Second son Prince vs Great House firstborn

[Lee-Sensei]

Which is the better marriage option?

[Wolf's Bane]

You mean a Targaryen or Baratheon prince versus the heir to a great house.  Viserys Targaryen + Tommen Baratheon vs. Brandon Stark + Robin Arryn.  The answer is complicated.  It depends on how many people in the line of succession are ahead of the prince.  It depends on what the bride's house is in need of.  Do they desire prestige or wealth.  Go with the prince if the girl's house is already rich and they want social elevation.  Go with the heir to a rich house if the girl's family is in need of cash.  

[Ylath's Snout]

I'd say it depends, are we talking Targs during an era where they were functional or a Aerys/Joff situation? If the king/prince is the sort of nut-bag that is just begging for a rebellion and you know it then nope.

Personally I think that the great Houses would be tiered:

Lannister and Tyrell has a lot of gold, large armies, great political clout and impressive fleets. A very good match that is about as good as a second prince. From a practical point of view they might be better.

Stark, Tully, Baratheon and Arryn. They each are lacking in some areas but is still very impressive. Tullys have great riches but gets beaten on in every war, the Stark seem to have a hereditary hatred of owning a navy, if  Robert's Rebellion is anything to go by then both Baratheon and Arryn has some sever political issues inside their respective realms.

Martell, they are very impressive on paper (you'd still get to marry a prince for once) but while their culture seems like the most pleasant to be a part of is also isolates them from the rest of Westeros. Add to that a dwindling population that can support a large army anymore and this seems like a pretty bad match, comparatively.

Greyjoy... I can't remember who but I distinctly remember a Lannister woman that married with a Greyjoy got her face ruined when her husband died and her son reverted all his reforms. Now they do have a very good navy but their maritime potential is wasted on upholding the horrible traditions of reaving. This is the only match that might marr the honor and reputation of your house.

[Lee-Sensei]

39 minutes ago, Ylath's Snout said:

I'd say it depends, are we talking Targs during an era where they were functional or a Aerys/Joff situation? If the king/prince is the sort of nut-bag that is just begging for a rebellion and you know it then nope.

Personally I think that the great Houses would be tiered:

Lannister and Tyrell has a lot of gold, large armies, great political clout and impressive fleets. A very good match that is about as good as a second prince. From a practical point of view they might be better.

Stark, Tully, Baratheon and Arryn. They each are lacking in some areas but is still very impressive. Tullys have great riches but gets beaten on in every war, the Stark seem to have a hereditary hatred of owning a navy, if  Robert's Rebellion is anything to go by then both Baratheon and Arryn has some sever political issues inside their respective realms.

Martell, they are very impressive on paper (you'd still get to marry a prince for once) but while their culture seems like the most pleasant to be a part of is also isolates them from the rest of Westeros. Add to that a dwindling population that can support a large army anymore and this seems like a pretty bad match, comparatively.

Greyjoy... I can't remember who but I distinctly remember a Lannister woman that married with a Greyjoy got her face ruined when her husband died and her son reverted all his reforms. Now they do have a very good navy but their maritime potential is wasted on upholding the horrible traditions of reaving. This is the only match that might marr the honor and reputation of your house.

Hagon the Heartless permitted the mutilation of his mother, Lelia Lannister. He overthrew his brother and did away with his reforms.

[Son of Man]

The houses are prideful people and it is most about status.  The better choice in most cases is the Prince.  I do not recall an example of a pauper second prince.  Well, except Bran the Homeless Prince.  Viserys became the Beggar King and not a prince after Rhaella crowned him.

[Bernie Mac]

Depends on the character, but I'd guess most would opt for the Prince. Being related to the King by marriage is going to bring about a lot of influence and prestige. It is not all about having a future granddchild rule (something that is likely to happen after you are dead) but to be in a position to gain as much power and influence in the short term. 

Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar's wife to die in childbed.

Tywin, after Rhaegar had married and became a dad, could have focused on trying to gain either Edmure, Robert, Rodrik Greyjoy or even Jon Arryn or  Baelor Hightower (pretty much a great house) for his daughter Cersei but he still saw the two top prizes being the Targaryen Princes. 

[Ylath's Snout]

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

but he still saw the two top prizes being the Targaryen Princes.

Yes, but in part I get the feeling that Tywin had a obsession with getting a Lannister onto the throne. If Cersei married Viserys I get the feeling he would do whatever he could to have Aerys set aside Rhaegar for lil' V.

2 hours ago, Son of Man said:

The better choice in most cases is the Prince.

Marrying a prince is always going to be more prestigious but depending on your situation you might have other needs that are trumped by prestige.

9 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

Hagon the Heartless permitted the mutilation of his mother, Lelia Lannister. He overthrew his brother and did away with his reforms.

Ahh well, still plenty messed up.

[Lady Winter Rose]

4 hours ago, Ylath's Snout said:

Yes, but in part I get the feeling that Tywin had a obsession with getting a Lannister onto the throne. If Cersei married Viserys I get the feeling he would do whatever he could to have Aerys set aside Rhaegar for lil' V.

Marrying a prince is always going to be more prestigious but depending on your situation you might have other needs that are trumped by prestige.

 

I kind of get your point, but in medieval times brides got less than grooms because of tradition of drowny or whatever it is spelled. That's part of reason women are being less desired as daughters in medieval times and today's China. You need lots of cash to marry your daughters.

I might be wrong, I'm just quoting my ex history professor.

 

Also, prince marriages are limited, so you might not care for prestige if you think you wouldn't get one. I'm more curious if you could elaborate which needs do you think of. I'm fairly sure lands or money can't replace the fact you are getting less in marriage of your daughter.

[Ylath's Snout]

43 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I'm more curious if you could elaborate which needs do you think of. I'm fairly sure lands or money can't replace the fact you are getting less in marriage of your daughter.

First of most alliances could ensure that you have a secure flank while planning a war. Only having to fight a one or two front war compared to a three front one can make massive difference during a war or while trying to negotiate.

Let's do one for each great House:

Stark, they have a sizable army and are seemingly among the most unified of the kingdoms. Meaning that if you can get them to agree with whatever you are planning they will come through for you. The Stormlands and Reach have larger armies but as we can see during Robert's Rebellion and Wot5K there is a lot of infighting with large chunks of those realms following someone other than their liege lords.

Greyjoy, best navy in T7K a very impressive feat when you consider that they seems to be the poorest. Either they can fill the need for a fleet if you lack one or if you already have on than you can enjoy pretty much total naval superiority in whatever scheme you are plotting.

Lannister, hooo boy. It is all about that gold. Aside from solving any economic troubles you might have or making long term investments Lannister gold allows you to engage in economic warfare. Buying up debt, subsiding competitors and price dumping are just some of the scummy thing you could do to crash your opponents economy. That not always going to work but sellsword are a thing.

Arryn, they have a army but seems to have some unity issues so that not without problems. What they do have is a fantastically defensible homeland. In any conflict the Arryns can just holdout behind their mountains and walls. Always threatening to spring forth and bring the pain with a fresh army. So in any conflict in middle-Westeros they will tie down a lot a enemy troops without suffering from raids or such. Also they have highly productive agriculture (that is very safe from ruin-via-raiding) so your family will hopefully be safe from starvation, with can be a pretty big deal.

Tully. They control the Riverlands (if all Frey lord are blackmailers and cravens like Walder then that might be a big problem but ehh) meaning that your armies can pass through without having to fight all the way or make some sort of last minute deal. If your enemies include the Starks then the Twins can be used to lock them and their bannermen out of the conflict for a long time. During peacetime the Riverlands are a crossroads for the rest of Westeros resulting in plenty of triad, that can lead to all sorts of opportunities.

Baratheon (assuming they aren't the kings) they rule a pretty chaos realm considering that during Wot5k Stormlands backed three different kings. But they still seem to have one heck of an army poised to strike any of the southern Westerosi realms. Maybe they are a bit of a one-trick pony but that trick sure can deliver.

Tyrell. Same as the Lannister. Cash Rules Everything Around Me is still true on Planetos.

Martell. Back in history they would be a very impressive match but their declining population is a really big limiter. That said, if your girl is a bastard then the Martells are pretty much the only ones that might even consider the match.

Getting a second prince is nice in a lot of ways but the King is likely to prioritise his dynasty follow by his queens family, the family of the first prince and then your family. That might not be a problem but if your second prince and the family of the first prince has some sort of conflict you are likely to lose out. When did Robert ever favor the Florents over the Lannisters?