Rule by fear it is.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

Now this will not come to anything as the show writers will chose to ignore it....but seriously what was Dany thinking ? Jon has already sworn loyalty to her over and over again, told her he has no desire for the throne and will follow her even if they cant be together, so she has him and his men in her pocket to help get her ass on the throne.

But for whatever strange reason she felt the need to tell him that she now plans to rule with fear ? I honestly cant think of a worst person for her to reveal this to... if there was one thing that would make Jon turn his back on Dany it would be the idea of her becoming a horrible Queen and up till now he has been defending her saying she will be a good one.

She would have thought to keep this to herself at least until she is on the throne not the night before the battle to win it.... she could have lost a chunk of her army and the battle with that comment

 

Obviously none of the above matters now... as her actual actions will have cost her his loyalty... but as this was pre war, she wouldn't have known how Jon would react to this comment... he did stay with her however I feel that went against Jons character and had they stayed true to it he would have contested her on it and even turned his back on her.

[Flightless bird]

1 hour ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

But for whatever strange reason she felt the need to tell him that she now plans to rule with fear ? I honestly cant think of a worst person for her to reveal this to... if there was one thing that would make Jon turn his back on Dany it would be the idea of her becoming a horrible Queen and up till now he has been defending her saying she will be a good one.

He did state when he first met her, That she "hadnt burnt and attacked Kings Landing, so in the very least, you must be better than Cersei" 

Danny wanted to make sure a tyrant never sits the throne ago.. ironic isn't it... 

What I don't understand is why does Danny want power now? its not for the love of the people, its not for respect,.. Queen of the ashes

[NonoNono]

She did it because she believes that if she cannot rule with Jon, Jon will be pushed to take her out, so she much rule with fear to keep opposition in check, hence she had to go way overboard to make sure everyone would truly be afraid to take any action against her.

Problem is, there was no reason for people not to support her over Cersei, she even managed to take the city without killing a single civilian, the writers just wanted us to believe she wouldn't be accepted but never provided support for that. It would have made far more sense if everyone was in the Red Keep, and Dany chose to burn it down to finish off Cersei even if it meant killing civilians: an actual difficult choice that could lead her to be rejected if she fell for it. Instead, it turned out Cersei had nothing. Yet they played it out as if the people hated Dany and loved Cersei. It was truly awfully written.

Also, the idea that the people would want Jon to be king because someone says he is the son of Rhaegar is pathetic. No one would believe. Most people don't know who he is, and most who do just think he's a bastard, vow breaker, supported by Stannis' witch. But again, the writers didn't bother to support the idea Jon would be supported as king over Dany.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

56 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

She did it because she believes that if she cannot rule with Jon, Jon will be pushed to take her out, so she much rule with fear to keep opposition in check, hence she had to go way overboard to make sure everyone would truly be afraid to take any action against her.

Problem is, there was no reason for people not to support her over Cersei, she even managed to take the city without killing a single civilian, the writers just wanted us to believe she wouldn't be accepted but never provided support for that. It would have made far more sense if everyone was in the Red Keep, and Dany chose to burn it down to finish off Cersei even if it meant killing civilians: an actual difficult choice that could lead her to be rejected if she fell for it. Instead, it turned out Cersei had nothing. Yet they played it out as if the people hated Dany and loved Cersei. It was truly awfully written.

Also, the idea that the people would want Jon to be king because someone says he is the son of Rhaegar is pathetic. No one would believe. Most people don't know who he is, and most who do just think he's a bastard, vow breaker, supported by Stannis' witch. But again, the writers didn't bother to support the idea Jon would be supported as king over Dany.

Varys believed and made no sense. He sent ravens. At the very least it would unstable Dany’s rule for years even if Jon stays loyal. 

[NonoNono]

16 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Varys believed and made no sense. He sent ravens. At the very least it would unstable Dany’s rule for years even if Jon stays loyal. 

Joffrey faced credible accusations and it didn’t matter. There is no reason to think Jon being said to be Rhaegar’s son would matter. If people can’t accept Daenerys, another Targ isn’t what they need.

It doesn’t hold up.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

No matter what she thought, she had just heard it from the horses mouth literally 3 seconds before she blurted out " fear it is "... he told her you are my Queen, I have no desire to sit on the throne... etc

It just made zero sense to tell the most honourable man in Westeros that her new plan was to lead people using fear, save that revelation for when she actually has her arse on the throne... and is sitting in such a comfy position with all the houses behind her and armies galore that no one would dare go against her, not when things are fragile and she still needs the norths support for the takeover.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

4 hours ago, NonoNono said:

She did it because she believes that if she cannot rule with Jon, Jon will be pushed to take her out, so she much rule with fear to keep opposition in check, hence she had to go way overboard to make sure everyone would truly be afraid to take any action against her.

Problem is, there was no reason for people not to support her over Cersei, she even managed to take the city without killing a single civilian, the writers just wanted us to believe she wouldn't be accepted but never provided support for that. It would have made far more sense if everyone was in the Red Keep, and Dany chose to burn it down to finish off Cersei even if it meant killing civilians: an actual difficult choice that could lead her to be rejected if she fell for it. Instead, it turned out Cersei had nothing. Yet they played it out as if the people hated Dany and loved Cersei. It was truly awfully written.

Also, the idea that the people would want Jon to be king because someone says he is the son of Rhaegar is pathetic. No one would believe. Most people don't know who he is, and most who do just think he's a bastard, vow breaker, supported by Stannis' witch. But again, the writers didn't bother to support the idea Jon would be supported as king over Dany.

But what she has done is create friction between herself and him now that wasn't there, he has made it clear that she is his queen... he would most likely disappear north once she is on the throne... and the only people he will be surrounded with will be wildlings that have interest in who sits on the throne and wouldn't be pushing for him to go south to claim anything.

2 people that have been pretty smart throughout the whole show by keeping their true intentions masked have all of a sudden decided to blurt out things that would lead to their downfall against character.

[darmody]

9 hours ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

Now this will not come to anything as the show writers will chose to ignore it....but seriously what was Dany thinking ? Jon has already sworn loyalty to her over and over again, told her he has no desire for the throne and will follow her even if they cant be together, so she has him and his men in her pocket to help get her ass on the throne.

But for whatever strange reason she felt the need to tell him that she now plans to rule with fear ? I honestly cant think of a worst person for her to reveal this to... if there was one thing that would make Jon turn his back on Dany it would be the idea of her becoming a horrible Queen and up till now he has been defending her saying she will be a good one.

She would have thought to keep this to herself at least until she is on the throne not the night before the battle to win it.... she could have lost a chunk of her army and the battle with that comment

 

Obviously none of the above matters now... as her actual actions will have cost her his loyalty... but as this was pre war, she wouldn't have known how Jon would react to this comment... he did stay with her however I feel that went against Jons character and had they stayed true to it he would have contested her on it and even turned his back on her.

In one sense he's the worst person to say that to. Because he doesn't go in for murdering innocents shenanigans, until recently was king of the largest kingdom, and controls a good portion of her army. 

On the other hand, he's the perfect man to listen. Because he's Jon and Jon doesn't do anything anymore. "You are muh queen" and " I don't want it" are his mantras. Also, he's stupid and may not have picked up the subtle terrorism clue. 

[Winter prince]

6 hours ago, NonoNono said:

She did it because she believes that if she cannot rule with Jon, Jon will be pushed to take her out, so she much rule with fear to keep opposition in check, hence she had to go way overboard to make sure everyone would truly be afraid to take any action against her.

Problem is, there was no reason for people not to support her over Cersei, she even managed to take the city without killing a single civilian, the writers just wanted us to believe she wouldn't be accepted but never provided support for that. It would have made far more sense if everyone was in the Red Keep, and Dany chose to burn it down to finish off Cersei even if it meant killing civilians: an actual difficult choice that could lead her to be rejected if she fell for it. Instead, it turned out Cersei had nothing. Yet they played it out as if the people hated Dany and loved Cersei. It was truly awfully written.

Also, the idea that the people would want Jon to be king because someone says he is the son of Rhaegar is pathetic. No one would believe. Most people don't know who he is, and most who do just think he's a bastard, vow breaker, supported by Stannis' witch. But again, the writers didn't bother to support the idea Jon would be supported as king over Dany.

We are meant to believe that Dany has become paranoid over Jon being the rightful heir.  She lost her sense of reason because folks that Jon has been battling with for years flocked to him in the aftermath of the long night.  She has never experienced not being a hero to the people.  Yes, there was an uprising in Mereen, but that was by the people who lost power.  She was Mhysa not an after thought.  He was also elected King in the North, which had to be a concern for her.

[darmody]

5 hours ago, NonoNono said:

Joffrey faced credible accusations and it didn’t matter. 

Joffrey was very nearly defeated by Stannis, and Robb Stark (TKITN) made a go of it. If it hadn't been for Melisandre, the combined forces of the North, the Reach, and most of the Stormlands definitely would've unseated him. Lucky boy. 

Oh, and a crowd sexually assaulted his betrothed and almost ripped him apart. Then he actually was poisoned, but not for being illegitimate I admit. 

[Torienne]

Wait a minute: Jon was not "elected" to be King in the North. He was proclaimed king - not by the people but by the representatives of the (minor) nobility.

Westeros is no democracy and the more the show tries to manipulate me to judge the events and its characters by modern standards the more obstinate I get. The more they let Tyrion and Varys speak about "the innocent" people of KL - who Tyrion once spoke of with such disdain during his trial- , the more they try to convince me how empathic and how horrified a trained killer and massmurderer like Arya gets by watching people die the more I fell tempted to inform the writers that the UN-Declaration of Human Rights dates from 1948.

Read medieval literature or chronicles: Nobody cared! The only human beings that mattered were aristocracy. One of the rare writers who introduced common folk into his works was Shakespeare - and even he didn't suggest to let them elect their rulers. And Shakespeares works are far far above their times. Just to even acknowledge the poor existence f "the people" came later and was a thing that developed in the 18th century. In GRRM world only the wildlings have something like "electing" their leader. But the show killed nearly all wildlings or sent them back to where they came from.

And even a low-born man like Bronn who worked his way through a feudal society upwards by warrior-skills and unscrupulousness. Do you think that now he has come to power as Lord of Highgarden he would institute democracy?

So: Everybody in a medieval society ruled more or less "by fear".

[Winter prince]

1 hour ago, Torienne said:

Wait a minute: Jon was not "elected" to be King in the North. He was proclaimed king - not by the people but by the representatives of the (minor) nobility.

Westeros is no democracy and the more the show tries to manipulate me to judge the events and its characters by modern standards the more obstinate I get. The more they let Tyrion and Varys speak about "the innocent" people of KL - who Tyrion once spoke of with such disdain during his trial- , the more they try to convince me how empathic and how horrified a trained killer and massmurderer like Arya gets by watching people die the more I fell tempted to inform the writers that the UN-Declaration of Human Rights dates from 1948.

Read medieval literature or chronicles: Nobody cared! The only human beings that mattered were aristocracy. One of the rare writers who introduced common folk into his works was Shakespeare - and even he didn't suggest to let them elect their rulers. And Shakespeares works are far far above their times. Just to even acknowledge the poor existence f "the people" came later and was a thing that developed in the 18th century. In GRRM world only the wildlings have something like "electing" their leader. But the show killed nearly all wildlings or sent them back to where they came from.

And even a low-born man like Bronn who worked his way through a feudal society upwards by warrior-skills and unscrupulousness. Do you think that now he has come to power as Lord of Highgarden he would institute democracy?

So: Everybody in a medieval society ruled more or less "by fear".

Lord Commander of the Night's Watch was always chosen by election.  You're right Jon was proclaimed King, but even still his lords chose him to be king.

Yes, the show and books had ladies and lords balk at up-jumped sellswords or lower class citizens that were rewarded.  But we are no longer at that point.  The families of power have changed and now so can the politics.  It also would not be democracy it would be a democratic republic or just a republic.  Every common person would not get a vote but lords and ladies, wardens, the few powerful houses that remain would get to choose.

This is one of the true ways to eliminate tyranny.

[Torienne]

20 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

Lord Commander of the Night's Watch was always chosen by election.  You're right Jon was proclaimed King, but even still his lords chose him to be king.

Yes, the show and books had ladies and lords balk at up-jumped sellswords or lower class citizens that were rewarded.  But we are no longer at that point.  The families of power have changed and now so can the politics.  It also would not be democracy it would be a democratic republic or just a republic.  Every common person would not get a vote but lords and ladies, wardens, the few powerful houses that remain would get to choose.

This is one of the true ways to eliminate tyranny.

You are of course right concerning the NW. Thanks for reminding me.

And with your last sentence you are equally right: Great Britain did develop and prosper in an analogical way.