ShadowKitteh Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 18 hours ago, lakin1013 said: Even if that ends up to be the direct way to end the war, the NK looks pretty formidable to me. And we still have the question of the purpose of Bran and we still do not really understand the fundamental purpose of Jon. I do not think this is going to be simple at all. Seems to me the books and show have made it clear that Walkers ≠ Wights. Wights are reanimated dead controlled by Walkers. Walkers are far more sentient, and were made from the living - like Craster's baby - hence the difference in the eyes. Walker eyes appear to be all Iris. Whereas Wight eyes, have a normal Iris, that is as blue as the former white part of the eye. I think Viserion is a Walker - like Craster's baby, and wasn't all the way dead when he was turned by the Night King. Otherwise, if he was all the way dead, the NK would have just risen him from the lake without the use of chains, like he did to al the corpses at Hardhome. That will lend more plot possibilities like breathing fire, melting a breach in the Wall, and being able to be worged by Bran. The Children of the Forest scene has taught us that if you make a sentient weapon, there is a possibility it will turn against you. I think that's how they're going to be able to finally beat the Night King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said: The Children of the Forest has taught us that if you make a sentient weapon, there is a possibility it will turn against you. I think that's how they're going to be able to finally beat the Night King. This is a brilliant proposal, I expect too brilliant for D&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood on the Saddle Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 The denouement of the AoD/NK/WW problem must explain why dead people rise up - and more. They made a commitment to this when Jon and Dany went into the cave and saw the prehistoric inscriptions and drawings. What I'm saying may not fit in with D&D's idea, but it seems to me necessary if the series ending is to be anything but just an interruption, if it is to be at all satisfying in itself. In human mythology, there is a level where you have deities, gods, but then there is a level closer to the earth where you have CoF and other things. The AoD cannot be a natural necessity in things. The idea that the CoF created the AoD (or just the Walkers) as protection against men could be true, But it is not possible to say, OK, let's drive them back into the ice until the next winter. Dead people's corpses cannot "rise up" in a normal universe. (As an aside, I think it's interesting that lots of people complain about physically impossible things (teleportation, etc.), but the idea of zombies doesn't seem hard to accept (I guess most people are conditioned to think of zombies as possible). Lots of things need to be explained. The swirls, for example. But it's not just a matter of explanation. In the ultimate finale, the AoD and NK must cease to exist (if they are really against the nature of the world) - or else some much larger purpose has to be set forth, according to which the dead are not really "dead", that is, they have nothing to do with the persons they once were! They are just animated corpses (and again, that's as alien to physics as anything else in the show that strains credulity). I wouldn't be surprised if they tweaked the Jon=Targ circumstance so that Jon and Dany are not nephew and aunt. They are going to get it on, get ready for that. There is one more thing that occurred to me. I hate the fact that ...Viserion. I'm hoping that they will take it easy on showing animals dying in future. I walked out of Dances with Wolves, and if they start doing anything to wolves - I will immediately stop watching. If it comes to having to kill Viserion, it's still two against one and Dany will be smarter. But there's a job that Viserion might be perfect for - destroying the Wall. The Wall is coming down Sunday, I feel it. I think we already know that the Dragonpit will end in a successful negotiation - but then Cersei will not do what she promises to do. Cersei is insane, they've been working up to that, but I think I see it in her face now, they are getting her to bug her eyes a little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 They've already killed four wolves......Only Nymeria and Ghost remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iprayiam Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, Blood on the Saddle said: (As an aside, I think it's interesting that lots of people complain about physically impossible things (teleportation, etc.), but the idea of zombies doesn't seem hard to accept (I guess most people are conditioned to think of zombies as possible). Sigh.. for the millionth time, strawman is strawman. There's nothing interesting about mischaracterizing people's complaints. It's about internal consistency, not what is "possible". Zombie exists =/= anything goes in Westeros. Put another way, are you suggesting that because there are fantasy elements in the show, you would be ok with *anything* happening from a logical perspective? What if Jamie was suddenly able to run 100 mph with no explanation, and the writers defended as a way to get him into battles faster? What if Theon grew a new member because the writers wanted him to be a lady's man again? What if Arya turned into a pile of spaghetti? What if Tyrion was suddenly invincible with no explanation. All of these things are impossible but hey zombies, so it's fine? Any new element needs to happen with consistency to the world that's been built, which means it's needs explanation or needs to be explicitly set up as confusing, unbelievable, or mysterious to characters and it can't contradict things that have existed/happened before. Analogy time: Because Tyrion has been hurt in the show, if he were suddenly invincible it needs either: An explanation, Acknowledgement of mystery, or not to happen. Now, because travel times and general laws of physics have existed in the show, magical travel times need 1,2, or 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pip Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Deminelle said: Suicide mission? If there's one my bet is on Gendry. He seems expendable... Or is this chance for Tyrion to become a hero? He tries to stop Daenerys from flying to rescue Jon. Daenerys earlier told him that he's no hero but he's brave. In GOT everyone is expendable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, iprayiam said: There's nothing interesting about mischaracterizing people's complaints. It's about internal consistency, not what is "possible". Zombie exists =/= anything goes in Westeros. An explanation, Acknowledgement of mystery, or not to happen. Now, because travel times and general laws of physics have existed in the show, magical travel times need 1,2, or 3. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 6 hours ago, legba11 said: Couldn't they just kill the children who made the NK and end the whole Army of Darkness? The transitive property of monster killing seems to indicate this. But the White Walkers already killed Leaf, the one who made the NK. And all of the other surviving Children. If that would kill them all, they'd already be done. Which is more evidence that the monster killing isn't transitive; it's just the wights, because they are dead flesh animated directly by their Walkers—unlike the NK and the other Walkers, who are something completely different. And really, the only evidence in the other direction is Beric's desperate guess that it might be true. Jon didn't buy it. Beric openly acknowledges that he knows nothing about any of this. Why are people putting so much stock in that line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nborders Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 They need to just have both dragons charge at the Night King at the same time. He can only throw one spear at a time, right? Simple enough. One more dragon is lost, but the war is won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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