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As I reread AFfC for the 4th time, I have been noticing more details here and there. I have read many theories on Arianne Martell and why she didn't tell Arys to yield, but there are none on Arys himself. So my theory is fairly straight forward. It is that even if Arianne had told him to yield, he would not have. I don't know if he had planned his assisted suicide from the start or if it was spur of the moment, but I think Arys knew if he was captured, his relationship with Arianne would be exposed as well as his treason to crown Mrycella. I think he then essentially commited suicide thinking a valiant death may allow him to keep his honor and at least hide his relationship with Arianne protecting her honor (he was concerned with that as he seemed to not understand that Arianne having him as a paramour was okay in Dornish culture). I don't have any evidence as we don't have his thoughts on his final actions, but I guess results speak for themselves. Arys honor was in fact kept intact. Neither his affair nor treason was revealed. So, anyways that is my theory.

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I agree with you. Facing Areo ("Speedwagon") Hotah would have given Ser Arys the perfect way out of his dilemma. I could envision him thinking If I can take down Hotah, we can all escape. If I can't, then my broken vows and treason will be washed away and Arianne is protected as well. Win-win! In a sense, it was Arys's only reasonable choice.

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I've only read it once and I always thought he essentially committed suicide-by-cop.

I'm also starting to wonder if he also switched the girls before they got to Dorne, in case of trouble. 

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14 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

As I reread AFfC for the 4th time, I have been noticing more details here and there. I have read many theories on Arianne Martell and why she didn't tell Arys to yield, but there are none on Arys himself. So my theory is fairly straight forward. It is that even if Arianne had told him to yield, he would not have. I don't know if he had planned his assisted suicide from the start or if it was spur of the moment, but I think Arys knew if he was captured, his relationship with Arianne would be exposed as well as his treason to crown Mrycella. I think he then essentially commited suicide thinking a valiant death may allow him to keep his honor and at least hide his relationship with Arianne protecting her honor (he was concerned with that as he seemed to not understand that Arianne having him as a paramour was okay in Dornish culture). I don't have any evidence as we don't have his thoughts on his final actions, but I guess results speak for themselves. Arys honor was in fact kept intact. Neither his affair nor treason was revealed. So, anyways that is my theory.

He was a relatively young man who aside from skill as a knight, did not have a lot of real world experience, which is why he was so easily manipulated by Arianne to cross his king. It seems his death was very much a suicidal charge. The realization that the plot he was deeply involved in was revealed, and that he would be a traitor was probably enough to drive him to his death 

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1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I'm also starting to wonder if he also switched the girls before they got to Dorne, in case of trouble. 

Doubt that Aerys had the smarts or calculating personality to even think of this. He's a sword, not a plotter.

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

He was a relatively young man who aside from skill as a knight, did not have a lot of real world experience, which is why he was so easily manipulated by Arianne to cross his king.

Seems like most of the men in ASOIAF are easily controlled by sex. This would work even better on those who had been celibate for some number of years, like anyone in the Kingsguard.

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You have to admit that it's really suspicious. If Arys dies, then the only person who may know about some Myrcella deception is dead. 
"Myrcella will be safest if no one knows just where she is." -AFFC 

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6 hours ago, zandru said:

Doubt that Aerys had the smarts or calculating personality to even think of this. He's a sword, not a plotter.

<snip

One could say the same of Ser Duncan the Tall, but his brain did come through from time to time. And it's also possible, if a switch occurred before they got to Dorne, that it was on someone else's orders (like Tyrion's). Somebody came up with the idea to send the lookalike cousin along, and there's really only one reason to do so. 

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10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Somebody came up with the idea to send the lookalike cousin along, and there's really only one reason to do so. 

So that the cousin could stand in during potentially dangerous situations? Well, yeah. But notice that there are differences in appearance, and it's Myrcella who has the classic Lannister gold curls. What you're suggesting is that Ariane and the rest of the Martel court never knew Myrcella, just "Myrcella." I reject this as too convoluted and weird. But that may be all it takes to convince some - your mileage will vary!

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On 2/20/2018 at 9:31 AM, zandru said:

So that the cousin could stand in during potentially dangerous situations? Well, yeah. But notice that there are differences in appearance, and it's Myrcella who has the classic Lannister gold curls. What you're suggesting is that Ariane and the rest of the Martel court never knew Myrcella, just "Myrcella." I reject this as too convoluted and weird. But that may be all it takes to convince some - your mileage will vary!

What I'm suggesting is that the author put in a lookalike for a reason. Little Rosamund is Chekov's cousin. It's just that it will be far more believable that there was a switch if it happened before Arianne and company got to know Myrcella and/or her stunt double. 

The best arguments in favor of a late switch being pulled off are 1) they leave in the dark, 2) that scene with Ser Of The Night is also in the dark, and 3) during the day there are veils to protect the ladies' delicate skin, so by the time she's lost an ear they're too busy being horrified and looking at all the blood to notice she's the wrong girl.

The only appreciable difference between the two girls is that Rosamund's hair is straight, while Myrcella's is curly. And we all know that straight hair can be curled.

LOL at the bolded. If convoluted or weird are problems for you, you may be reading the wrong series. Besides which it's actually not convoluted at all. You have a lookalike, the situation is dangerous, you pull a switch and the decoy is caught in the crossfire. It's actually pretty darn simple. It's no more weird than the idea that Darkstar the badass (per GRRM) can't even kill a little girl when everyone else is looking the other way, yet almost everyone seems to believe that.

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On 2/19/2018 at 5:45 PM, Pride of Driftmark said:

You have to admit that it's really suspicious. If Arys dies, then the only person who may know about some Myrcella deception is dead. 
"Myrcella will be safest if no one knows just where she is." -AFFC 

:agree: And there's no way Doran is risking 15+ years of scheming if he can avoid it. 

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On 19/02/2018 at 8:39 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I'm also starting to wonder if he also switched the girls before they got to Dorne, in case of trouble. 

Possible, though it might be hard to believe that two young girls could keep up that level of subterfuge for so long. 

10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

What I'm suggesting is that the author put in a lookalike for a reason.

Definitely, lookalike is certainly going to be an important part of the story.

10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

It's just that it will be far more believable that there was a switch if it happened before Arianne and company got to know Myrcella and/or her stunt double.

That's a very good point. 

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On 19/2/2018 at 2:47 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

 Arys knew if he was captured, his relationship with Arianne would be exposed as well as his treason to crown Mrycella. 

 

Arys is a man with a constant feeling of guilt. He takes part in a seditious quest. He has broken his Kingsguard vows many, many times. As someone said above: Arys is a young man with little real-world experience, manipulated by someone more intelligent than him. I doubt he really knew the depth of what was happening around him.

The suicidal charge that he makes when he is surprised by Areo is also, for me, blind. If you have lived with stress, you will know that sometimes your acts are not measured, but impulsive, because that stress can also blind your reasoning. I think that was the case with Arys.

Edited by Jon Fossoway

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14 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

If convoluted or weird are problems for you, you may be reading the wrong series.

Yeah, well I guess Mance Rayder really is Ned Stark, and our little Bran Stark has controlled all of time and space and everyone's dreams since Westeros was settled by the First Men, and Tyrion is the illegitimate son of Joanna Lannister Lannister and Rhaegar Targaryen, and Craster is a Stark and the Night's King and leader of the Zombie Horde. I'll wait for further details from George RR before making up my mind. Having Myrcella being safe and hidden as her cousin also seems like cheap, cliched plotting. (So there!  ;-)

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13 hours ago, zandru said:

Yeah, well I guess Mance Rayder really is Ned Stark, and our little Bran Stark has controlled all of time and space and everyone's dreams since Westeros was settled by the First Men, and Tyrion is the illegitimate son of Joanna Lannister Lannister and Rhaegar Targaryen, and Craster is a Stark and the Night's King and leader of the Zombie Horde. I'll wait for further details from George RR before making up my mind. Having Myrcella being safe and hidden as her cousin also seems like cheap, cliched plotting. (So there!  ;-)

Makes as much sense as some of the theories out there. ;)

Edited by Lady Blizzardborn

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