving things instead of actually possessing them. At the end of the day, Arya has nothing except anger, revenge and blood on the hands, while Sansa is Lady of Winterfell. I think Sansa did better, don't you? :rolleyes:

I wanted to write a lot but my english is not good enough to argue with you, but Arya learned from training while Sansa learned from suffering the power of others. I think they are equal in determination and resilience, Sansa just had much more harder times than Arya who should return to catch cats in the streets rather than express her opinion in a politic dilemma, Sansa doesn't tell her how to kill.

Your english is good enough to be wrong, so feel free.....

I simply compared and contrasted how both of them got to where they were.  You said Sansa is "Lady of Winterfell" and claim that is something good or worthy?  How did she get to be that?  She was BORN WITH HER NAME.  What is she without her name?  What can she do if her name was Rock or Leaf or Particle?  What power does she have without Brienne's sword?  What authority does she have without her direwolf sigul?

Arya could be Arya Horseface and she can move like a shadow, predict the schemes of others, FIGHT in various ways, employ disguise and subterfuge to achieve goals, and she got all of this by doing it on her own.

WHO is the strong woman in this scenario?  Let's ask Siri.

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6 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

That's what I'm saying.  It accomplishes three things:

1) Jaime remains loyal
2) gives Cersei some level of "humanity" back with the viewers
3) lays foundation for future brutal event to break them apart

Think about it, at this point, WHY is Jaime standing by her?  They had the whole conversation she said "our dynasty" and he replied "there's no one left to carry on our dynasty."

AT THIS MOMENT, I CONSIDER: COULD THIS BE A TRICK?  Cersei sees Jaime is about to veer off and she sets up this "performance" with Qyburn as a co-conspirator!

Could The Pregnancy Be A Lie?!

I'm learning from Littlefinger about being steps ahead :D

I was wondering about that too. She plays like she is pregnant and then "loses" her baby making jaime sympathize with her even more. She knows that if jaime leaves her she is done. I still am mad at jaime for not saying.

Jaime-She hasn't used her dragons on kingslanding yet. Which means she doesn't want to kill thousands of civilians so let's use it as leverage. We could make a deal so that we actually live. Exile is better then death

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2 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

Your english is good enough to be wrong, so feel free.....

I simply compared and contrasted how both of them got to where they were.  You said Sansa is "Lady of Winterfell" and claim that is something good or worthy?  How did she get to be that?  She was BORN WITH HER NAME.  What is she without her name?  What can she do if her name was Rock or Leaf or Particle?  What power does she have without Brienne's sword?  What authority does she have without her direwolf sigul?

Arya could be Arya Horseface and she can move like a shadow, predict the schemes of others, FIGHT in various ways, employ disguise and subterfuge to achieve goals, and she got all of this by doing it on her own.

WHO is the strong woman in this scenario?  Let's ask Siri.

They did that scene horribly in my opinion. Sansa was doing the right thing where as arya essentially came off as a psychopath. Yes arya is more skilled and doesn't need her last name to have power but in this scene she looked horrible. I am really hoping it's an act to get littlefinger to show his true colors or something.

 

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4 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I was wondering about that too. She plays like she is pregnant and then "loses" her baby making jaime sympathize with her even more. She knows that if jaime leaves her she is done. I still am mad at jaime for not saying.

Jaime-She hasn't used her dragons on kingslanding yet. Which means she doesn't want to kill thousands of civilians so let's use it as leverage. We could make a deal so that we actually live. Exile is better then death

First part, man that is still cheesy writing.  How many times have we seen women lying to men about being with child to keep them around?

Yes, he is NEVER telling her the truth!  They COULD go into exile and live with each other, Cersei is power mad tho.

KIND OF LIKE SANSA.

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3 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

They did that scene horribly in my opinion. Sansa was doing the right thing where as arya essentially came off as a psychopath. Yes arya is more skilled and doesn't need her last name to have power but in this scene she looked horrible. I am really hoping it's an act to get littlefinger to show his true colors or something.

I never thought of what, baiting Sansa to reveal LF.

BUT, I'm (again) just contrasting these two women and how they got to be what they are right now.  I will agree Arya came off a little harsh compared to what Sansa was actually displaying, but I take it as, she knows Sansa.  They grew up together.  Think of if you have siblings.  You will always know them better inside and out than someone out in the world.

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1 hour ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Yes. Yes. And more Yes. Arya see into her heart and true feelings. It's what she was trained to do. She didn't just pick on Sansa out of nowhere. She has been watching. She watched learned and then addressed the issue. It might seem out of place to some folks but it was just Arya watching seeing and hearing. She was just letting Sansa know "feel however you want to feel, just don't fuck over Jon."

Thats right. She has seen Sansa's petulance and lack of integrity from a very early age so she can recognize it now very easily. Sansa may fool many, but she's not fooling her sister.

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5 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

First part, man that is still cheesy writing.  How many times have we seen women lying to men about being with child to keep them around?

Yes, he is NEVER telling her the truth!  They COULD go into exile and live with each other, Cersei is power mad tho.

KIND OF LIKE SANSA.

You really hate sansa. As for jaiem and cersei I agree she would never take it but him bringing it up and even saying that she should do it for their child would be great

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40 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

Ha I didn't even catch that. Wait sandor and gentry might

Well I'm reaching on Gendry admittedly but I think I'm safe in calling Sandor an atheist of sorts (he doesn't disbelieve in the seven, but he does generally think they're assholes not worth worshipping).

Also Dany is clearly Jorah's God(dess) so that's how I'm counting him.  I guess that's a branch of Salladhor Saan's religion. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

Cersei gives birth to twin boys.

The second twin kills her coming out.

THERE is your valonqar. :)

Oh and I'm going to up the ante on this and call the twin boys both becoming direct White Walker converts just because fuck it why not.

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6 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

I never thought of what, baiting Sansa to reveal LF.

BUT, I'm (again) just contrasting these two women and how they got to be what they are right now.  I will agree Arya came off a little harsh compared to what Sansa was actually displaying, but I take it as, she knows Sansa.  They grew up together.  Think of if you have siblingsYou will always know them better inside and out than someone out in the world.

Exactly. People know who you once were and where you had been. Arya may not know Sansas journey since she was spirited away from Kings Landing by Yoren, but she knew the old Sansa and she's investigating based off whats known to her in the past and what she is seeing present day, She didn't try and behead Sansa. Everyone was screaming about viewers accusing Sansa of wanting to betray her family and wanting power for herself. Now that Arya has addressed the viewers concerns as her own and proved that Sansa does want Jons position (she didn't deny it either) yall ready to condem Arya for something she hasn't even done and may not even do.d

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9 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

You really hate sansa. As for jaiem and cersei I agree she would never take it but him bringing it up and even saying that she should do it for their child would be great

I hope you don't say "hate" in a reality context.  That would be absurd.

My WAY personally is to challenge the perception of what the "sheep" believe.  Sheep=most people and without real basis.

If you can't see that Sansa has been virtually hand fed most of her life, I don't know what to say.  She was the little girl in Winterfell you might compare to the little girl with the Justin Bieber poster and not eating her beets and complaining that the wi-fi isn't working and she can't text.  Then she is a little girl who ends up a bird in a gilded cage in King's Landing.  Still wearing the best clothes and being fed the best food and slaves doing her hair, but being tormented by the Lannisters.  Then she is removed from there, still a little girl but protected, housed and fed by Littlefinger who teaches her how to be political in her thought.  Then she is a little girl married off to a maniac who torments.... but still wearing the best clothes, servants to wash her, living in a castle, etc.  Then her family home is saved, she's still a child living in the best rooms in the castle, fed the best food and slaves doing her hair

is there a pattern here?

I mean, really.  What has Sansa ever done to earn anything for herself and the utter luxuries she enjoys?  This is simply a character examination.  And then I compared that to Arya living in the dirt, Bran living in the dirt, Rickon not much is known but dead, Robb thrown into Kingship at an early age and then finally slayed.  JON who has faced more than any of them combined.  I would say the other living Starks understand the reality of a common person and would make a better "warden" of the Northern people than Sansa. 

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18 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Thats right. She has seen Sansa's petulance and lack of integrity from a very early age so she can recognize it now very easily. Sansa may fool many, but she's not fooling her sister.

She really does lack integrity.  She suffered........... but who hasn't in her family......... she has earned nothing.  She never expects to earn anything.  She only expects to BE a Stark which means she is in charge.  She is 100% Ruling Class.  Who here is voting for the Ruling Elite? 

I'm Not.

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41 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

What power does she have without Brienne's sword?

Knowledge. As a child you're right, she was a whinny little girl, but then Cersei gave her the taste of power, Littlefinger showed her how to obtain it, and Ramsay made her understand the necessity of taking it.

Now (and I think she still has to practice, we still don't know the final evolution stage of Sansa), she could adapt to anybody, live in any place and use people's motivation to get what she wants, protect those she loves and destroy her ennemies.

You couldn't expect that from Arya, she has no experience of plotting, rulling or politics in general, she'd just cut her banners' head.

I'd say they both have their weapons, but I have always been more interested in intellect than strength, that is why I don't like Jon for example, who is unable to deal with many ennemies of different importance or to accept to be advised.

What has Sansa ever done to earn anything for herself and the utter luxuries she enjoys?

Smart decisions, like not telling about the army of the Val to Jon, if she had, like Arya would have because she is honest, he would have wasted this card, died and Sansa would be back in Ramsay's bed.

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I loved the "nod" to fans when Davos said to Gendry: "Thought you might still be roving". :)

And the last shot of the "Seven Samurai" going into a wall of blizzard.

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23 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Sansa may fool many, but she's not fooling her sister.

What's the old saying, "You can kid the world, but not your sister".

Definitely could be the case here. But Arya's love for Jon might cloud her judgement as well. She's been out of the loop for a long time. She doesn't really know recent-Jon. Though with the way the show has ignored his resurrection in terms of his character development, I guess that doesn't really matter anyway.

 

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Lord Glover after being rude to Jon and failing to join the cause. Then swearing allegiance. Firstly questioning his decision to ride south, then saying he would rather Sansa be Queen and then conniving with Littlefinger. At this rate Lord Glover is going to lose his head.

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