Sandy Clegg Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 May be of interest to some so I’m going to leave this link here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin It caught my eye because they use a seven-pointed star. Wiki puts their origin at around 1990. Quote Otherkin may identify as mythical creatures,[5] with others identifying as creatures from the natural world or from popular culture. Examples include: angels, demons, dragons, elves, fairies, sprites, wolves, foxes, horses, aliens,[6][7][8] and fictional characters.[9] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Interesting find! This might have played a subconscious role in Mr. Martin's writing, but I doubt it was intentional, if only because links between the Faith of the Seven and the Others are lacking and tenuous at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said: May be of interest to some so I’m going to leave this link here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otherkin This is right up my street If there are Dragonkin, why not Otherkin? That's basically what Craster giving his sons to the Others and his wives' belief that the sons are brothers to the Others implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Yeah I'm at the stage now where I have so many notes that when I stumble across something random I just post it without thinking before I forget it! But I think the star has its origin in Faery or Elf symbolism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 On 2/22/2023 at 10:26 PM, Sandy Clegg said: Yeah I'm at the stage now where I have so many notes that when I stumble across something random I just post it without thinking before I forget it! Have you tried Evernote to organise your notes? I find that quite useful. There are literary and symbolic connections between the Others and the FotS, but I think the Faith and Andals represent a complicated missing link between the ancient ancestors of the Andals (proto-Andals) who were distinct from the First Men, and the Others. Ancient Proto-Andal families in Westeros would include the Hightowers, Daynes, Royces and Boltons, in my view. Perhaps "moleskin" is also related to this idea of "kin." Jon Snow and Waymar Royce are the only ones who wear moleskin gloves (the sheath of Jon's original sword was also made of moleskin). Since moles are burrowing creatures that live a subterranean lifestyle, "mole's kin" could be hinting at ancestry going back to the mazemakers and builders of underground tunnels and labyrinths for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, Evolett said: link between the ancient ancestors of the Andals (proto-Andals) who were distinct from the First Men, and the Others. Believe it or not Andal’s are connected to Rhoynar. Whether these connections are actually intended or just result of bad world building I can’t tell, but they are there. 16 minutes ago, Evolett said: Perhaps "moleskin" is also related to this idea of "kin." Jon Snow and Waymar Royce are the only ones who wear moleskin gloves I wonder if it’s something like “being in someone’s shoes”? Perhaps wearing someone’s gloves would be acting on their behalf, doing their work etc. Like a hand or “Hand” in the case of a king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolett Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 33 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: I wonder if it’s something like “being in someone’s shoes”? Perhaps wearing someone’s gloves would be acting on their behalf, doing their work etc. Like a hand or “Hand” in the case of a king. Could well be. There's a lot we can interpret into "moleskin." "Sonlike" is an almost anagram which might also be relevant. A mole is also a term for a sleeper or under cover agent. Could be many things, rolled into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Evolett said: Perhaps "moleskin" is also related to this idea of "kin." Jon Snow and Waymar Royce are the only ones who wear moleskin gloves (the sheath of Jon's original sword was also made of moleskin). My contribution on the wordplay of 'moleskin' is that we can read the word as mole's kin, or family, which gives us: BOAR (a male mole) SOW (a female mole) PUP (a young mole) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: I wonder if it’s something like “being in someone’s shoes”? Perhaps wearing someone’s gloves would be acting on their behalf, doing their work etc. Like a hand or “Hand” in the case of a king. We could even go more literal. Feet (into boots) have skinchanging imagery throughout the books, so why not hands (into gloves)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 13 hours ago, Evolett said: Since moles are burrowing creatures that live a subterranean lifestyle, "mole's kin" could be hinting at ancestry going back to the mazemakers and builders of underground tunnels and labyrinths for instance. Jon's bad dreams lead him underground to the crypts where he experiences a great deal of fear. On the other hand, in the cave north of the Wall where he spends time with Ygritte and learns of the story of Gorne and Gendel, he has a great time, and he and Ygritte do not want to leave. Currently, he is either dead or gravely injured, either way, he will symbolically be going underground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Aren’t Otherkin like furries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: Aren’t Otherkin like furries They’re one of the ‘pluses’ in LBGTQ+ I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadden Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 3:51 AM, Evolett said: Perhaps "moleskin" is also related to this idea of "kin." Jon Snow and Waymar Royce are the only ones who wear moleskin gloves (the sheath of Jon's original sword was also made of moleskin). Since moles are burrowing creatures that live a subterranean lifestyle, "mole's kin" could be hinting at ancestry going back to the mazemakers and builders of underground tunnels and labyrinths for instance. I like this thought:) Also, Waymar’s moleskin gloves is soaked with red. However, in that scene things only seem red as fire. The blood is actually black to our eyes because of the Purkinje effect. So the gloves are soaked with black fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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