Sandor/Sansa

[Wrex]

But keep in mind, she may be older (albeit not entirely LEGAL in our eyes) when she meets up with him again. And at that point, she may be considered fully adult to everyone in Westeros. And she'll be drop-dead beautiful, just not a rocket scientist. This will be a much anticipated scene for many readers!

Sansa is only 13 at the of AFFC, I doubt she will age much more during the series. Maybe a year, perhaps 2. Still to young on my eyes but whatever.

[Wrex]

Whoops double post.

[Sandor's_Mandy1]

I don't know if someone else has mentioned it, but I think that Sandor was following Sansa around circa ACoK. He just "popped up" all of the time... too much of a coincidence if you ask me. Take the first time she was coming back from the Godswood, for example. Or the time she went up on the roof. How did he just "happen to be there" on both occasions?? Hmm?? Haha. He Looooooves her. And I'm all about it.

I also am half of a mind that Sandor knew of her meetings with Dontos, if the case was that Sandor indeed was following her.

[TTB]

For those who don't see hints of Sansa/Sandor:

4. Metaphorical marriage - A typical marriage ceremony in Westeros seems to entail the groom giving the bride his cloak of protection. Sandor gave Sansa his white cloak twice.

6. Sandor's on Sansa's mind - Sansa thinks of Sandor in every chapter of AGoT, ACoK, and AFfC. She compares him to several different men based on their ferocity, bravery, voice, ugliness, hands, height, morality, sigil, renown, guardianship, and kissing ability.

7. Sansa's on Sandor's mind - Arya is never the one to bring up Sansa in her conversations with Sandor. He brings her up a total of eight times in ASoS--the same number of ASoS chapters in which he has a speaking part.

8. Sandor breaks his rules for Sansa.

I'm a bit dense when it comes to picking up on these subtle hints, but you've certainly pointed out a lot of evidence that's convinced me. The groom giving the bride his cloak of protection is something I'd not thought of. Great post.

[Prince of the North]

I don't know if someone else has mentioned it, but I think that Sandor was following Sansa around circa ACoK. He just "popped up" all of the time... too much of a coincidence if you ask me. Take the first time she was coming back from the Godswood, for example. Or the time she went up on the roof. How did he just "happen to be there" on both occasions?? Hmm?? Haha. He Looooooves her. And I'm all about it.

I also am half of a mind that Sandor knew of her meetings with Dontos, if the case was that Sandor indeed was following her.

HA! I like this and I think you're right! You see, I also took a particular interest in a certain young woman about 12 years ago and sort of just started turning up wherever she happened to be (the way she tells it ). Well, to make a long story short, I married that certain young woman and we have a couple of kids now, too So, Sandor and Sansa? Sure! Why not?!

[Lord Stormborn]

The most important question here is: who is there, when it goes down?

A pack of dogs on a lone wolf?

OR

A pack of wolves on a lone dog?

[AsphodelElysium]

yeah that "not ungently" pissed me off so much. i'm like, ok, we get it already! he likes her!

Its like pick another adverb for the love of...

[Sandor's_Mandy1]

HA! I like this and I think you're right! You see, I also took a particular interest in a certain young woman about 12 years ago and sort of just started turning up wherever she happened to be (the way she tells it ). Well, to make a long story short, I married that certain young woman and we have a couple of kids now, too So, Sandor and Sansa? Sure! Why not?!

Awwww! I'm glad to hear that things worked out for you and your "Sansa". : )

I want the Hound to find happiness SOO badly. I think he reminds me a lot of someone I once knew. Hopefully Sandor's story will have the happy ending this other person did not have.

[Prince of the North]

Awwww! I'm glad to hear that things worked out for you and your "Sansa". : )

I want the Hound to find happiness SOO badly. I think he reminds me a lot of someone I once knew. Hopefully Sandor's story will have the happy ending this other person did not have.

Thanks and I agree with you about wanting Sandor to turn his life around. I also think he's on his way. I really liked your observation that Sandor seemed to be following Sansa around and watching her. It had the ring of truth for me because I sort of did the same thing with my wife. I think it's true that people often just start "turning up" around others in whom they may have a romantic interest

[King Bronn]

I think this thread is due for a bump.

So, the consensus around here seems to be that Sandor and Sansa may end up having a relationship, but certainly won't get married. But I actually think it's likely that they will, so I wanted to bring that up for discussion.

My crackpot theory evidence:

1. There's the whole cloak symbolism, which is explicitly about marriage. If you want to really dig into it, you could see him giving her his kingsguard cloak as giving her his vows. (...or not.)

2. Sandor has expressed interest in entering the service of House Stark. When Arya asked him what he hoped to ransom her for, and he said he thought Robb would make him a lord. Perhaps he was thinking that a lord of the North has a higher chance of wedding one of the Stark daughters than some Lannister bannerman....

3. Speaking of Lannister bannermen. Everyone talks about how unrealistic it is for a highborn lady like Sansa to marry one. But it's not without precedence: One of the Stark kids already did that, remember? (Not that it went well.)

4. It's been theorized that Sansa lost her Stark-ness when she lost Lady. It's also been theorized that Sandor is a replacement for Lady. So Sansa's not a Stark anymore -- she's a Clegane. Maybe it will be literal one day?

I'm not saying it will be a successful marriage... in fact, I kind of fear another Tyrion/Tysha scenario. But nonetheless, I think it's a real possibility.

[Olenna]

So, the consensus around here seems to be that Sandor and Sansa may end up having a relationship, but certainly won't get married. But I actually think it's likely that they will, so I wanted to bring that up for discussion.

It's quite possible that Sandor will distinguish himself in the final showdown against the Others and be awarded a lordship and a nice castle. If this comes to pass, it's not out of the question that Sansa could marry him.

But, in keeping with the promised bittersweet end, it would be just like GRRM to have Sansa marry Harry Hardyng (or somebody else) and have an ongoing affair with her household guard, Sandor.

I have a hard time imagining Sandor living in tranquil domesticity, which is a life that Sansa clearly does want. Maybe they'll just have a hot one-night stand before Sandor dies heroically.

[Smaug]

I think this thread is due for a bump.

My crackpot theory evidence:

1. There's the whole cloak symbolism, which is explicitly about marriage. If you want to really dig into it, you could see him giving her his kingsguard cloak as giving her his vows. (...or not.)

2. Sandor has expressed interest in entering the service of House Stark. When Arya asked him what he hoped to ransom her for, and he said he thought Robb would make him a lord. Perhaps he was thinking that a lord of the North has a higher chance of wedding one of the Stark daughters than some Lannister bannerman....

3. Speaking of Lannister bannermen. Everyone talks about how unrealistic it is for a highborn lady like Sansa to marry one. But it's not without precedence: One of the Stark kids already did that, remember? (Not that it went well.)

4. It's been theorized that Sansa lost her Stark-ness when she lost Lady. It's also been theorized that Sandor is a replacement for Lady. So Sansa's not a Stark anymore -- she's a Clegane. Maybe it will be literal one day?

I'm not saying it will be a successful marriage... in fact, I kind of fear another Tyrion/Tysha scenario. But nonetheless, I think it's a real possibility.

This is my first post. Please, dont comment my english, I know he is very bad.

1. The cloak symbolism proves nothing (I think), he gave her his cloak to cover her once, on Tyrions command, and other when he took a song from her. I dont think here is anything deep what have some relationship with marriage.

2. I think he expressed interst in serving House Stark becouse there is nothing left to him with Lannisters. He cannot go back, and Stannis will kill him for his sins if he come to him, so Starks are only logical choice. And of course we dont need to speak about certanly young girl who traveled with him.

3.Do you think on Robb and Jeyne?

4. She lost her Starkness? Well I think that it is stupid. How can someone lose his personality with death of his pet? And if we talking of changing her name, then her name is Sansa Lannister. Dont forget one marrige.

[Sandor's_Mandy1]

I think this thread is due for a bump.

So, the consensus around here seems to be that Sandor and Sansa may end up having a relationship, but certainly won't get married. But I actually think it's likely that they will, so I wanted to bring that up for discussion.

My crackpot theory evidence:

1. There's the whole cloak symbolism, which is explicitly about marriage. If you want to really dig into it, you could see him giving her his kingsguard cloak as giving her his vows. (...or not.)

2. Sandor has expressed interest in entering the service of House Stark. When Arya asked him what he hoped to ransom her for, and he said he thought Robb would make him a lord. Perhaps he was thinking that a lord of the North has a higher chance of wedding one of the Stark daughters than some Lannister bannerman....

3. Speaking of Lannister bannermen. Everyone talks about how unrealistic it is for a highborn lady like Sansa to marry one. But it's not without precedence: One of the Stark kids already did that, remember? (Not that it went well.)

4. It's been theorized that Sansa lost her Stark-ness when she lost Lady. It's also been theorized that Sandor is a replacement for Lady. So Sansa's not a Stark anymore -- she's a Clegane. Maybe it will be literal one day?

I'm not saying it will be a successful marriage... in fact, I kind of fear another Tyrion/Tysha scenario. But nonetheless, I think it's a real possibility.

I agree, in part if not whole with this. I'm a complete hopeless romantic, but I still try to be logical and realistic when reading GRRM, and I think that there are a lot of signs that point to the possibility of this coming to be. Not to mention that Sansa doesn't necessarily have to stay Sansa. She does have an alter-ego, if you will, now that she could quite possibly decide to keep.

It's quite possible that Sandor will distinguish himself in the final showdown against the Others and be awarded a lordship and a nice castle. If this comes to pass, it's not out of the question that Sansa could marry him.

But, in keeping with the promised bittersweet end, it would be just like GRRM to have Sansa marry Harry Hardyng (or somebody else) and have an ongoing affair with her household guard, Sandor.

I have a hard time imagining Sandor living in tranquil domesticity, which is a life that Sansa clearly does want. Maybe they'll just have a hot one-night stand before Sandor dies heroically.

I actually don't have a hard time seeing Sandor living a quieter life now. I think he was purged of a lot of his hate and anger (if we're accepting the Gravedigger theory as fact) on the Quiet Isle. While I can't see him as being completely tame and sweet, I think maybe he could lead a normal life now. Although I must be honest and say that I REALLY like Sandor as the bloodthirsty badass that he is. If he led a "normal" Westerosi life, his talent would be going to waste. Haha!

EDIT: I do, however, have kind of an issue with Sansa having an affair. I know a lot of people don't see Sansa as honorable, but I don't think that it can be denied that she is dutiful. And duty requires a woman to be faithful to her husband. IMO, of course. I also am not too sure that Sandor, as in love with her as I think him to be, would be content to allow another man to touch her while he must content himself with sneaking around with her.

I still REALLY want to know what Tyrion did to make Sandor hate him so. In his "dying" speech, he's sobbing and says something along the lines that he should have f***** Sansa bloody and torn her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf. I don't think he would have said something QUITE that graphic if it were someone else she had been married off to. There is something there...

[Gerold Dayne]

I think that Sansa has seen the most from all of the Starks. Her father died in front of her eyes, she saw her father's head on a pole, she was repeatedly mallested and all that from the things she used to admire and wanted most of all, the nobles, the court and the knights. She has come to a point to like/love people that have nothing to do with all these things at the same time without being blinded by their external beauty and glamour...That is the reason why Sansa loves Sandor...

Her experience has created a whole new personality. A personality that hasn't come out yet but I am sure it will. Now with Petyr she starts learning that everything in life is actually grey. I am sure that a Queen of Stones is on the making...

I still REALLY want to know what Tyrion did to make Sandor hate him so. In his "dying" speech, he's sobbing and says something along the lines that he should have f***** Sansa bloody and torn her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf. I don't think he would have said something QUITE that graphic if it were someone else she had been married off to. There is something there...

It must be a frustrating thing to lose someone you love to a man not better than you but actually worse...

[King Bronn]

3.Do you think on Robb and Jeyne?

Yep, I meant Robb and Jeyne.

4. She lost her Starkness? Well I think that it is stupid. How can someone lose his personality with death of his pet? And if we talking of changing her name, then her name is Sansa Lannister. Dont forget one marrige.

I always thought this was silly, too. If anything, Sansa got more Stark traits after Lady died -- more loyalty to her family, more involved with the Old Gods, etc. But still, GRRM himself has suggested that she "lost her Stark-ness," so who are we to say? This is why I think it's symbolism for family names and not for personality.

I also am not too sure that Sandor, as in love with her as I think him to be, would be content to allow another man to touch her while he must content himself with sneaking around with her.

Can you imagine especially if her husband was abusive or rough in bed? Oh yeah, that would go over REAL well.

I too am dying to know why Sandor hates Tyrion so much. I've even debated emailing GRRM to ask... but it's not like he'd tell me. :|

She has come to a point to like/love people that have nothing to do with all these things at the same time without being blinded by their external beauty and glamour...That is the reason why Sansa loves Sandor...

Ah, that sums up perfectly why I became a Sansa/Sandor shipper in the first place. Such fantastic character development!

[semiramis]

I think that Sandor hates Tyrion because Tyrion sent him back out into the city during Book 2 when there was a fire raging out of control, and then again because Tyrion set fire to the river during the Battle of the Blackwater.

Because of Tyrion, Sandor had to face the thing that he hates most, and the second time, it broke him. He ran from that battle, just like the smallfolk will do when they face a pike charge. He became weak, cowardly, while his brother still got to retain his prestige as a Lannister bannerman.

And it was because of the wildfire. Because of Tyrion.

And then of course, I think that Sandor resents Tyrion for getting Sansa. As long as Sansa was betrothed to Joffrey, he could look at her and wish, but know that she was a pretty bird meant for a prince, not for a monster like him.

But Tyrion is deformed, too--and one imagines that he has never been too nice to his nephew's Dog. To Sandor, Tyrion is a misshapen, arrogant little monster--he couldn't even fight to save Sansa. All he has is that Lannister name, and because of it, he can send Sandor out to fight in the wildfire and be broken, while he gets gold chains and honors and the pretty bird for a wife.

Sandor knows he could have kept her safe. That dwarf probably doesn't even care about her--everyone knows that Tyrion knows every whore in King's Landing.

The poor pretty bird, so frightened. She's hemmed about with Lannisters now, caught in a golden cage. That dwarf has probably touched her, /hurt/ her...

(by the by, I wonder if Littlefinger's version of the Tysha story is widely known? That might make Sandor even mor prejudiced against Tyrion)

He should never have left her. He should have protected her. But he ran like a coward, and they gave her to that /dwarf/...

[Sandor's_Mandy1]

I think that Sandor hates Tyrion because Tyrion sent him back out into the city during Book 2 when there was a fire raging out of control, and then again because Tyrion set fire to the river during the Battle of the Blackwater.

Because of Tyrion, Sandor had to face the thing that he hates most, and the second time, it broke him. He ran from that battle, just like the smallfolk will do when they face a pike charge. He became weak, cowardly, while his brother still got to retain his prestige as a Lannister bannerman.

And it was because of the wildfire. Because of Tyrion.

And then of course, I think that Sandor resents Tyrion for getting Sansa. As long as Sansa was betrothed to Joffrey, he could look at her and wish, but know that she was a pretty bird meant for a prince, not for a monster like him.

But Tyrion is deformed, too--and one imagines that he has never been too nice to his nephew's Dog. To Sandor, Tyrion is a misshapen, arrogant little monster--he couldn't even fight to save Sansa. All he has is that Lannister name, and because of it, he can send Sandor out to fight in the wildfire and be broken, while he gets gold chains and honors and the pretty bird for a wife.

Sandor knows he could have kept her safe. That dwarf probably doesn't even care about her--everyone knows that Tyrion knows every whore in King's Landing.

The poor pretty bird, so frightened. She's hemmed about with Lannisters now, caught in a golden cage. That dwarf has probably touched her, /hurt/ her...

(by the by, I wonder if Littlefinger's version of the Tysha story is widely known? That might make Sandor even mor prejudiced against Tyrion)

He should never have left her. He should have protected her. But he ran like a coward, and they gave her to that /dwarf/...

I am of a mind that Sandor hated Tyrion from the get-go of ASoIaF. In the very first book of the series he makes fun of Tyrion, and seems to have quite the loathing of him from there on out. He's always telling him to guard his tongue, and when he is sent down to Flea Bottom in ACoK he tells Tyrion that he will go, but not by Tyrion's command. Then during the Blackwater battle he makes a statement that he should have killed Tyrion years ago.

I kind of think that it might possibly be the Tysha ordeal, maybe. Which would explain why he was SO irate with the fact that Sansa. But I just don't see why Sandor would care about Tysha, unless maybe he knew her or something farfetched like that? Or knew that she wasn't a whore and thought that Tyrion had known as well before letting the garrison take her in front of him. Sandor doesn't seem to be into torture, and I think that for Tysha, that's exactly what it was.

[Dothwacky]

I think its a combination when it comes to Sandor/Tyrion.

Sandor is Joffrey's Dog, not Tyrion's. All of Tyrion's family makes cracks about him, and Sandor, as Joffrey's sword, trusted by the King (good choice there Robert) and Queen... Well, he has a measure of immunity to the twisted little monkey demon. He doesn't have to be nice to him, or like him. Or obey his commands. It would be courteous to, but I don't think the Hound is overly bothered about that.

Add to that the wildfire, and all that ensued, as wonderfully illustrated by semiramis... Ta-da.

[Shadow Cat]

During their last scene together in Sansa's bedroom Sandor makes the comment:

"Bloody dwarf. Should have killed him. Years ago."

So something happened prior to the timeframe of the books where Sandor considered killing Tyrion. It could have been someone such as Cersei asked him to and he refused or it could have been something Tyrion did that Sandor wanted to kill him over. Whatever it was, it certainly predates Tyrion being given Sansa.

[Smaug]

Why Sandor hates Tyrion?

I think that is becouse they are both ugly, bad characters, but they are so diffrent.

Tyrion is smart, Sandor is not, Tyrion is rich and Sandor is poor, Tyrion is Lannister of Casterly Rock, and Sandor is almost nothing, a dog who belongs to the prince(well then he is belong to Joffrey).

And on the other hand, Sandor is brave, Tyrion is one step to be coward, Sandor is strong, good fighter, Tyrion is nothing of fighter, and weak. Sandor is big, and Tyrion is small.

Tyrion is weaker of Sandor and Sandor is a bully, so it is natural to him to make jokes, and hate weak cowardly dwarf like Tyrion.

I dont now, what are everybody see in Sandor and Sansa posible love affair. They are so diffrent. Well, there is something between them, but I dont think that is love. Maybe they have a one-night sex, but serious relationship? No.

Sansa is to clever for Sandor, but not for Tyrion. Yeah, I hope these two end is relationship. They are alredy in marriage, thought.