Rugby: France and Beyond

[ljkeane]

I'm a bit late to the other two games because I was busy while they were on and after the England game and a fairly irritating game I played in I wasn't in a great mood about rugby so I didn't catch up with them straight away.

The France Italy game was fun, shame Italy didn't pull off the win. To be fair to France they were well on top in the first half, they just weren't clinical about putting away their chances. The red card really killed them though. In terms of what's going wrong, it's fairly obvious, but if Dupont plays they probably score a few more tries in the first half and win comfortably. Still, losing just one player, even probably the best player in world rugby, shouldn't be hurting them this much.

Ireland just very polished I have to say. They've obviously got a lot of good players but the real stand out is how clearly they all understand what and how they should be playing. They look by an absolute mile the best coached side in the Six Nations. This clip I saw on twitter of their last try is a really good example. They don't do anything particularly flash, they just calmly manipulate the defence through multiple phases to pick off a tired front row.

Back to England I'm just really down on Borthwick as the coach.

The defence has had some issues in every game but, ok, they've got a new defence coach and they've changed to more of a high risk, high reward system. If you're flying off the line misreads are going to lead to big holes. If they're planning to stick with it for this World Cup cycle you can accept some teething problems for the first few games.

In attack though it's been 17 games now and I don't think there's been a really good game yet. I can't really see what it even is they're trying to do. Regardless of what you're trying to do winning quick clean ball and getting into your attacking shape quickly between phases is pretty essential, going back to Ireland that is what they're excellent at, but England are terrible. They've got a flyhalf in Ford who's really good at running a multiphase attack but England basically never do it because everything falls apart after a phase or two. It's really starting to get on my nerves.

[Iskaral Pust]

Same for me: I just finished watching Ireland vs Wales in stages through this week, and haven’t seen the others yet.

Credit to Wales that they defended tenaciously and their young team gave them a lot of energy and speed as they scrambled to cover, especially when Ireland shifted out wide.  That said, I thought Ireland were comfortably the better team and maintained control of the game even through two yellow cards.  Their coordination to wear down the forwards for that final try was a great example.

Ireland’s disrupted back line was less influential than usual, although Frawley and Nash were individually solid and did pretty well.  The lineout lost its recent consistency, although throws to the back seemed to be the weak point and were corrected.  There were a few handling errors again (after none against France), and one cost a try.  But the overall play was very solid and the first half domination of possession and territory provided a cushion on the scoreboard and ensured Wales would tire toward the end of the match.  Then Ireland defended well through the first yellow card and even maintained control through the second.

Beirne was perhaps unlucky to suffer the double punishment of a penalty try and a yellow card for changing his bind in an otherwise good piece of defensive play in a maul.  But then as he rejoined the field he immediately found himself in a similar maul and delivered an excellent turnover.  He’s in great form at the moment.

Crowley was good again with ball in hand and seems more physical than Sexton at the line, although we perhaps miss Sexton’s unrelenting high standards for how the team executes in general.

McCarthy and Baird show incredible pace for their size, and are already making a big impact as inexperienced new faces.  They pose a terrifying threat of line breaks for any opponent.

I thought the ref was quite good and managed the game well.  The yellow cards against Ireland were fair calls, even though they wouldn’t always be given (the James Ryan tackle wasn’t quite ten yards but I’ve seen plenty of similarly close tackles go unpunished).  But I thought there was some inconsistency that the same strictness wasn’t applied to Wales as Refell made a clear cynical foul in a ruck in desperation to disrupt an imminent Irish try, and again when Wales conceded a series of penalty advantages before Ireland scored a try.  I think if the ref was being consistent in his strictness then there should have been two yellow cards apiece.

Ireland conceded a few penalties at rucks for hands on ground (I think Aki twice for marginal infringements, and then JGP once trying to counter-ruck — why?) that were really unnecessary considering how unthreatening was the Wales attack.  I think the smarter play would be to avoid the risk of penalties and wait for the Wales error instead.  This wasn’t the situation to compete so zealously in the ruck and give Wales easy yardage gains that they were struggling to make on their own.

Edited March 1 by Iskaral Pust

[ljkeane]

So the Under 20s game pretty much went to form. England had the advantage in the tight (although their first choice hooker being out restricted them there a bit) but their backs were terrible. Ireland were getting by in the forwards but their backs were clinical.

Overall maybe a draw was a fair reflection of the balance of the game but I have to say I think the ref’s fucked England at the end there. Marginal penalty to start with, a very long advantage and Ireland almost score in the corner but advantage apparently still wasn’t over when they knocked it on after the final hooter.

ETA: I haven't bothered posting any the teams for the senior games this week because honestly it feels a bit irrelevant. Ireland are such a well drilled unit that so long as they don't do anything nuts with selection they should be fine. England are a mess but it doesn't seem like selection is the problem, it's getting the players picked to play in any sort of cohesive manner. Wales are in transition so some sort of chopping and changing isn't necessarily a big deal.

France making 8 changes is interesting I suppose. Maybe a bit of panic setting in?

 

Edited March 8 by ljkeane

[Iskaral Pust]

Ireland have Keenan back at FB, and otherwise look unchanged.  Ringrose returned to training during the week but doesn’t make the 23.  Henshaw has earned the starting berth for now, and why disrupt a winning side for a player who will be rusty after several weeks out?  The bench is heavy on forwards, wary of England’s power, so no room for Ringrose even on the bench.  Ringrose is a world class #13 but has been very unlucky in the past two 6Ns with injuries.

Ryan also doesn’t make the squad, which could be injury or just poor form.  Henderson is the bench second row instead.

 

[ljkeane]

Excellent game in Rome. Both sides played really well. Scotland will be disappointed with the result, especially after having had a decent lead, but they didn't do a huge amount wrong and that was a great effort to try and pull out a win at the end. For Italy a good performance but perhaps more importantly good to see all the elements of their team starting to come together.

[Iskaral Pust]

Forza Italia!

Aside from the Ireland game, Italy have been been very competitive this 6N.

[williamjm]

Congratulations to Italy, this does feel like the best Italian team we've seen in many years.

[ljkeane]

Fair play, after my complaints about Borthwick last time out, this has been a massive improvement from England. They’ve definitely been the better side but unfortunately they’ve still left about 10 points out there and that’s the difference between being in front and trailing at halftime.

[Iskaral Pust]

And that’s exactly why England at Twickenham was a concern.  All this talk of Ireland waltzing the 6N just ignored the competitiveness of one-off test rugby and the motivation of England to restore some pride at home. 

[ljkeane]

Well that was the best performance of the Borthwick era by an absolute mile. Probably the best performance since 2019. There’s quite a lot to build on too, very encouraging.

[Which Tyler]

Bloody Hell

[BigFatCoward]

Italy probably fancy their chances against Wales now. 

Edited March 10 by BigFatCoward

[ljkeane]

So going into a bit more detail for yesterday's game one of the big issues I've had with Borthwick's teams, both Leicester and England, is that they're extremely prescriptive about always kicking in their own territory. People will point out that successful teams actually kick a lot and, yes, everyone is going to kick the majority of the time from their own half but I think the point is if there's never any threat of a counter you make it very easy for the opposition.

Picking Furbank at fullback did suggest there might be a bit more willingness to take a few risks but England's first 3 scores came from them being willing to counterattack off slightly loose kicks. The first try especially Ireland didn't really look like they were prepared for England running a kick back at them. Beyond that just in general there was a real step up in the pace England were playing at in attack which was good to see.

In defence the new system did break down again for one of the Irish tries but in general it was also obviously discomforting an Irish attack which had been running smoothly up to this point. It was important that when Ireland were being pushed back inside by the rush England's forwards were winning the collisions. George Martin was particularly good on that front. I thin there's enough there to encourage England to stick with it.

From an Ireland perspective I think losing the collisions in both attack and defence was the big issue. With their attacking system you don't have to get miles over the gainline with every attack but if you get caught behind the gainline it causes problems (it does for everyone to be fair but Ireland in particular I'd say). Crowley didn't have a bad game by any means but maybe if Sexton was there he'd have backed himself to test that England rush on the outside by throwing a few riskier wide passes.

In defence I don't think they were prepared for how well England clicked in attack (I wasn't either to be fair). I wouldn't be surprised if they expectation was if they held up for a few phases they could wait for the England error but I think they ended up being a little bit passive.

[Which Tyler]

England v Ireland minute by minute, for anyone interested.

http://www.rugbyrebels.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6818

[Iskaral Pust]

I only got to watch the Ireland vs England match as far as ~45 minutes (Lowe’s try) prior to traveling for our vacation.  I know the result, obviously, but will have to wait another week before I can watch the rest.  I’ll probably miss the Ireland vs Scotland game live too (we’re just landing in Dublin from London around kick-off time).

That’s the best I’ve seen from England in a long time.  They finally dropped the stodgy conservative gameplan and actually played some rugby.  The blitz defense and swarming attack stifled Ireland almost completely, like NZ in the WC, even though Ireland have a solid lead to the point I’ve watched so far.  Considering the physical advantage England and France have (just from sampling a much larger population), I’m always surprised that England haven’t gone toe-to-toe on style.  Ireland have used tactics and gameplan for a while to cover a squad with less elite physicality.

Considering the dominance in possession and territory for England so far, I’m surprised the result was only a one-point win through a last minute drop-goal. The imbalance in play has been more than that.

Lots to digest in the Irish performance, and some that I haven’t watched yet.  The disrupted back three was a weak point defensively, and the 6-2 split was undone by Nash’s early HIA.  Perhaps Ringrose should have been included after all to add some wide defense.  And if Ryan can be dropped then O’Mahony’s place must be under threat, captain or not — he doesn’t contribute nearly as much as JVDF or Doris.

Mostly Ireland need to learn from that loss.  Teams will try the blitz defense to smother their attacking patterns.  They have to learn how adapt to that type of opponent.

[Iskaral Pust]

Ireland retain the same XV for Scotland, but change the bench to a 5-3 with Ringrose.  It’s good to maintain some continuity and loyalty to the players finishing out the 6N but probably some room for experimenting in the months following.  Peter O’Mahony’s role at #6 looks open for a younger player to come through.

[ljkeane]

3 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Ireland retain the same XV for Scotland, but change the bench to a 5-3 with Ringrose.  It’s good to maintain some continuity and loyalty to the players finishing out the 6N but probably some room for experimenting in the months following.  Peter O’Mahony’s role at #6 looks open for a younger player to come through.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them moving Tadhg Beirne to 6 and bringing in another second row. Beirne's not exactly young but you'd expect him to make the next World Cup and going with dynamic hybrid backrows/second rows at 6 seems to be be the in thing these days.

George North has announced his retirement after the end of the Six Nations. Wales really are having to rebuild almost their entire side.

[williamjm]

7 hours ago, ljkeane said:

George North has announced his retirement after the end of the Six Nations. Wales really are having to rebuild almost their entire side.

North must have quite a high percentage of the total caps in the current Welsh side.

[BigFatCoward]

What a great campaign for Italy. 

Edited March 16 by BigFatCoward

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

What a great campaign for Italy. 

They really dominated Wales today. It's a young team as well so they've got a lot of potential for the future.