Did Tywin order the Mountain to rape Elia and smash her head?

[Bernie Mac]

Just now, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

? I think Rufus was just being silly, not rude & was being misunderstood. 

I'm not aware that I've whined about anything or that I've been condescending to someone, but if I have, I'll certainly apologize for it. 

I wasn't aware that you were walking on eggshells in your responses to me either but would encourage you not to because you certainly don't need to do that for my sake. As far as I remember it is typically you who gets upset when we conversate, not me. 

Sorry that I've offended you with my up vote though. 

Your memory might not be all there, but in the past you, to myself and others, have played the victim and insinuated others have been condescending to you.

I'm okay with the condescension, just not the double standards. But as you are saying that you no longer have a problem with others doing the same to you, we are fine.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 minute ago, Bernie Mac said:

Your memory might not be all there, but in the past you, to myself and others, have played the victim and insinuated others have been condescending to you.

I'm okay with the condescension, just not the double standards. But as you are saying that you no longer have a problem with others doing the same to you, we are fine.

I'm sure I've called someone out for being condescending & am aware that I have done so to you specifically. It doesn't offend me or make me "whine" though & I've certainly never played the victim. 

I do have an issue with condescension, I don't think I've said otherwise. What I'm saying is please, don't hold back on my account, you aren't going to offend me but I may tell you, you are being rude or condescending. If you have to walk on eggshells to not do that, by all means, don't do it on my account. 

 

[Bernie Mac]

1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I'm sure I've called someone out for being condescending & am aware that I have done so to you specifically. It doesn't offend me or make me "whine" though & I've certainly never played the victim. 

I do have an issue with condescension, I don't think I've said otherwise. What I'm saying is please, don't hold back on my account, you aren't going to offend me but I may tell you, you are being rude or condescending. If you have to walk on eggshells to not do that, by all means, don't do it on my account. 

 

Do you not see how you having an issue with people being condescending then upvoting comments like 'duh' is a double standard on your part. One rule for thee and another for me...

Or perhaps you don't, most of us, myself included, fail to see when we are being hypocritical. Either way, this is just a polite heads up to show that you to support the condescension in this forum.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

6 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Do you not see how you having an issue with people being condescending then upvoting comments like 'duh' is a double standard on your part. One rule for thee and another for me...

Or perhaps you don't, most of us, myself included, fail to see when we are being hypocritical. Either way, this is just a polite heads up to show that you to support the condescension in this forum.

Yeah, I don't think "duh" is on the same level of condescension that I have called out, but thanks for the heads up. 

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

16 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

 

I was pointing out that Tyion was lying, duh!

Are you being serious? You clearly insinuated that Tyrion believed that Tywin gave the order for Elia's rape and death. If that wasn't the point of what you quoted, you weren't even saying anything. Tywin outright told Tyrion that he ordered the deaths of the royal children. So, of course he believed Tywin gave the order for that. It was never in doubt, from anyone here. Tyrion was lying regardless of whether or not he believed Tywin ordered Elia's death, so, yes, he was lying. Well done for pointing that out. Do you actually have a point?

This ridiculous, condescending response is utterly baffling. Are you joking? Trolling? Simple?

[Rufus Snow]

13 hours ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

Are you being serious? You clearly insinuated that Tyrion believed that Tywin gave the order for Elia's rape and death. If that wasn't the point of what you quoted, you weren't even saying anything. Tywin outright told Tyrion that he ordered the deaths of the royal children. So, of course he believed Tywin gave the order for that. It was never in doubt, from anyone here. Tyrion was lying regardless of whether or not he believed Tywin ordered Elia's death, so, yes, he was lying. Well done for pointing that out. Do you actually have a point?

This ridiculous, condescending response is utterly baffling. Are you joking? Trolling? Simple?

Just exasperated that two consecutive replies were trying to make out I was saying the opposite of what I'd said and chiding me for it.

So, the long form version of what I meant: Tyrion believed Tywin's statement about the orders. He could not KNOW FOR A FACT that Tywin did so as he, Tyrion, was not present at the time those orders were given. Even from Tywin, it was still hearsay, so Tyrion had to judge whether it was true or not, clearly in admitting to himself that his reply to Oberyn was a lie, he is accepting Tywin's account, and has no reason to doubt it. And that for me is good enough - if Tyrion believes Tywin did the deed, I'm willing to accept he did the deed too. After all, Tyrion seems to be the smartest guy in the kingdom, and has studied the dark underbelly of Tywin like no-one else, so the fact he has made that judgment satisfies me.

Is that a bit clearer.

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

13 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Just exasperated that two consecutive replies were trying to make out I was saying the opposite of what I'd said and chiding me for it.

So, the long form version of what I meant: Tyrion believed Tywin's statement about the orders. He could not KNOW FOR A FACT that Tywin did so as he, Tyrion, was not present at the time those orders were given. Even from Tywin, it was still hearsay, so Tyrion had to judge whether it was true or not, clearly in admitting to himself that his reply to Oberyn was a lie, he is accepting Tywin's account, and has no reason to doubt it. And that for me is good enough - if Tyrion believes Tywin did the deed, I'm willing to accept he did the deed too. After all, Tyrion seems to be the smartest guy in the kingdom, and has studied the dark underbelly of Tywin like no-one else, so the fact he has made that judgment satisfies me.

Is that a bit clearer.

Right. There's still one thing I'm unsure of: are you saying that a) Tyrion believed that Tywin did order Elia to be raped and murdered, or that b) Tyrion believed Tywin simply didn't mention her.

It seemed like you were implying a. Saying "Tyrion believed Tywin gave the order" with no preamble indicated to me that it was a response to the OP's question "did Tywin order the Mountain to rape Elia and smash her head?". The quote you gave simply didn't show that, which was what my response was indicating.

If you were implying b, well, I don't think the quote really shows that, either. He'd still be lying if he believed Tywin gave the order about Elia, too. Now, Tyrion never thinks that Tywin lied to him about Elia, so I agree that Tyrion didn't believe it, but the quote doesn't show that. All that quote shows is that Tyrion was lying, which was never in question. So I'm not really sure about the point of the quote.

If your point was that Tyrion believes Tywin's version of events, and that we should therefore believe that too, well, that's fine, but you probably should have said that. Because that wasn't implied at all in your first post.