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Littlefinger's Game

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29 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I would have shown her dip back into a dark hallway and take the face off to remind them.

that would have worked  too bad a lot of the fans can't help write the show!

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2 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I've given that thought, too....but why would "not Arya" want to revenge the Freys?

Rule No.1 All men must die.

Rule No.2 All men must serve.

Reason: You don't pretend when you play the game of lies, you become that person and live their lifes until their characters (faces) have fulfilled their purpose. The faceless man will get better into character by killing the Freys. #justanopinion

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"Not Arya" makes no sense.

she left Braavos because she couldn't complete her training to become no one.

Jaken: " a girl is no one"

Arya:" no, a girl is Arya Stark of winterfell. And I am going home".

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2 hours ago, ImNoSer said:

would be an interesting twist, and good writing. Which makes me think thats not the case in the show.

Lol Arya being "not Arya" or the Waif would be horrendous writing and make even less sense than the already bad writing that has been happening for Arya from season 5. 

Arya's fight with Brienne, the whole stupid Winterfell drama with Sansa until they inevitably kill LF, etc etc - none of it would even come close to the pure fanficbess and absurdity of a plot where the real Arya is dead and the girl we are seeing now is really the Waif. It wouldn't be clever, it would just be pure and utter nonsense.

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6 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I've given that thought, too....but why would "not Arya" want to revenge the Freys?

Makes no sense for Arya not to be Arya. The only person she could be is the Waif, and what purpose in the story line would this serve....

Arya is Arya is Arya is Arya

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My two cents on why Arya is playing with him and not the contrary: Arya has the possibility to change her face. This means that if she had to spy on him, she (according to the character arc) should have done it using an anonymous face as she was trained to do.

Furthermore she was trained to follow people and let them be trapped while they are focusing on her or on wrong things. Think about the first man that she killed (the one that bit the coin) or the apprentice assassin that was following her.

So, I expect two possible solutions:

1.       Arya is just impulsive and is ignoring everything she learnt.

2.       Arya is cheating Littlefinger at his own game, with the support of Sansa, who also learnt a lot from Littlefinger.

In the end, the conclusion may be:

1.       This is the last lesson Arya and Sansa learn from Littlefinger before finding out his plan and killing him.

2.       Arya and Sansa do not need any further lesson from him and are going to kill him.

3.       Sansa is going to betray her family.

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2 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Makes no sense for Arya not to be Arya. The only person she could be is the Waif, and what purpose in the story line would this serve....

Arya is Arya is Arya is Arya

I do remember that the Waif absorbed EVERYTHING about Arya's life, experiences and family that she could get out of her.  The mechanism is there by which she could have been replaced, but I agree that I can't find a "why" to go along with the "how"

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30 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I do remember that the Waif absorbed EVERYTHING about Arya's life, experiences and family that she could get out of her.  The mechanism is there by which she could have been replaced, but I agree that I can't find a "why" to go along with the "how"

I fully understand that the Waif learnt alot about Arya life etc etc. But as both have pointed out ''why''

There is literally no reasoning, plot line and/or explanation why, a reasonable one at that, she would be posing as Arya.

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1 hour ago, ERRI8013 said:

My two cents on why Arya is playing with him and not the contrary: Arya has the possibility to change her face. This means that if she had to spy on him, she (according to the character arc) should have done it using an anonymous face as she was trained to do.

Furthermore she was trained to follow people and let them be trapped while they are focusing on her or on wrong things. Think about the first man that she killed (the one that bit the coin) or the apprentice assassin that was following her.

So, I expect two possible solutions:

1.       Arya is just impulsive and is ignoring everything she learnt.

2.       Arya is cheating Littlefinger at his own game, with the support of Sansa, who also learnt a lot from Littlefinger.

In the end, the conclusion may be:

1.       This is the last lesson Arya and Sansa learn from Littlefinger before finding out his plan and killing him.

2.       Arya and Sansa do not need any further lesson from him and are going to kill him.

3.       Sansa is going to betray her family.

If Arya is teaming with Sansa to find out little fingers "plan", that means he really needed that scroll for the "plan".

so what purpose serves the scroll from a long time a go which says that Sansa wants Robb Stark to stop the war?

LF needs Sansa and is trying show strongly that he loves her(even to Jon), so trying to use it against her is not an option.

if he was going to burn it or give it to her them it's not much of an evil plan.

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On 14.8.2017 at 2:59 PM, Samwell_Tarly said:

It was quite clear that Sansa does feel threatened by Arya and has seen what she is capable of. Was the Arya/Brienne fight scene a way to show Sansa that Brienne cant protect her....? 

Very good observation. Admittedly, I've always been a huge Sansa critic, both book-Sansa and show-Sansa. This is a character who, as a little girl, loved bossing around other people and later on, anytime she wasn't fearing for her life or doing something to survive, displayed the tendency of being willing to do nearly anything to obtain power. After all, this included marrying Joffrey and Ramsey. Granted, with Ramsey she had little clue what she was getting into, but with Joffrey, she only really started having a problem with him after he dumped her. Even after her father died, she still wanted to be his queen. Also, with Ramsey's death she displayed a capacity for cruelty that none of the other Starks have shown.

My reading for the current situation is that she feels she could be a better ruler in the North than Jon and likely can't help reminding herself that she has a better claim to the throne than he does. Perhaps this goes so far as to hope he does not return, which may be why she was easily convinced to support him in leaving, but reluctant to defend the decision before the Northern lords later on. She was likely relieved that Bran does not want to rule and may well, as Samwell Tarly observed, feel threatened by Arya's prowess. This is probably what Littlefinger understood and where he wants to apply the wedge. As for Sansa, she may well have deluded herself into believing that she can outwit and control Littlefinger and use him for her gain. I believe Littlefinger understands this and allows her to think so and underestimate him in the process. In this way, he can in turn manipulate her. I believe he understands that Bran is emotionally completely disconnected from his family and therefore not a threat to him. As for Arya, she cannot be anything but a threat to Littlefinger and thus, he can only we if the two sisters are alienated and Sansa sees her as a threat as well.

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5 minutes ago, Ari27 said:

If Arya is teaming with Sansa to find out little fingers "plan", that means he really needed that scroll for the "plan".

so what purpose serves the scroll from a long time a go which says that Sansa wants Robb Stark to stop the war?

LF needs Sansa and is trying show strongly that he loves her(even to Jon), so trying to use it against her is not an option.

if he was going to burn it or give it to her them it's not much of an evil plan.

I'm sorry, but I do not fully understand what you mean or how is it related to my post.

Littlefinger intention is, according to me, separate Sansa from the pack, have her for himself only, marry her and get (in the end) the Iron Throne.

Typical "evil plans" are not part of the Song of Ice and Fire, the only real archetypical big bad guy is the Night King.

So, Littlefinger has his plan and solution 2 is that Arya is letting him play to trap him in some way and to be justified to let him be sentenced to death.

Solution 1, maybe the simplest one, is that Arya is just impulsive. Littlefinger is actually being successful in deceiving her and only the pack will defeat the lone one.

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4 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

Lol Arya being "not Arya" or the Waif would be horrendous writing and make even less sense than the already bad writing that has been happening for Arya from season 5. 

Arya's fight with Brienne, the whole stupid Winterfell drama with Sansa until they inevitably kill LF, etc etc - none of it would even come close to the pure fanficbess and absurdity of a plot where the real Arya is dead and the girl we are seeing now is really the Waif. It wouldn't be clever, it would just be pure and utter nonsense.

In other words, it would be perfectly consistent with the writing of the show.

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2 hours ago, ERRI8013 said:

My two cents on why Arya is playing with him and not the contrary: Arya has the possibility to change her face. This means that if she had to spy on him, she (according to the character arc) should have done it using an anonymous face as she was trained to do.

Furthermore she was trained to follow people and let them be trapped while they are focusing on her or on wrong things. Think about the first man that she killed (the one that bit the coin) or the apprentice assassin that was following her.

So, I expect two possible solutions:

1.       Arya is just impulsive and is ignoring everything she learnt.

2.       Arya is cheating Littlefinger at his own game, with the support of Sansa, who also learnt a lot from Littlefinger.

In the end, the conclusion may be:

1.       This is the last lesson Arya and Sansa learn from Littlefinger before finding out his plan and killing him.

2.       Arya and Sansa do not need any further lesson from him and are going to kill him.

3.       Sansa is going to betray her family.

This is a very important observation.  I questioned before why an FM would spy on someone while wearing her true face.  The obvious answer would be that she WANTS to be seen spying on him.  More fuel for the Arya is playing LF playing Arya theory.

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8 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

This is a very important observation.  I questioned before why an FM would spy on someone while wearing her true face.  The obvious answer would be that she WANTS to be seen spying on him.  More fuel for the Arya is playing LF playing Arya theory.

Right ok so some plausible evidence to show she is playing LF. But answer these questions.....

  1. Why is she threatening Sansa?
  2. Why hasnt she told Sansa?

 

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Just now, Samwell_Tarly said:

Right ok so some plausible evidence to show she is playing LF.

  1. Why is she threatening Sansa?
  2. Why hasnt she told Sansa?

 

1. She is threatening Sansa to give LF a sense that his scheme is working.

2. We don't know that she hasn't told Sansa.  But if she hasn't, and this is her ploy, she's taking a huge risk of it backfiring.  Although she's pretty much Invincible Supergirl Ninja Warrior at this point on the show, so I don't know who would/could kill her.  Perhaps it's HER the NK is after :P

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3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

1. She is threatening Sansa to give LF a sense that his scheme is working.

Could be....

Quote

2. We don't know that she hasn't told Sansa.  But if she hasn't, and this is her ploy, she's taking a huge risk of it backfiring.  Although she's pretty much Invincible Supergirl Ninja Warrior at this point on the show, so I don't know who would/could kill her.  Perhaps it's HER the NK is after :P

  1. Why hasnt Sana asked where she got the note from??
  2. How would she have known about this note?

All Arya needs to answer is I got it from LF bed cos he was hiding it from you? But the problem is would Arya believe it? This is where BRan will step in and come of some fucking use. Instead of sat in the Godswood wanking over Sansas rape scene.

 

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Just now, Samwell_Tarly said:

Could be....

  1. Why hasnt Sana asked where she GOT the note from??
  2. How would she have known about this note?

All Arya needs to answer is I got it from LF bed cos he was hiding it from you? But the problem is would Arya believe it? This is where BRan will step in and come of some fucking use. Instead of sat in the Godswood wanking over Sansas rape scene.

 

At this point in the story, Sansa doesn't know Arya has a note.

"I found this hidden in LF's chamber" would be weaksauce and easy for LF to deflect.  "I heard mention that Maester Lewin kept every raven, my Lady, and had this one removed to protect your reputation.  I understand that you were a little girl under duress when that was written, but the lords and ladies of the North may not."

I honestly think that they are doing everything they can to give LF an intriguing death, given the importance his own intriques have played in the story.  An unceremonious assassination would not fit for him.

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4 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Makes no sense for Arya not to be Arya. The only person she could be is the Waif, and what purpose in the story line would this serve....

Arya is Arya is Arya is Arya

This can't be said enough.  

Besides, Nymeria would have torn the throat out of notArya.

 

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Unless the magic also convinces animals....

 

I think it's more important to note that Arya recognized Nymeria.  Though someone had mentioned that it looks like when a FM takes on a face, they take on much of the knowledge and memories of the person it belonged to.  But then that would negate the necessity of the Waif grilling Arya for details of her life.

 

I'm in the Arya is Arya camp, but there are things that happened that stand no reason if that is so.

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3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I'm in the Arya is Arya camp, but there are things that happened that stand no reason if that is so.

There is so much in the entire series that have occurred and are head scratchers.  Lol

Still searching the grocery store for the soup that heals stomach stabs. 

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