Would ICE be reforged? Plus Lamentation, Lady Forlorn and Widows Wail spoilers.

[Castellan]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:24 PM, TheLastWolf said:

With the ancestral Valyrian greatsword of the Starks ,Ice melted down and reforged into Widow's Wail (Tywin's gift to Joffrey) and Oathkeeper (Jaime's gift to Brienne) by Tobho Mott, will we ever see them back together as Ice if the Starks are resurgent or if they ally themselves with any of the dragon claimants (Dany or Aegon) ?

I really want it to happen as Valyrian swords are the identity of any noble and ancient House (provided that they have one in the first place) and would hate to see them lost, stolen or reforged (except in Houses I hate, like the Boltons or the Freys, who have none).

I think that Oathkeeper probably has an important role in its present form.

[Curled Finger]

3 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

As to the location of Widows Wail, I read a theory about it from ladygeynhyfvar. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ladygwynhyfvar.com/category/asoiaf/&ved=2ahUKEwj68t61ycTqAhXKIbcAHVq8BrAQFjAIegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1QDOsuznag7msUqcXwbp_8&cshid=1594449465855

Could it be that Petyr Baelish smuggled Both Lamentation and Widows Wail to the Vale in the tapestries? Are the hunting tapestries symbolic? 

If you feel that this is worth a new thread/topic, I'll be pleased to oblige. If it has already been discussed, please send me a link(/s) of it, @Curled Finger it has been nagging me for a while. 

 

Love us some Lady Gwen, all day every day.  Still I disagree with their fun thinking that Little Finger somehow procured a Valyrian Steel sword and had it hidden into the tapestries he asked for.  Yes, I will eat my hat if that is exactly what ends up happening.   I'm reasonably certain that Lamentation really was destroyed in the dragon pit.  Best as I can tell, it did whack a wing off a dragon.  I read the bit about Royce showing off the tapestries to be sort of gloating over a king's possessions.   Maybe pointing out some guy who looks vaguely like himself in the tapestries boring everyone with tales of his friendship with Robert.   Or something like that.  I can't see any reason Little Finger would have for even wanting the king's little sword.  I have a hard enough time getting Lady Forlorn out of the Vale when I plot logisitics.

Logistics is usually a fun topic.  I'm sure there are discussions about the tapestries and swords.   I heard it the first time in my own topic, no doubt about where the swords are.  I can't recall any topics specifically entitled "What is Little Finger doing with the tapestries", but I'm sure if there was a way to search you could find it.   I have turned to google to find old conversations.   I wish I could be of more help to you.   You are on fire with many topics.  Enjoy the conversations.   

[TheLastWolf]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

I'm reasonably certain that Lamentation really was destroyed in the dragon pit

But how could it be destroyed ? 

It's VS! 

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said:

But how could it be destroyed ? 

It's VS! 

Dragon fire.   There were a whole bunch of pissed off, terrified mouth breathers in the pit.  We only know that VS is impervious to common fire.   Dragon fire is a whole different thing.   I think it melted, to be honest, but there is no proof.   If you crack open TWOAIF you will see Lamentation listed among the dead, and that went a long way to swaying me to this thinking.   Used to be the Wiki said it was destroyed, but that has since been changed.  And I'm totally hung up on 12 swords for 12 heroes, so I don't really have room for Lamentation or Brightroar or a reforged Ice.  12 is the magic number.  

[TheLastWolf]

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Dragon fire.   There were a whole bunch of pissed off, terrified mouth breathers in the pit.  We only know that VS is impervious to common fire.   Dragon fire is a whole different thing.   I think it melted, to be honest, but there is no proof.   If you crack open TWOAIF you will see Lamentation listed among the dead, and that went a long way to swaying me to this thinking.   Used to be the Wiki said it was destroyed, but that has since been changed.  And I'm totally hung up on 12 swords for 12 heroes, so I don't really have room for Lamentation or Brightroar or a reforged Ice.  12 is the magic number.  

But all of those were baby dragons. Hatchlings I mean. Even Balerion's flames melted the stones of Harrenhal to a bit only. And where are stones compared to centuries old VS blades?

And 12 is a magical number in Greek myth maybe. But here it's 7.

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, TheLastWolf said:

But all of those were baby dragons. Hatchlings I mean. Even Balerion's flames melted the stones of Harrenhal to a bit only. And where are stones compared to centuries old VS blades?

And 12 is a magical number in Greek myth maybe. But here it's 7.

The dragons were old enough to fly and breath fire...probably heavy duty magical fire.  Harrenhal was made with magical weirwood, too.   We might do better to look at the devastation Rhaenys and Meraxes did on their tour of Dorne.  For my purposes here, I've got Old Nan telling Bran the Last Hero struck out with a dozen companions...and a dog.  So I look for a dozen swords and a dozen companions.   It doesn't have to be 12 to work, I just like the fullness of it and figuring out how this character got that sword, or rather will get.  I mentioned Lady Forlorn earlier.  She will fight in the war for dawn.  I'm not 100% sure who will wield her, but I have come up with 3 ways she could leave the Vale, so that's progress.  It keeps me out of arguments about characters and plot points.   I have this sweet little corner and I like it, you know? 

If you give me some time I will do a little research on stones versus steel and see what we can determine about strength.   I have a feeling the stones will end up harder on this one seeing that steel is made with fire.   It's got to have a melting point.   I will let you know.  

[Curled Finger]

Looks like stone (generic google search here) melts at 1200 celsius and carbon and stainless steel melt at 2500 to 2800 celsius.  Google further reports that dragon fire would have to be about 1300 celsius.  Multiply that by 5 dragons and I think you could melt a magic sword.  Honest.  Harrenhall should have melted into the river.  Foiled by the weirwood.  

[TheLastWolf]

33 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

You are on fire with many topics.  Enjoy the conversations. 

. But one of my latest posts... 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157331-blackfish-and-bloodraven-starks’-resurgence-new-dragon-eggs-and-more…/

... has got a lot of views, but no replies. Since you are an authority of sorts about VS and dragons, I'd be grateful if you offered your opinion. After all, I'm just a sweet summer child (to quote @Ygrain, the Ser Grandmother) so I depend much on you experts. 

13 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

If you give me some time I will do a little research on stones versus steel and see what we can determine about strength.   I have a feeling the stones will end up harder on this one seeing that steel is made with fire.   It's got to have a melting point.   I will let you know.  

Sure. Awaiting eagerly.

Oh got it. 

 

[TheLastWolf]

3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Looks like stone (generic google search here) melts at 1200 celsius and carbon and stainless steel melt at 2500 to 2800 celsius.  Google further reports that dragon fire would have to be about 1300 celsius.  Multiply that by 5 dragons and I think you could melt a magic sword.  Honest.  Harrenhall should have melted into the river.  Foiled by the weirwood.  

Another GRRM error. Or not. 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, TheLastWolf said:

. But one of my latest posts... 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/157331-blackfish-and-bloodraven-starks’-resurgence-new-dragon-eggs-and-more…/

... has got a lot of views, but no replies. Since you are an authority of sorts about VS and dragons, I'd be grateful if you offered your opinion. After all, I'm just a sweet summer child (to quote @Ygrain, the Ser Grandmother) so I depend much on you experts. 

Sure. Awaiting eagerly. 

 

Takes time for topics to catch on.  Not every conversation is for every reader.   I just posted a topic and will fall over if it gleans 3 replies.   My research is above--I should have alerted you, but that's how the typing goes when one reports!  

[Curled Finger]

Just now, TheLastWolf said:

Another GRRM error. Or not. 

GRRM proudly, nay defiantly, brags that he takes a thing and turns it up to 11, like that Wall, for example.   You can bet your castle his dragons burn much hotter, but I was trying to take the high road.   That actually a good catch, Man. 

[TheLastWolf]

1 minute ago, Curled Finger said:

That actually a good catch, Man. 

Thanks again. 

Gonna change the title to include our recent posts

[TheLastWolf]

21 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

but I have come up with 3 ways she could leave the Vale, so that's progress

What are those? 

[Curled Finger]

How about you start a new topic and you tell me how you see it all going down?  You might be surprised at some of the replies you will get. 

[TheLastWolf]

5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

How about you start a new topic and you tell me how you see it all going down?  You might be surprised at some of the replies you will get

Sure. And thanks for the DM again. That would help it.

[TheLastWolf]

I've now come to the conclusion (popular) that Ice won't be reforged. But what about a new sword for the Starks who will be resurgent .....

....(no biased speculations that all Starks gonna die and warg into wolves and commit incest from anti-blah blah guys. You can argue that I'm biased in this in the first place, but Stark resurgence is a certainty given that GRRM named ADOS earlier as A Time for Wolves and the plot too seems to lead to each characters revelation as more powerful, from Bran and Rickon to Arya and Sansa).....

......and who will wield it?

No way in hell Arya will give up Needle, even if you give her a million VS blades.

Not Sansa either. She's a politician in the making. Bow and arrows will maybe suit her.

Rickon will probably be the axe/hammer type, like Gendry. Info about Skaagosi very less. Cannibalism probably a lie to hide something going on there. Mining of dragonglass? Or some special ore?

Jon will either end up with Blackfyre or Longclaw or Dawn (maybe true Lightbringer in hidden passive form)

I think it's going to be Bran (as Brandor) wielding Dark Sister (he or maybe Meera) and will pass on to his descendants via Meera. If his dick still works. Lady Forlorn via Sansa (her suitor) is also a possibility.

[PrettyLittlePsycho]

After all is set and done,the Starks might have more VS swords than family members alive.

Jon already has Longclaw, Oathkeeper and WW might make their way home, Bran is probably sitting on Dark Sister without knowing it. Then the theories about Blackfyre, Dawn, .......

7 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

......and who will wield it?

That´s the point. Jon is set up, Bran and Sansa have no use for them (for different reasons), Rickon is too young. It only leaves Arya,time forNeedle 2.0.

 

7 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

No way in hell Arya will give up Needle, even if you give her a million VS blades.

Well, she is not stupid,she already contemplated once that Needle was more of a toy than a proper sword.

And though it´s a little off-topic, I once read a cool theory that Needle will break when she stabs Stoneheart. She´ll need an upgrade then.