First of his/her name

[Ser Uncle P]

8 hours ago, Vaith said:

Possibly as a signifier that they are so above themselves and vainglorious that they're comparing themselves to royals. It's quite amusing actually, as you get a Rhaegar among the pre-Rebellion births, and a Cersei from the post-Rebellion births. 

It was sheer arse kissing. And as Walder himself boasts, the old weasel

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"had three kings to guest in my life, and queens as well, " 

AGOT Catelyn IX 

At least 2 of these kings were Targaryens, so he was probably naming the brats after the Royal family in honour of the visitors. 

[Aurane]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:33 PM, Skoboe said:

In a world where history and the various royal lines go back 7,000 years or so, and with many names repeated throughout that history, it strikes me as odd that there would be so many unique names since the Seven Kingdoms went to pot with the Mad King.

I assume that this has something to do with claimants to the IT having names of Valyrian origin prior to Robert's Rebellion. I highly doubt that 'the First' would be acknowledging Storm kings from a now defunct kingdom. I believe that Robb was named after Robert so it'd make sense that he's have a somewhat unique last name in the North.

On top of that there's no way that we know the name of every king of the past 7000 years.

[John Suburbs]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:33 PM, Skoboe said:

Hey all, been away from this site for a couple of years so apologies if this has been noticed before.

I've been binge-watching and re-reading over the last month after being stuck at home with health issues, and apart from now being able to see a bunch of foreshadowing in every episode of every season, there are a number of patterns sticking out. One of them is how many times you hear the phrase "first of his/her name" when crowning a new king or queen.

Robert Baratheon - first of his name

Stannis Baratheon - first of his name

Renly Baratheon - first of his name

Joffery Baratheon - first of his name

Robb Stark - first of his name

Tommen Baratheon - first of his name

Queen Cersei - first of her name

Queen Daenerys - first of her name

Not sure about Euron Greyjoy?

In a world where history and the various royal lines go back 7,000 years or so, and with many names repeated throughout that history, it strikes me as odd that there would be so many unique names since the Seven Kingdoms went to pot with the Mad King.

Now, assuming that if/when Jon gets crowned the King in the North [in the books] he is first legitimised as Jon Stark, he WON'T be the first of his name. And if/when he gets to be King Aegon Targaryen, he WON'T be the first.

It's safe to say that everything written in ASOIAF is very deliberate, so there may be something in that pattern?

I think it goes by dynasty as well. So Robert Baratheon is the first of his name to sit the Iron Throne, same with Joffrey, Tommen, etc. The fact that men of the same name were kings of the stormlands or the rock is irrelevant, since those were different kingdoms, different dynasties.

If Jon Snow were to become Jon Stark and serve as the King of Winter, that would be an interesting dilemma. Would he be the first of his name under a new dynasty? Or would he be the X of his name of the previous dynasty that was interrupted for a few centuries. I would imagine it would be Jon's choice, but to lend his new reign legitimacy I would think he would want to be seen as the continuation of the historic dynasty rather than the founder of a brand new one. Same if he became King Aegon or King Aerys, just like Viserys would have likely called himself Viserys III rather than Viserys the I -- although he was rather vain, so maybe he would have seen himself as the founder of a new dynasty.

[Vaith]

7 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I think it goes by dynasty as well. So Robert Baratheon is the first of his name to sit the Iron Throne, same with Joffrey, Tommen, etc. The fact that men of the same name were kings of the stormlands or the rock is irrelevant, since those were different kingdoms, different dynasties.

If Jon Snow were to become Jon Stark and serve as the King of Winter, that would be an interesting dilemma. Would he be the first of his name under a new dynasty? Or would he be the X of his name of the previous dynasty that was interrupted for a few centuries. I would imagine it would be Jon's choice, but to lend his new reign legitimacy I would think he would want to be seen as the continuation of the historic dynasty rather than the founder of a brand new one. Same if he became King Aegon or King Aerys, just like Viserys would have likely called himself Viserys III rather than Viserys the I -- although he was rather vain, so maybe he would have seen himself as the founder of a new dynasty.

I'm not sure why dynasty would be the case, since it's quite often styled as e.g. Aerys II Targaryen rather than Aerys Targaryen II, implying that the numeric solely refers to the first name rather than the entire name. 

Balon and Euron also have quite high numerics (IX and III) despite the Greyjoys being kings infrequently during the Kingsmoot period before being dominated by the Hoares for a long time.

And GRRM gets his inspiration from the real world. In England, William I and II were from the House of Normandy, while William III was from the House of Orange and William IV from the House of Hanover -- same numeric. In Spain, Isabella I was from the House of Trastámara and Isabella II from the House of Bourbon, and in France, Louis I was a Carolingian and there were Louises in increasing numerics during the House of Capet, Valois, and Bourbon right up until Louis XVIII of the Bourbons. So I don't think it'd change in surnames. If Jon was King in the North he'd probably be the Second (or more) of His Name.

Viserys certainly wouldn't have styled himself as the First? I don't see this new dynasty thing. In the AGOT appendix,

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PRINCE VISERYS, styling himself Viserys, the Third of His Name, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, called the Beggar King.