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norwaywolf123

Has the song of ice and fire already happened?

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Many have thought that the title "the song of ice and fire" refers to intermarriage or coupling between a Stark and a Targaryen. Often this is used to argue that Daenerys will marry Jon Snow and/or R+L=J. The theories of "prince that was promised" and "azor ahai" are sometimes argued to be product of "the song og ice and fire". But what if there already have been a Stark Targaryen crossing?

Rhaenys Targaryen(Aegon the Conqueror's sister wife) arranged a marriage between Lord Ronnel Arryn and a daughter of Lord Torrhen Stark. Ronnel Arryn was later murdered by his brother Jonnel, who inturn was executed by Maegor "the cruel" Targaryen. Ronnel was later succeded by his cousing Hubert Arryn. We know that House Arryn descends from this Hubert Arryn. Hubert Arryn had 6 sons, and no daughters as far as we know. Ronnel had children with his Stark wife and we do not know their fate. Therefore we cannot rule out that Ronnel's children survived. If Ronnel had any sons they would have a stronger claim than Hubert. On the other hand if Ronnel had daughters then the solution would be to marry one of Ronnel's daughter to one of Hubert's son. Even if Ronnel had both sons and daughters, the marriage of Ronnels daughters to Hubert's son would strenghten Hubert's heir's claim and that of his descendants.

Aemma Arryn was the daughter of Rodrik Arryn and Daella Targaryen. If Rodrik Arryn had some descent from Ronnel Arryn then Aemma would have some Targaryen blood. Aemma Arryn was the mother of Rhaneyra Targaryen(Aemma's only child who lived beyond infancy). Rhaneyra is the ancestor of all members of House Targaryen since Aegon 3. That would mean that Daenerys and Rhaegar both descend from her.

If we think of the marriage of Aemma Arryn and Viserys 1 Targaryen as "the song of ice and fire" and then consider their descendants as candidates for "Azor Ahai" and/or "the prince that was promised" then we get alot more candidates to chose from.

Could R+L=J really be smoke screen for the real "Azor Ahai" and/or "prince that was promised"? What about the potential pairing of Jon Snow+Danerys Targaryen is that too just smoke screen?

Perhaps Rennifer Longwaters is "the prince that was promised"? 

Edited by norwaywolf123

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I think it has nothing to do with any pairings or Azor Ahai or whatever other characters. As GRRM himself explained it's about the world ending and it overall describes what's been going on in the book:

Quote

George R. R. Martin has said that he was influenced by Robert Frost's poem Fire and Ice:

I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.

 
Quote

Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

 

I think what's a smoke screen is the imagined need for TPTWP to be a genetic mix of ice and fire. If the prophecy is not a smoke screen in itself (and I wouldn't be surprised), ASOIAF is the song of TPTWP = a song about the world ending is the song of TPTWP because TPTWP will save the world.

Edited by wia

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11 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

But what if there already have been a Stark Targaryen crossing?

There has been. His name is Jon Snow. His parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. 

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10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There has been. His name is Jon Snow. His parents are Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. 

I mentioned R+L=J

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 1:29 PM, norwaywolf123 said:

Many have thought that the title "the song of ice and fire" refers to intermarriage or coupling between a Stark and a Targaryen. Often this is used to argue that Daenerys will marry Jon Snow and/or R+L=J. The theories of "prince that was promised" and "azor ahai" are sometimes argued to be product of "the song og ice and fire". But what if there already have been a Stark Targaryen crossing?

Rhaena Targaryen(Aegon the Conqueror's sister wife) arranged a marriage between Lord Ronnel Arryn and a daughter of Lord Torrhen Stark. Ronnel Arryn was later murdered by his brother Jonnel, who inturn was executed by Maegor "the cruel" Targaryen. Ronnel was later succeded by his cousing Hubert Arryn. We know that House Arryn descends from this Hubert Arryn. Hubert Arryn had 6 sons, and no daughters as far as we know. Ronnel had children with his Stark wife and we do not know their fate. Therefore we cannot rule out that Ronnel's children survived. If Ronnel had any sons they would have a stronger claim than Hubert. On the other hand if Ronnel had daughters then the solution would be to marry one of Ronnel's daughter to one of Hubert's son. Even if Ronnel had both sons and daughters, the marriage of Ronnels daughters to Hubert's son would strenghten Hubert's heir's claim and that of his descendants.

Aemma Arryn was the daughter of Rodrik Arryn and Daella Targaryen. If Rodrik Arryn had some descent from Ronnel Arryn then Aemma would have some Targaryen blood. Aemma Arryn was the mother of Rhaneyra Targaryen(Aemma's only child who lived beyond infancy). Rhaneyra is the ancestor of all members of House Targaryen since Aegon 3. That would mean that Daenerys and Rhaegar both descend from her.

If we think of the marriage of Aemma Arryn and Viserys 1 Targaryen as "the song of ice and fire" and then consider their descendants as candidates for "Azor Ahai" and/or "the prince that was promised" then we get alot more candidates to chose from.

Could R+L=J really be smoke screen for the real "Azor Ahai" and/or "prince that was promised"? What about the potential pairing of Jon Snow+Danerys Targaryen is that too just smoke screen?

Perhaps Rennifer Longwaters is "the prince that was promised"? 

Supposedly, there was a marriage between Prince Jacaerys and an unnamed bastard half-sister of Cregan Stark, but it's never been confirmed.

The Pact of Ice and Fire was supposed to marry a Targ princess to a Stark following the DotD, but it never happened. I've always suspected that a marriage of ice and fire is not a good thing, since it could produce someone who could warg a dragon as easily as he/she wargs a dire wolf, and that probably the CotF or perhaps the Green Men got word to the Targs and Starks that it would be best not to marry.

With Jon Snow, of course, we supposedly have someone with fire/ice blood, and isn't it interesting that now, after thousands of years, the Others have reappeared?

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