Alex13 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 It's said in the books that at a stroke of a pen/quill, a newly named Lord of Harrenhal would become one of the wealthiest and powerful lords in Westeros. Is there a source saying how much land he has? Or how much land would he need to have to be considered among the most wealthiest and powerful lords of Westeros? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 I think there are vanishingly few, if any, indications as to how much actual land area any of the castles in Westeros control. A map might give some idea, given the relative distances between Harrenhal and other major castles. Compared to other castles in the Riverlands, Harrenhal does seem to have some space around it, at least to the east and south, and we might infer from this that these lands are possessions of the lord of Harrenhal. But even that is speculative. SaffronLady 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Harrenhal confuses me. Being Lord of Harrenhal is supposed to make you one of the strongest nobles but at the same time no one has managed to hold on to it very long and they can't afford to maintain the castle properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Harrenhal confuses me. Being Lord of Harrenhal is supposed to make you one of the strongest nobles but at the same time no one has managed to hold on to it very long and they can't afford to maintain the castle properly... It was probably thought and planned to be the seat of a King of a large swarth of land, not a feudal lord who owes allegiance to a monarch. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sace Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Harrenhal confuses me. Being Lord of Harrenhal is supposed to make you one of the strongest nobles but at the same time no one has managed to hold on to it very long and they can't afford to maintain the castle properly... I think George didn't do justice to Harrenhal. We know that the lands near Harrenhal are green and fertile, there is a massive lake just outside the wall, a decent sized town ready, the Trident is not far, the fief extends to the borders of the crownlands to the hills where House Wode has its seat. The castle itself is a gargantuan building, too much to be managed in its totality even by the king of the rivers, let alone a vassal. But that doesn't change the fact that the castle is actually fairly manageable if only some parts are occupied, like it happens in Winterfell, where many parts of the buildings are empty and not used. A lord could use just one tower, have the walls manned and the stables/kitchens manned for a normal proprtion, they don't have to fill them uselessly. And considering the Lord of Harrenhal should be pretty rich since the fief is one of the best in Westeros as highlighted before, this should be doable. What George did was make the Lords of Harrenhal either incredibly dumb or put them in the most improbable or unlucky situations (there are many less rich and manageable lands that aren't appearently cursed with stupid decisions): House Qoherys: a question of disloyalty from a servant of Lord Gargon sells him to an improbable Harren the Red. Gargon's grandsire had two sons and had married again a Tully after his first wife died. Conveniently for the "Curse of Harrenhal", in 10 years of marriage he didn't have other kids, nor did his two sons had other kids and at least 1 predeceased his father. Not impossible, but a serie of very convenient events. House Harroway: Lucas Harroway and his whole family, multiple children and grandkids and a cousin, and even all the Harroway in LH town get conveniently wiped out by Maegor (not even Aerys had fully extinguished House Hollard) House Towers: the first Lord Towers dies immediatly, his grandsons all die bar one, Walton's other sons die childless as well apearently, Maegor dies a kid, but in marriage age, he was sick. Considering most of them died due to war or illness, it's the most normal. House Targaryen: Queen Rhaena is de facto the Lady of Harrenhall for more than a decade, but both her daughters conveniently bar themseleves from a possible inheritance that their uncle, the king, could bestow upon them or their male heirs. House Strong: it counts many members both from Simon and his brother's side and none of them manages to flee Harrenhal during the times where the castle is not in captivity. House Lothston: they received Harrenhal randomly and die out because the Head of the House (and appearently the only member) becomes mad. House Whent: the House seems to florish, with many members and a big tournament organised (although sponsored by others). They lose Harrenhal during the war, which is at least sensible as an outcome. House Slynt: never took possession of it House Baelish: while Petyr has been Lord for awhile, it's just on paper, the castle is free to claim for many (Vargo Hoat, Gregor) Edited July 16, 2023 by Sace Alex13 and Craving Peaches 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merling King Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) On 7/16/2023 at 9:13 AM, Craving Peaches said: Harrenhal confuses me. Being Lord of Harrenhal is supposed to make you one of the strongest nobles but at the same time no one has managed to hold on to it very long and they can't afford to maintain the castle properly... I agree it does seem like a walking contradiction. Although House Strong and Whent seemed to flourish and be pretty powerfully until they each backed the wrong side of a civil war. On 7/16/2023 at 12:27 PM, Sace said: House Baelish: while Petyr has been Lord for awhile, it's just on paper, the castle is free to claim for many (Vargo Hoat, Gregor) If Peter Baelish had say a decade of relative peace under a Tywin administration he might have been able to grow the local resources, wealth and manpower to match the paper strength of the title. I always wondered if House Durandon had bent the knee to Aegon and Argillac had a male heir would Aegon have given Harrenhal to Orys Baratheon? Edited July 23, 2023 by The Merling King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 We actually have a vague idea on how much land they possess, at least on map. After Hayford Jaime’s route take him to Hoggs, Hayford vassals and they are near the border between Riverlands. The next day they cross a stream which forms the border and see the Wode hills, they are bannermen to Harrenhal. We also know that lands that belonged to Harrenhal were partitioned, I think after Harroways died out and even some very close settlements such as Harroway town to the north was given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 7/16/2023 at 12:01 PM, Alex13 said: It's said in the books that at a stroke of a pen/quill, a newly named Lord of Harrenhal would become one of the wealthiest and powerful lords in Westeros. Is there a source saying how much land he has? Or how much land would he need to have to be considered among the most wealthiest and powerful lords of Westeros? Yeah lf mentions its ruinous to heat and upkeep (huge crumbling parts would need constant expensive repairs) but for a lil shit like littefinger it doesnt matter as hes probably not gonna spend a single gold dragon on its repairs nor pay for heat..if any servants living there want heat theyl have to collect wood themselves with lord scrooge mc duck in charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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