Targ vigor or Dragonrider vigor?

[The Duck and the Field]

Someone may have thought of this before, but I just had an idea about something that gets debated a lot on this site. It is mentioned that in addition to their affinity for dragonriding, Targaryens do not get normal infectious diseases. This idea seems to have been directly contradicted at several points in F&B, notably in the death of Daenerys Targaryen (the Elder). She developed the Shivers, a normal infectious disease in Westeros likely caused by a virus or a bacterial infection. So it seems that the idea of Targaryens being  particularly disease resistant was just propaganda for the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, right?

Well, one thing struck me about this episode. It's the last thing that Jaehaerys suggested to save Daenerys.

Quote

Near dawn, Jaehaerys bolted to his feet shouting that a dragon was needed, that his daughter must have a dragon, and ravens took wing to Dragonstone, instructing the dragonkeepers there to bring a hatchling to the Red Keep at once.

Perhaps the protection which the Targaryens purportedly had from infectious disease didn't come directly from their bloodline, but was a side-effect of their bond with their dragons. Is it possible that "bonding" with their dragons induces vigor and hardiness in them? Later on in F&B, we hear that Laena Velaryon died trying to get closer to her dragon, supposedly in order to ride one last time, but was it actually in an attempt to strengthen herself and save her own life? What do you think?

[Alester Florent]

It is a tempting idea, although I'm not sure that dragonriding Targs die of illness at a lower rate than non-dragon Targs.

If we assume that 60 is the cut-off for a "natural lifespan" and that deaths after that point can be attributed to old age rather than common illness, I think there are seven dragonriders who died of conventional illness: Aenys I, Rhaena, Baelon, Alyssa, Laena, Viserys I and Aegon III. Baela and Rhaena are possibles, as we don't know when they died.

I'm not counting Aerea because whatever those things were that killed her it certainly wasn't a "common" illness.

We could conceivably caveat things by saying that Alyssa and Laena were victims of bodily trauma rather than illness per se, and note that Viserys and Aegon were long predeceased by their dragons (as was Baela, whenever she died). There is of course a suggestion - though I don't subscribe to the theory myself - that Aenys was murdered. None of it accounts for Baelon though.

 

[Springwatch]

13 hours ago, The Duck and the Field said:

Well, one thing struck me about this episode. It's the last thing that Jaehaerys suggested to save Daenerys.

Quote

Near dawn, Jaehaerys bolted to his feet shouting that a dragon was needed, that his daughter must have a dragon, and ravens took wing to Dragonstone, instructing the dragonkeepers there to bring a hatchling to the Red Keep at once.

Good one, and a very strong parallel to Bran's coma, when Rob noticed that when the wolves were close and howling, Bran grew stronger.

It's not the whole story though, because as far as Dany can remember, she and Viserys were always healthy as children.

It might be that Targs are mostly vulnerable to illnesses linked to cold, e.g. the 'Shivers', but I haven't read enough of the histories to be sure.

[Evolett]

18 hours ago, The Duck and the Field said:

Well, one thing struck me about this episode. It's the last thing that Jaehaerys suggested to save Daenerys.

Quote

Near dawn, Jaehaerys bolted to his feet shouting that a dragon was needed, that his daughter must have a dragon, and ravens took wing to Dragonstone, instructing the dragonkeepers there to bring a hatchling to the Red Keep at once.

Perhaps the protection which the Targaryens purportedly had from infectious disease didn't come directly from their bloodline, but was a side-effect of their bond with their dragons.

 

Judging by Daenerys' dragon dream after her initial weeks with the Khalasaar, it seems likely that dragons can confer vitality on their human counterparts. Dany is sick and sore, even thinking of killing herself. Then she has a dream featuring a dragon:

Quote

Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night … Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce. 

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much.

 

This may only be a dream but dragon cures her off her aches and pains. Not only that, it strengthens her resolve and increases her confidence markedly. It is after this that she stands up to Viserys the first time. Also, in a parallel to the wolves "singing" to Bran, the dream dragon sings to Dany. 

From the bits of information given, close proximity to the dragon appears to be necessary (Dany had the eggs in her tent). 

[Loose Bolt]

It is possible that average Targ has higher body temperature than most people. So they would only be harmed by germs that could somehow either bypass or ignore that natural defense. Or most infections that would be harmful for anyone with lower body temperature would be burned alive by heat generated by bodies of Targs.

[Craving Peaches]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

higher body temperature than most people

That would be harmful for non-germ cells as well because it denatures enzymes.

[Loose Bolt]

16 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

That would be harmful for non-germ cells as well because it denatures enzymes.

By that logic. If dragons are hot all male riders would sterilize themselves. After all they sit on very hot seat and their important body parts are near of source of heat.

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

By that logic. If dragons are hot all male riders would sterilize themselves. After all they sit on very hot seat and their important body parts are near of source of heat.

It's not really the same. People can sit near a fire and usually nothing happens, but if your body temperature it too hot inside because for whatever reason maintaining homeostasis hasn't worked, it will start to denature enzymes as the high temperature disrupts the bonding between proteins that make up the enzymes. This in turn would destroy your ability to carry out metabolic functions. This is why average body temperature is 36.5–37.5 °C. It is the optimum temperature for most enzymes.

[Damsel in Distress]

On 7/28/2023 at 9:35 PM, The Duck and the Field said:

Someone may have thought of this before, but I just had an idea about something that gets debated a lot on this site. It is mentioned that in addition to their affinity for dragonriding, Targaryens do not get normal infectious diseases. This idea seems to have been directly contradicted at several points in F&B, notably in the death of Daenerys Targaryen (the Elder). She developed the Shivers, a normal infectious disease in Westeros likely caused by a virus or a bacterial infection. So it seems that the idea of Targaryens being  particularly disease resistant was just propaganda for the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, right?

Well, one thing struck me about this episode. It's the last thing that Jaehaerys suggested to save Daenerys.

Perhaps the protection which the Targaryens purportedly had from infectious disease didn't come directly from their bloodline, but was a side-effect of their bond with their dragons. Is it possible that "bonding" with their dragons induces vigor and hardiness in them? Later on in F&B, we hear that Laena Velaryon died trying to get closer to her dragon, supposedly in order to ride one last time, but was it actually in an attempt to strengthen herself and save her own life? What do you think?

Aegon V was no dragon rider.  He was too soft and the dragons would have rejected him.  Still he was able to tolerate heat much better compared to the people around him.  Even thick Duncan noticed.  This is a mild case of human endurance though.  Noteworthy but not enough to call it superhuman.  Viserys and Daenerys on the other hand are something else.  Never getting sick is impossible for children in their environment.  No vaccines and yet their childhoods were free from illness and disease.  They have superhuman disease resistance and endurance.   I give credit to the fact that they are born from Targaryen parents who were born from Targaryen parents.  Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenerys were biologically close to what the Valyrians would have been at the height of the Freehold's power.  Physical perfection.  They are the promised generation.  Any of the three could have become the Prince Who Was Promised but Rhaegar and Viserys failed.  The role becomes Daenerys' to carry out. 

[Alester Florent]

10 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Aegon V was no dragon rider.  He was too soft and the dragons would have rejected him.  Still he was able to tolerate heat much better compared to the people around him.  Even thick Duncan noticed.  This is a mild case of human endurance though.  Noteworthy but not enough to call it superhuman.  Viserys and Daenerys on the other hand are something else.  Never getting sick is impossible for children in their environment.  No vaccines and yet their childhoods were free from illness and disease.  They have superhuman disease resistance and endurance.   I give credit to the fact that they are born from Targaryen parents who were born from Targaryen parents.  Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenerys were biologically close to what the Valyrians would have been at the height of the Freehold's power.  Physical perfection.  They are the promised generation.  Any of the three could have become the Prince Who Was Promised but Rhaegar and Viserys failed.  The role becomes Daenerys' to carry out. 

As tedious as I find these posts, I do have to admire your and your compadres' ability to take any topic and twist it into an explanation for why Daenerys is the bestest.