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Mat92

Ben(jen) Kenobi

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Benjen's role in the books is very similar to Ben/Obi-Wan Kenobi's.

I don't think there is a one-to-one comparison, but I think there's a parallel between the Jon/Benjen and Luke/Obi-Wan relationships:
 

  • Both Jon and Luke grew up as outsiders who wanted more from life
  • Benjen and Obi-Wan are mentors to them and introduce them into a life where they have bigger roles to play
  • Both Benjen and Obi-Wan disappear/die early on in Jon/Luke's journeys, causing them to always think about what their mentors would do 
  • Luke's father was not who he expected, and based on the R+L=J theory, this matches too (both revelations would be equally confusing/troubling)


I think this is interesting because as we know, Obi-Wan returns to Luke in some form to offer some guidance by the end, as well as to be important in confirming his heritage.

Likewise, I think that the strong parallels here are proof that Benjen will return at some point (which is commonly believed) to Jon and be integral to confirming his heritage.

I'm interested to see if there are any other parallels that occur between these characters, or their stories.

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6 hours ago, Mat92 said:

Benjen and Obi-Wan are mentors to them

I am not sure I can agree to this.  Benjen kind of tricked Jon into thinking he should join the NW. Benjen then went to Maester Luwin instead of his brother to influence getting Jon to the wall.  Once on the road Benjen was a different person towards Jon. Then at the wall Benjen only spoke to Jon a few times before leaving on the ranging.  Non of this reminds me of OB1. 

I agree Jon looked up to Benjen, but a mentor he was not.

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Only similarity I see between Asoiaf/GoT and Star Wars is that show got really bad in last 3 season like last 3 Star Wars movies (even though 9th even isn't released yet I can't see it being good after what first two gave it to work with).  Remember it is just my opinion that s5-s8 are bad not a spoiler. 

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6 minutes ago, the Other Wolf said:

I agree Jon looked up to Benjen, but a mentor he was not.

I agree, I meant mentor in the sense that he looks up to him - technically Benjen/Obi-Wan both did not have much time each to do any mentoring.

 

However it’s interesting you think that Benjen “tricked” Jon into joining the nights watch. Obi-Wan was shown to be... not altogether truthful to Luke about his father in A New Hope (“from a certain point of view”). Another parallel maybe? 

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1 minute ago, Tygett Lannister said:

Only similarity I see between Asoiaf/GoT and Star Wars is that show got really bad in last 3 season like last 3 Star Wars movies (even though 9th even isn't released yet I can't see it being good after what first two gave it to work with).  Remember it is just my opinion that s5-s8 are bad not a spoiler. 

This is a forum for the books not the show. Your opinion is certainly valid, but not relevant here - no offence. 

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24 minutes ago, Mat92 said:

This is a forum for the books not the show. Your opinion is certainly valid, but not relevant here - no offence. 

I see your point. My apologies. 

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13 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

I see your point. My apologies. 

All good! 

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8 hours ago, Mat92 said:

it’s interesting you think that Benjen “tricked” Jon

Jon was really drunk and Benjen was messing with his head. Calling him a man and then calling him a boy. This angered Jon into saying he is old enough for the watch. Then with Benjen going to Luwin to further his plan instead of talking to his brother about it.

GRRM has said we will find out why Benjen joined the NW. Maybe then we will get his true intentions of this trickery.

:cheers:

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8 hours ago, Centurion Piso said:

Benjen didn't teach Jon.  Mance Rayder taught Jon.  It's Darth Rayder who you should be thanking.  

I'm not necessarily interested in discussing how specific the parallels between the characters are, but more so what it could potentially tell us about the story going far.

I think it's a pretty strong indication in support of Benjen reappearing at some point.

But any other parallels that I haven't thought of might be cool if someone sees any.

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:06 AM, Mat92 said:

 

  • Both Jon and Luke grew up as outsiders who wanted more from life
  • Benjen and Obi-Wan are mentors to them and introduce them into a life where they have bigger roles to play
  • Both Benjen and Obi-Wan disappear/die early on in Jon/Luke's journeys, causing them to always think about what their mentors would do 
  • Luke's father was not who he expected, and based on the R+L=J theory, this matches too (both revelations would be equally confusing/troubling)

Sounds like a strech to me. Especially the first two points you make, those are generic characteristics you find in most stories and, of course, you'll have a mentor figure also at some point or another.

But if you are to look in more detail at the comparisons, I think you'll find a lot more differences than things in common. 
For example: 

  • A mentor has to teach things to the unexperienced main character, yet Benjen teaches very little to Jon. Ser Alliser Thorne is more of a mentor in that sense than Benjen. Actually, in the long run, the real mentor is Jeor Mormont.
  • It's true that both Obi Wan and Benjen die/disappear early on, yet Obi Wan is very important and a true participant to the first part of the story(one movie out of three) while Benjen has always been a side character rarely seen and most importantly, he doesn't do something important to drive/change the story(except dissapear).
  • Last difference between OW and Benjen is that OW really knows a lot of secrets about a lot of main characters and also important is the fact that he was an active character in important events of the past(wars mostly). In that case, Eddard is way more of a Obi Wan than Benjen could ever be. Eddard took part in past significant wars and knows a few secrets himself. 

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:15 AM, the Other Wolf said:

I am not sure I can agree to this.  Benjen kind of tricked Jon into thinking he should join the NW. Benjen then went to Maester Luwin instead of his brother to influence getting Jon to the wall.  Once on the road Benjen was a different person towards Jon. Then at the wall Benjen only spoke to Jon a few times before leaving on the ranging.  Non of this reminds me of OB1. 

It does feel like he did trick Jon into the NW. It also seems like he wanted him to grow up faster by keeping him at arm's length once they are at the Wall.

In ACoK, Qhorin Halfhand mentions that Benjen felt that the cold winds were rising as well. And so I have to wonder what he knew and if that's the reason he might have "tricked" Jon into joining the NW.

I have no doubt that Benjen will be returning at some point. I think his reasons for joining the NW go beyond him being so impressed by some black brother that he decided it was the life he wanted for himself. 

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