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AlaskanSandman

Bael & Queen Alyssane (Updating)

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42 minutes ago, divica said:

Do you know this is?

because it is probably that the naked woman is na event between this scene and lyanna and benjen fighting

Hmmm, not too sure about this being not-so-Good Queen Alysanne. She rode north with several dragons to intimidate the north (not the customary one dragon), including their culture and Magic’s, and worked to distract the Watch from their purpose by closing Night Fort, and stole land from the Starks and gave to the Watch (which also had a negative impact).  She and the septon Hand of the KIng did their best to make a division in Westeros that is having huge ramifications in the story now. 

And, we know that all current Stark boys always seem to have a “spear” wife around. ;) This just shows history repeats. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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29 minutes ago, Artos Cold said:

Barristan was referring to Jaehaerys II in those parts, not the Conciliator. 

Thank you, thought something was up with it and completely didn't notice the grandfather part. Thought it didn't sounds right and that's why i mentioned it. Thankfully nothing that the theory hinged on 

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5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hmmm, not too sure about this being not-so-Good Queen Alysanne. She rode north with several dragons to intimidate the north (not the customary one dragon), including their culture and Magic’s, and worked to distract the Watch from their purpose by closing Night Fort, and stole land from the Starks and gave to the Watch (which also had a negative impact).  She and the septon Hand of the KIng did their best to make a division in Westeros that is having huge ramifications in the story now. 

And, we know that all current Stark boys always seem to have a “spear” wife around. ;) This just shows history repeats. 

Good point and great catch. Like i've said before, there is definitely a lot of moving pieces that make the whole picture a wily thing to try to hold and look at :) 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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14 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hmmm, not too sure about this being not-so-Good Queen Alysanne. She rode north with several dragons to intimidate the north (not the customary one dragon), including their culture and Magic’s, and worked to distract the Watch from their purpose by closing Night Fort, and stole land from the Starks and gave to the Watch (which also had a negative impact).  She and the septon Hand of the KIng did their best to make a division in Westeros that is having huge ramifications in the story now. 

And, we know that all current Stark boys always seem to have a “spear” wife around. ;) This just shows history repeats. 

Talk  to me about your view about the period. Some days ago I was talking about how the faith/citadel might have influenced the opinion of the people about maegor's cruelty and nobody agreed so I am fairly interested in your opinion. You can pm me if you don t want to talk about it in this topic that isn t really related.

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1 minute ago, divica said:

Talk  to me about your view about the period. Some days ago I was talking about how the faith/citadel might have influenced the opinion of the people about maegor's cruelty and nobody agreed so I am fairly interested in your opinion. You can pm me if you don t want to talk about it in this topic that isn t really related.

It's all connected, it's all related haha up to you guy's but i dont mind and love hearing the opinions, especially if their born out of thought's from here :)

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23 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Good point and great catch. Like i've said before, there is definitely a lot of moving pieces that make the whole picture a wily thing to try to hold and look at :) 

True. Many connected parts that are fun to parse out. 

11 minutes ago, divica said:

Talk  to me about your view about the period. Some days ago I was talking about how the faith/citadel might have influenced the opinion of the people about maegor's cruelty and nobody agreed so I am fairly interested in your opinion. You can pm me if you don t want to talk about it in this topic that isn t really related.

 

9 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

It's all connected, it's all related haha up to you guy's but i dont mind and love hearing the opinions, especially if their born out of thought's from here :)

I’d love to share more on this, but give me a little time and (hopefully) I will post more in a few short hours. 

My forum time has been very limited lately because of many special requests for the work I do. That said, “Good” Queen Alysanne is a fun topic for me. 

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You've organized your points well but I just don't buy it. Mainly because if the story about Bael actually happened, it would have had to be before the conquest. And a fairly long time before at that. Because I doubt the Bolton's could get away with skinning a Lord Stark without sparking a war between Winterfell and the Dreadfort, and we're told that there hasn't been one of those since before the Conquest.

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1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

True. Many connected parts that are fun to parse out. 

 

I’d love to share more on this, but give me a little time and (hopefully) I will post more in a few short hours. 

My forum time has been very limited lately because of many special requests for the work I do. That said, “Good” Queen Alysanne is a fun topic for me. 

Hahaha yea today i actually had a bunch of free time and the day off so i thought i would try to squeeze out a couple good ones. Did one on Mel earlier that i've been wanting to do for a while, but Alysanne is definitely and interesting character along with Barth and Jaehaerys :) Look forward to hearing more later

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Just now, Adam Yozza said:

You've organized your points well but I just don't buy it. Mainly because if the story about Bael actually happened, it would have had to be before the conquest. And a fairly long time before at that. Because I doubt the Bolton's could get away with skinning a Lord Stark without sparking a war between Winterfell and the Dreadfort, and we're told that there hasn't been one of those since before the Conquest.

Well i think Ramsay would prove you wrong.

I get what your saying though. 
I just think that out of all the given evidence, that one being the main one to work against it isn't likely. Specially given how easy that actually would be to hide, like say Ed Gein or Dahmer. 

More evidence would seem to support that it was when they were lords, shortly after kneeling as the Kings road is mentioned which Jaehaerys built. Among others. 

But totally just a theory :)

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All of this has me wondering who the L.C of the watch was around the time this was all going on? Specially with the Night Fort getting closed down which is where the Black Gate is (Which who knows what that effected), the SnowGate getting switced to the Queen's Gate and the Watch being moved to Castle Black, and the War against Bael sometime in that 30 year time span.

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Added timeline tree that i think helps pin point these events to 38AC or 39Ac for Bael the Bard meeting Alysanne, then the war 30 years later happening in either 78 or 79 AC. 

This would make Jaehaerys roughly 44 or 45 years old at the time of the war at the wall.

Which makes sense why Jaehaerys married his sister despite trying to make peace with the Faith. She had a bastard and he wanted to hide it.

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Could Bael the Bard and Alysanne's child have been a daughter? 

It would explain why Bael couldn't face them in battle.

It would also explain how Bael's blood was then mixed into the Stark family who had adopted his daughter who then wed her foster brother, the Lord of Winterfell.

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Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon I

"A cloak?"
"The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadow-cat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said.
"I left the next morning . . . for a place where a kiss was not a crime, and a man could wear any cloak he chose." He closed the clasp and sat back down again. "And you, Jon Snow?"
 
So Jon and Dany share his blood, and the woman in the Village Queen's Crown healed him. Alysanne. They then had a daughter together. Which would explain Mance and the Blue Winter Rose crown. Mance hooked up with a descendant of Alysanne. Val and her sister.
 
Mance may have been the Knight in the Laughing Tree who met Rheagar and gave him the crown to give to Lyanna upon winning. Mance may have even glamoured him self as Rhaegar. 
 
Quote

A Feast for Crows - Jaime I

"Then guard the king," Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. "When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."
Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime's shoulder. "When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return."
Those were the last words Rhaegar Targaryen ever spoke to him. Outside the gates an army had assembled, whilst another descended on the Trident. So the Prince of Dragonstone mounted up and donned his tall black helm, and rode forth to his doom.
 
 
The Tourney of Harrenhal
 
Edited by AlaskanSandman

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This may explain the Starks staying out of most of the southren affairs. The Hour of the Wolf during the Dance? He just walked away from the Throne?

The Starks are tied to the Targaryens by blood and it would seem to me that they made a possible pact of Ice and Fire so as not to oppose Targaryen succession. So thus, no one was aware of this all.

Unlike say, House Blackfyre. Or House Baratheon. 

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On 1/7/2018 at 2:28 PM, Artos Cold said:

Barristan was referring to Jaehaerys II in those parts, not the Conciliator. 

I removed it just encase either way :) wasn't important anyways really. Also updated tree of events at end. Put in Brandon Snow and sister who married Ronnel Arryn

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Did Bael take both the daughter of the North (Stark) and Alysanne (south)? 

As Aegon had Rhaenys and Visenya?

Did Mance take Lyanna and Ashara Dayne? and if so? Where was Rhaegar who was obsessed with prophecy? 

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                                                       I-------------------------------------I

                 Bael the Bard===== Stark Female                 Stark Male=====Alysanne Targaryen

                                           I                                                                  I

                                        son                                              Gael the Winter Child Tagaryen

                                Born in the Crypts                                     Born at Queens Crown Tower

 

Mirror Events should be then

 

                                                           I--------------------------------------------------I

          Rhaegar or Mance ==== Lyanna Stark                                       Eddard or Brandon Stark=======Ashara Dayne

                                            I                                                                                                               I

                                    Jon Snow                                                                                          Daenerys Targaryen

                                Born in the Crypts?                                                                                 The Tower of Joy?

 

Quote

 

Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to WinterfellJon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

 

 Jon was already in the North when Cat arrived

 

Thoughts?

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The whole premise doesn't make any sense considering that the idea that a Bolton could have skinned Bael's son alive during the reign of Jaehaerys I or Viserys I is so outlandish that it doesn't deserve to be considered.

Bael the Bard was King-beyond-the-Wall long before the Conquest.

There may have been some trouble with the wildlings and dragonriders and king's men making expeditions in the lands beyond the Wall when Jaehaerys I and Alysanne visited the Wall, but if there was any conflict at that time it wouldn't have involved a king-beyond-the-Wall. And most definitely not Bael.

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