Brainstorming a Robert's Rebellion Timeline

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I agree that there is more than one way a birth 31 weeks after conception might be plausible.

The thought that occurred to me is that King Aerys does not seem to be wild about this wedding, and they might not want to give him an opportunity to forbid it.   A small private ceremony, consummated, prior to the arrival at King's Landing, prior to the Big Ceremony at Baelor's Sept, might be a sort of safeguard.

Don’t really see the reason for such a fuss.  A child conceived out of wedlock is not a bastard.  A child born out of wedlock is.  It’s not that big a deal.  Other than a raised eyebrow or two, no one would have said anything.

[Mister Smikes]

"... later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet." 

Should this be taken as a sign that Aegon was conceived at King's Landing?  If so, it might complicate the timeline problem.

Of course, Rhaegar could not have made the connection at the time, because he could not have known of the conception as it occurred.  He would have made the connection later.  Maybe his idea was that the star appeared above King's Landing the night Aegon was conceived on Dragonstone, to announce to KIng's Landing that their promised prince was born.

[Mister Smikes]

13 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Don’t really see the reason for such a fuss.  A child conceived out of wedlock is not a bastard.  A child born out of wedlock is.  It’s not that big a deal.  Other than a raised eyebrow or two, no one would have said anything.

I agree, as a general matter of principle.  But people can make something out of nothing for political reasons.  And if (say) the father is no longer around to say "shut up, the boy is mine", one can imagine certain slanders gaining traction.  So the idea that a royal couple ought to take care to preserve every appearance of propriety is not insane.  

But, given the tightness of the timeline, maybe this is a minor point, and maybe conception before marriage is as good a solution as any other.

[Frey family reunion]

14 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

But, given the tightness of the timeline, maybe this is a minor point, and maybe conception before marriage is as good a solution as any other.

Most of the nobility (other than Connington) would have just been pleasantly surprised that Baelor the Blessed reborn was agreeable to having sex with his bride to be.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

It doesn’t say anything about the family presenting Rhaenys to the King and Queen, just Rhaegar.  Presumably, they would not have waited six months to present the King and Queen with their first grandchild.  Rhaegar would have brought the child to King’s Landing, while Elia remained bedridden in Dragonstone.

I would expect Rhaegar to do the presenting regardless of whether Elia was present.  Given high rates of infant mortality in medieval times, it is reasonable to wait until a child is out of danger before subjecting it to travel.    The interests of mother and child are sufficiently connected that there seems no compelling need to separate them.

Elia presumably came to King's Landing at some point, since she eventually proceeded to Harrenhal.  The "comet above King's Landing" story may even be taken as implying that Aegon was conceived at King's Landing.

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

It doesn’t say anything about the family presenting Rhaenys to the King and Queen, just Rhaegar.  Presumably, they would not have waited six months to present the King and Queen with their first grandchild.  Rhaegar would have brought the child to King’s Landing, while Elia remained bedridden in Dragonstone.

Though the thing is is that Aegon was conceived when his parents were at King's Landing. After the wedding they moved to live at Dragonstone, and besides them going to Harrenhal and them going to present Rhaenys to her grandparents, they didn't went out. They were staying at Dragonstone.

When Rhaegar presented Rhaenys, to his parents only, not to other nobles too, because Aerys was already very ill (paranoid), he then went to Storm's End where he participated in Lord Steffon's tourney (which was held by Robert to honor his deceased father), and during that tourney he defeated Oberyn Martell, and little Arianne met her niece. Aerys wouldn't have allowed Martells to come to his castle, so Arianne met Rhaenys elsewhere, and that tournament, held at Storm's End, is a perfect fit. If you have read my theory - What happened at the Kingswood / Part 10 of the Swan Song, I wrote there a timeline for events that occurred between Rhaegar's wedding and Aegon's conception at King's Landing, when Rhaegar saw a comet, based on which he thought that Aegon was the Prince that was Promised.

There was no other opportunity for Rhaegar to visit King's Landing, besides when he was presenting Rhaenys to his parents. And because for Aegon's conception it was necessary for both of his parents to be at the same location, and Rhaegar saw that comet while being at King's Landing, the comet that he saw on the night when him and Elia conceived Aegon. How else does they know that that is exactly the night when their son was conceived? -> That's because while Elia was bedridden for 6 months after Rhaenys' birth, she and Rhaegar didn't had sex. And then they went together to KL to present Rhaenys to Rhaegar's parents, and while they were staying there, they had sex for the first time since Rhaenys' birth. It was for only one night. And then Rhaegar with his daughter went to participate in that tournament at which he met Martells, and Rhaenys was introduced to Arianne. But Elia didn't went to Storm's End with Rhaegar, she either stayed at KL, or went back home to Dragonstone. And when Rhaegar and Elia reunited again, she was already pregnant, and knew it. That's how they knew when exactly Aegon was conceived. Because they didn't had sex after Rhaenys' birth, and then they had sex on that one night, and then they again were not "together" for some time.

At the time of Aegon's conception, Rhaegar and Elia were at King's Landing. In my estimates it happened on April 1st of 281, or close to it. And Aegon was born in first ten days of January of 282, or somewhere around that time. Six months back from the night of Aegon's conception lands Rhaenys' birth somewhere in the end of September or the beginning of October of 280, depends on how long was Elia's first pregnancy. If it was 40 weeks long, then Rhaenys was born approximately on 10th of October. Though if her pregnancy lasted only 38 weeks, then Rhaenys was born ~ on September 26th of 280.

So if Rhaegar and Elia married on January 1st of 280, then their first child was born in late September of 280, their second child was conceived 6 months later, approximately in late March-early April, and was born either in late December of 281 or in early January of 282.

[Mister Smikes]

29 minutes ago, Megorova said:

At the time of Aegon's conception, Rhaegar and Elia were at King's Landing. In my estimates it happened on April 1st of 281, or close to it. And Aegon was born in first ten days of January of 282, or somewhere around that time. Six months back from the night of Aegon's conception lands Rhaenys' birth somewhere in the end of September or the beginning of October of 280, depends on how long was Elia's first pregnancy. If it was 40 weeks long, then Rhaenys was born approximately on 10th of October. Though if her pregnancy lasted only 38 weeks, then Rhaenys was born ~ on September 26th of 280.

So if Rhaegar and Elia married on January 1st of 280, then their first child was born in late September of 280, their second child was conceived 6 months later, approximately in late March-early April, and was born either in late December of 281 or in early January of 282.

So Rhaegar never saw his son?

Or alternatively, the heavily pregnant Elia rode from Harrenhal to King's Landing, where she gave birth, almost died, got quickly bunded onto a boat with their infant son and sent to Dragonstone, while Rhaegar took off with his 6 companions to chase Lyanna?

To each his own, I guess, but I'd rather give consideration to such possibilities as (1) babies can be conceived before marriage; (2) mothers can conceive even when her husband's friend considers her to be bedridden in some sense; and (3) babies can be born less than 38 weeks after conception. 

[Mister Smikes]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

How else does they know that that is exactly the night when their son was conceived? -> That's because while Elia was bedridden for 6 months after Rhaenys' birth, she and Rhaegar didn't had sex. And then they went together to KL to present Rhaenys to Rhaegar's parents, and while they were staying there, they had sex for the first time since Rhaenys' birth. It was for only one night.

Or maybe they had sex only one time during the (mostly) bedridden period, and Rhaegar remembers that one time.  Maybe it was when she thought she was feeling better and before she had a relapse.  And then they went to KL afterwards, where Rhaegar learned that people had seen a comet.  And he, being preoccupied with such things, looks at the date and says "Eureka!"  And maybe the comet wasn't seen at Dragonstone because it was too cloudy.

Or maybe Rhaegar was in KL, and saw a comet, and said "Quick my love, to the bedroom", and Elia said "But, my dear, I'm still not feeling my best".  And Rhaegar said, "No, you don't understand.  The red star bleeds, and if we don't have sex now, we will all get eaten by ice zombies!"  And Elia said, "Well okay my dear, but (cough) why are all these smoking braziers in our bedroom, and why are you throwing all this salt on the bed?"

Or, maybe there's just some circular backwards logic going on.  Maybe the only way Rhaegar "knows" which night was the night Aegon was conceived is because he has determined when the comet appeared above KL.

As for the 282 tournament at Storms End, I don't want to unduly complicate the timeline by events that cannot be confirmed to have occurred. 

[Frey family reunion]

5 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

I would expect Rhaegar to do the presenting regardless of whether Elia was present.  Given high rates of infant mortality in medieval times, it is reasonable to wait until a child is out of danger before subjecting it to travel.    The interests of mother and child are sufficiently connected that there seems no compelling need to separate them.

Elia presumably came to King's Landing at some point, since she eventually proceeded to Harrenhal.  The "comet above King's Landing" story may even be taken as implying that Aegon was conceived at King's Landing.

Was there any health concerns with Rhaenys?  I assumed that childbirth was just tough on Elia, with her delicate health.  And if Elia was bedridden, it’s almost certain that a wet nurse was used to nurse the baby, it’s unlikely that there would have been any health concerns about separating the mother and child for a short length of time, but who knows.

[Mister Smikes]

13 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Was there any health concerns with Rhaenys?  

Other than being a newborn infant?  I don't know.  Certainly, it is not implausible.  Health problems for mother often imply health problems for child.  

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I assumed that childbirth was just tough on Elia, with her delicate health.  

Why assume?  If Elia was too "delicate" to bring Rhaenys to full term, then Rhaenys could have been born early.  In which case Rhaenys was plausibly "delicate" as well for a while.

But even if that were not the case:  How much of an excuse does one need to decide not to separate a 3 month old baby from its mother in order to take it on an ocean voyage through storm-wracked seas in a medieval tub?    Is he worried that Varys' spies will whisper to King Aerys that the newborn was healthy as a horse and there is no danger at all?

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And if Elia was bedridden, it’s almost certain that a wet nurse was used to nurse the baby,

I assume she got all the help she needed.  It does not follow that she did not do her best to bond with her baby herself.  Nor does it follow that she would have been happy about being separated from her daughter.  "Don't worry dear!  We'll be back 3 weeks from Tuesday.  If the winds favor us.  And if the storms don't sink us!  And I'll be taking some random wetnurse, so we won't be needing you at all."

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it’s unlikely that there would have been any health concerns about separating the mother and child for a short length of time, but who knows.

Mom's don't like it when you take their babies.  "Don't worry, she's in good hands coz the wetnurse is well paid, and the maester says there's no health concerns, and the goose's entrails forecasts no storms, and we'll only be gone 3 weeks if the winds are favorable" does not cut it.

What's she supposed to do?  Lie back and try not to worry?  Because worrying might affect her health?

[Megorova]

18 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

So Rhaegar never saw his son?

No. He did saw the baby. Who said that Rhaegar left Dragonstone on January 1st? It was said in TWOIAF that he left with the coming of the new year, but it doesn't mean that he departed on the New Year's Eve, it could mean that he left Dragonstone soon after the beginning of 282 AC, somewhere in the middle or first 1/3 of January. So he did saw his son, after Aegon was born, and only after that he and his companions went on their mission.

13 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Or, maybe there's just some circular backwards logic going on.  Maybe the only way Rhaegar "knows" which night was the night Aegon was conceived is because he has determined when the comet appeared above KL.

The simplest solution is that when Rhaegar and Elia went to KL to present Rhaenys to her grandparents, on one of the nights that they have spent there, they had sex, and then after the sex Rhaegar saw a comet. And he and Elia noted its presence. And on the next day Rhaegar went to Storm's End. And when he came back from there, Elia said that she's pregnant. So that's how they knew that their child was conceived on the night of that comet. And when ~9months later Aegon was born, on Dragonstone (because after Rhaegar returned from Storm's End, him and Elia went back to Dragonstone, or Elia went there on her own, while Rhaegar was still at SE), Rhaegar re-read the scrolls with the prophecy. And based on what he found there, he became convinced that Aegon is the Prince that was Promised. And thus that's exactly what he said to Elia. And Dany saw this exact scene from the past, while she was in the House of the Undying, under the influence of the shade-of-the-evening.

Also, based on what Rhaegar have read in that prophecy, he thought that the Dragon has three heads, so there should be one more. Him and Elia talked and agreed that Rhaegar has to find another woman to have his third child with her. Because after Aegon's birth the maesters said that Elia can't have children anymore. So that's why Rhaegar and his companions went away from Dragonstone - to find a suitable candidate, that will bear Rhaegar's third child. That woman was supposed to be a dragonseed - bloodrelated to the Targaryens. Thus Rhaegar was searching for that woman amongst the people that were bloodrelated to his family.

So that's why he went to the Riverlands, because there were three "Whent"-girls - Wynafrei Whent - a daughter of Shella and Walter Whent, the original Queen of Love and Beauty at the Harrenhal's tournament of 281; and Catelyn and Lysa Tully, whose mother was Minisa Whent. And in my opinion House Whent actually was founded by the Bastard of Harrenhal, who officially was a bastard of Lucas Lothston, same as Jon Snow was officially the bastard of Ned Stark, but actually the Bastard was a son of Aegon the Unworthy and Aegon's own daughter - Jeyne Lothston (a daughter of Falena Stokeworth - one of Aegon's mistresses). So the Bastard of Harrenhal was a hidden dragonseed, same as Jon Snow, who is actually Rhaegar Targaryen's son, not Ned's. Lucas Lothston did for Aegon's son, same thing as Ned did for Rhaegar's son - he said that this child is his, and hid him in his own family as the Bastard of Harrenhal/the Bastard of Winterfell. The Bastard of Harrenhal was the founder of House Whent, and he was a grandfather of Shella, Walter, Oswell, Sarya and Minisa Whent. Oswell Whent, who was a Kingsguard, also was Rhaegar's friend, so when Rhaegar revealed to him that he needs to find a woman with the blood of the Targaryens, who will become the mother of his third child, Oswell shared with him the secret about his House's founding. That the guy who created House Whent - Oswell's grandfather, was a bastard of Aegon IV Targaryen, and not a bastard of Lucas Lothston, like everyone were made to believe (same as years later everyone were made to believe that Jon Snow is Ned Stark's bastard).

Thus Rhaegar and his companions, including Oswell Whent, went to Harrenhal to negotiate with Wynafrei's parents. But by the time they arrived there, she already got married with Danwell Frey. Danwell was one of those three knights that were defeated by the Knight of the Laughting Tree (Lyanna Stark). But before he was defeated, he fought to crown Wynafrei as his Queen of Love and Beauty, so even though later he lost, Wynafrei still was treating him favourably, and thus after the tournament her parents and Walder Frey (Danwell's father) arranged a marriage between their children. So Wynafrei was already taken. And then Rhaegar went to Riverrun to visit Oswell's other relatives - Catelyn and Lysa Tully - daughters of Oswell's first cousin - Minisa Whent. Catelyn at that time was already engaged with Brandon, so she also got crossed out from Rhaegar's list. And I don't know when exactly in which castle Rhaegar went, but it's likely that by the time when he arrived to Riverrun, Lysa has already hooked up with Petyr. So when Oswell talked with the girls and with their family's maester, he rejected Lysa too.

And when Rhaegar run out of options, he (probably) remembered that his great-grandmother Betha Blackwood also was from Riverlands, and he knew that Betha (this is my theory, not a confirmed fact yet) was a daughter of Mya Rivers - Bloodraven's sister and Aegon the Unworthy's bastard. So Rhaegar went to the Raven Tree Hall - the castle of Blackwoods, and there in their family records he found information that Betha had a sister - Melantha Blackwood, and that Melantha married with Willam Stark (they were Rickard Stark's paternal grandparents). So Betha Blackwood was Rhaegar's great-grandmother, and her sister - Melantha, was Lyanna Stark's great-grandmother. That's why Rhaegar eventully had chosen Lyanna as the mother of his third child. And he found out about Lyanna either while he went to Winterfell, same as previously he went to the Raven Tree Hall, to read thru their family's records. Or maybe he wrote a letter to maester Aemon, because Aemon was a brother-in-law to Betha and Melantha. And because Aemon was in the Night's Watch, he had an established relationship with the Starks, who were benefactors of the Night's Watch. So he knew who was who on the family tree of the Starks - who amongst them were Aegon the Unworthy's descendants.

So Rhaegar and Lyanna actually met before her supposed kidnapping, and they made a deal. Lyanna agreed to go with Rhaegar and to bear his child. Because she didn't wanted to marry with Robert. So instead she became Rhaegar's second wife. Rhaegar had two legitimate wives, same as Aegon the Conqueror.

Have you ever thought why Rhaegar "kidnapped" specifically Lyanna, and not some other girl? GRRM doesn't write plotlines in his books out of the blue. The characters in them do what they do, because they have reasons to act this way and not that way. They have motives.

Furthermore, in GRRM's books the events and the characters don't exist in a vacuum. Instead everything is connected. And everything has a cause and consequences, logic and reason. And everything is subsequent.

Considering the state of King Aerys' health in the late 281 AC, when was held the Harrenhal's tournament, it doesn't make sense for him to travel from KL to Harrenhal via land. Also, considering that to get out of the Dragonstone, Elia and Rhaegar needed a ship, because Dragonstone is an island, and considering that there is a direct sea/river-route from the Blackwater Bay to Harrenhal, it makes sense that the mentally ill Aerys and heavily-pregnant Elia both traveled to Harrenhal on a ship, not by land.

Also - the events are reasonable and subsequent. So if Elia was bedridden for 6 months after Rhaenys' birth, and Aegon's birth nearly killed her, then it would have been not possible for Elia to travel anywhere for at least 6 months after Aegon's birth. Which doesn't fit into your timeline. Though your timeline doesn't fit with logic and common sense.

If Elia and Rhaegar married in January of 280, then Rhaenys was born no earlier than in September of 280. And because it makes sense for Rhaegar to note the comet on the night of Aegon's conception, only if him and Elia both were at that time at KL, and that's when and where they conceived Aegon. So Aegon was conceived no earlier than 6 months after Rhaenys' birth, and thus he could have been born no earlier than in November of 281. And because it is known that after the end of Harrenhal's tournament the False Spring had lasted for less than two more months, and that it ended ubruptly - there was no gradual transition between spring into summer then autumn then winter - instead the spring ended when the snows started falling. Which had occurred on the first day of 282 AC. Which means that there is absolutely no way that Elia gave birth to Aegon before the tournament. Because that information about for how long after the tournament the spring lasted, and when the winter started, places the tournament into late October - early November (it lasted for 10 days). So because Aegon couldn't have been born earlier than in November (late November) of 281, this outcrosses the possibility of him being born before the tournament. So this part of your timeline is definitely wrong. 

Also it is known that Robert was wounded at Ashford, not at Gulltown and not at Summerhal. Because there was information about Robert after both of those battles and him being wounded wasn't mentioned. Furthermore, after those three-in-one-day battles at Summerhall, Robert went hunting with the two of those Lords. That's what Stannis said about that time - between Summerhall and Ashford. Then Robert wasn't wounded. And at the time of the Battle of the Bells, Robert was wounded. Thus it's logical conclusion that he got wounded between the Battle at Summerhall and the Battle at the Stoney Sept/the Battle of the Bells. And the only time when Robert could have gotten wounded was at the Ashford's battle. Which places the Battle at Ashford between the one at Summerhall and the one at the Stoney Sept. Also it is known that the wedding of Ned and Cat, Jon and Lysa happened already after the Battle of the Bells. And it is known that Ned left Catelyn at Riverrun two weeks after their wedding, which places Robb's conception into the time-slot of those two weeks. Between Lyanna's kidnapping and Ned's wedding passed months, so it's logical that Jon was conceived and born earlier than Robb. Etc.

So good luck to you with building your timeline. Though, in my opinion, you should fix there those things that doesn't fit with what is indeed known about the timing of those events - Aegon was born after the tournament of Harrenhal, and the Battle at Ashford happened before the Battle of the Bells, not after, how it is written in your timeline. Those things are basics, canon, they are KNOWN, not speculated by the fans. We can speculate about the things that aren't precisely known - for example when and where exactly was conceived and born Jon Snow. Though those other KNOWN things, what's the point of disregadring them, and making your own story, in case if what you're trying to do, is to figure out the timeline for the story that GRRM wrote? You won't be able to build a coherent timeline, if you will continue to disregard the known facts about the events that predated Robert's Rebellion, and those that had occurred in the span of it.

12 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

"Don't worry, she's in good hands and the maester says there's no health concerns, and the goose's entrails forecasts no storms, and we'll only be gone 3 weeks if the winds are favorable"

[Mister Smikes]

25 minutes ago, Megorova said:

No. He did saw the baby. Who said that Rhaegar left Dragonstone on January 1st? It was said in TWOIAF that he left with the coming of the new year, but it doesn't mean that he departed on the New Year's Eve, it could mean that he left Dragonstone soon after the beginning of 282 AC, somewhere in the middle or first 1/3 of January. So he did saw his son, after Aegon was born, and only after that he and his companions went on their mission.

So, your position is that Rhaegar and Elia were at Harrenhal at the end of the Tourney some time in November, 281.

Then, they galloped to King's Landing with the heavily pregnant Elia.

Then they got on a ship and sailed to Dragonstone.

Then Elia gave birth to Aegon and almost died.

Then Rhaegar said "Ta-ta my love, I've got to go places."

Then Rhaegar got on a ship and sailed to King's Landing.

Then Rhaegar departed KIng's Landing with his 6 companions.

-----------------------------x

Aerys' wildfire shows were to drive back the Winter, and they lasted a month.  Maybe there was plausibly some delay of a few days, but this was occasioned by the Snowstorm that began on New Years Eve.  Rhaegar never saw these wildfires, because he took to the road before they happened.   So it's not as though he left Dragonstone near the start of the new year, and arrived at King's Landing on time to catch the wildfires some time in mid January.  He did not see the wildfires, because he was gone from King's Landing (and not merely from Dragonstone), before they could occur at all.

Seems to me the timeline is less complicated if Rhaegar does not return to Dragonstone at all.  He says goodbye to Aegon and Elia, puts them on a ship Dragonstone, and then goes his own way.

[Mourning Star]

@Mister Smikes

I consider the Timeline of Robert's Rebellion to be one this series's original and core mysteries.

I'm preparing more interesting comment, but I find myself having trouble confirming one basic fact...

Why do we believe Aegon, son of Rhaegar, was born on Dragonstone?

[Frey family reunion]

16 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Mom's don't like it when you take their babies.  "Don't worry, she's in good hands coz the wetnurse is well paid, and the maester says there's no health concerns, and the goose's entrails forecasts no storms, and we'll only be gone 3 weeks if the winds are favorable" does not cut it.

 

Um, what?  At some point Rhaegar “braved” the perilous journey from Dragonstone to King’s Landing with infant in tow.  Whether it was with Elia or without, who knows and who cares?  Undoubtably it was with the woman who actually spent the most time with the child, and the one who was actually caring for the child and nursing the child, and that woman was most probably not Elia.  Even if it wasn’t for her poor health, it seems like a good bit of the nobility, prefer to use wet nurses to actually care for the kids.

In Elia’s case, she has her health concerns.  So even after she wasn’t bedridden, it’s very possible her maesters would have urged against her traveling.  Who knows, who cares.  I’m just pointing out that the Worldbook does not say that the proud parents showed off their daughter to the King and Queen, it does not say the “family” presented the child to the royal grandparents, it just says Rhaegar.  

And a possible reason, I would suggest a probable reason, is that Elia’s health kept her in Dragonstone.  

[Odej]

2 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

@Mister Smikes

I consider the Timeline of Robert's Rebellion to be one this series's original and core mysteries.

I'm preparing more interesting comment, but I find myself having trouble confirming one basic fact...

Why do we believe Aegon, son of Rhaegar, was born on Dragonstone?

Because was there his parents lived.

Rhaegar and Elia moved to Dragonstone after their wedding because Rhaegar's relationship with his father, who lived in King's Landing, wasn't good. Rhaenys, Aegon's older sister, was born on Dragonstone.

The first time Aegon is metioned in TWOIAF he is on Dragonstone, after the Torney at Harrenhal. Reason why many - including myself - believe he was born after the Torney.

So if his parents lived on Dragonstone, don't spent much of their time in King's Landing and the books don't mention other places they visited while the possible time his mother was about to giving birth to him, except the ten days they spent on Torney at Harrenhal, where else could he have been born?

[Frey family reunion]

3 minutes ago, Odej said:

The first time Aegon is metioned in TWOIAF he is on Dragonstone, after the Torney at Harrenhal.

Well technically the first time Aegon's mentioned, his brains have been splattered on the floor of the Red Keep.  But I think I see where you're coming from.  Are we 100% sure that Dany's vision in the House of the Undying took place after Harrenhal?  I mean that's kind of my assumption, but I don't necessarily know that for a fact.

[Mourning Star]

5 minutes ago, Odej said:

Because was there his parents lived.

Rhaegar and Elia moved to Dragonstone after their wedding because Rhaegar's relationship with his father, who lived in King's Landing, wasn't good. Rhaenys, Aegon's older sister, was born on Dragonstone.

The first time Aegon is metioned in TWOIAF he is on Dragonstone, after the Torney at Harrenhal. Reason why many - including myself - believe he was born after the Torney.

So if his parents lived on Dragonstone, don't spent much of their time in King's Landing and the books don't mention other places they visited while the possible time his mother was about to giving birth to him, except the ten days they spent on Torney at Harrenhal, where else could he have been born?

King's Landing?

Harrenhall? 

Anywhere in between?

I've assumed Aegon was born on Dragonstone too, but I'm asking if there is actual textual support for this or if it is just an assumption?

[Odej]

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

King's Landing?

Harrenhall? 

Anywhere in between?

I've assumed Aegon was born on Dragonstone too, but I'm asking if there is actual textual support for this or if it is just an assumption?

No, there isn't any textual support.

I just assumed as well.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Um, what?  At some point Rhaegar “braved” the perilous journey from Dragonstone to King’s Landing with infant in tow.  

Mother and infant daughter can travel together when it is safe for both to do so.  And they can bring along as many wet nurses and nurse maids as they like.  I don't know if it's ideal to do with any infant, but 9 month babies tend to be hardier than 3 month babies, etc. etc.

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Whether it was with Elia or without, who knows and who cares?  

Elia presumably cares.  Her husband abandons her while she is sick, and steals her baby on top of that, and justifies it by telling her that she has been replaced as mother and is not needed any more.  Sounds inhuman to me.

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Undoubtably it was with the woman who actually spent the most time with the child, and the one who was actually caring for the child and nursing the child, and that woman was most probably not Elia.  

If you ever find yourself in a similar situation, don't try these lines on your own sick wife.  She will make a quick recovery for the sole purpose of stabbing you to death.  

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Even if it wasn’t for her poor health, it seems like a good bit of the nobility, prefer to use wet nurses to actually care for the kids.

In Elia’s case, she has her health concerns.  So even after she wasn’t bedridden, it’s very possible her maesters would have urged against her traveling.  

She made it to King's Landing at some point, because she went even further to Harrenhal.  Whenever she came, the child could have been presented then.  

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I’m just pointing out that the Worldbook does not say that the proud parents showed off their daughter to the King and Queen, it does not say the “family” presented the child to the royal grandparents, it just says Rhaegar.  

Fair enough.  All I'm saying is that the failure to specifically mention Elia does not imply the inhuman scenario you are envisioning.

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

Why do we believe Aegon, son of Rhaegar, was born on Dragonstone?

I've been assuming that Aegon was probably born at King's Landing.  That would fit my timeline, anyway.