Nymor letter theories

[KingAerys_II]

31 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

I mean, relations with Deria weren't great. They just weren't overtly hostile. Deria still didn't lift a finger to stop the Vulture King.

Or maybe he and Aegon decided to be reasonable, swallow their pride and make nice with people who had nothing to do with his mother's death. Rhaenys was shot down trying to burn a castle, which she was attacking in a war of aggression ordered by Aegon. She was hardly an innocent victim in all this, and that she survived the fall at all, let alone being tortured thereafter, remains entirely speculative.

Reconciliation is a thing. Not everyone is all Walder Frey about it.

OK so according to you Aegon said this to his son that almost starved himself when her mother fell at Hellholt : "Son, let's have a party with the people that killed or brutally tortured your mother and murdered her". It sounds logical, right? 

Edited November 4, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[Alester Florent]

19 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

OK so according to you Aegon said this to his son that almost starved himself when her mother fell at Hellholt : "Son, let's have a party with the people that killed or brutally tortured your mother and murdered her". It sounds logical, right? 

How about, "Son, the peace with Dorne is important, and I know we have some beef with them, but it's important we head down there and show our faces. That's the kind of thing that you have to do when you're king, so come on".

Obviously if you take the most ridiculous possible reading of a character's actions then the outcome will be ridiculous. If, instead of that, you try to find a reading that makes sense, then often the outcome will make at least some sense. Funny how that works.

[KingAerys_II]

17 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

How about, "Son, the peace with Dorne is important, and I know we have some beef with them, but it's important we head down there and show our faces. That's the kind of thing that you have to do when you're king, so come on".

Obviously if you take the most ridiculous possible reading of a character's actions then the outcome will be ridiculous. If, instead of that, you try to find a reading that makes sense, then often the outcome will make at least some sense. Funny how that works.

Of course, during the feast they made a toast for the torture of his mother that gave peace and prosperity in Dorne

[Alester Florent]

44 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Of course, during the feast they made a toast for the torture of his mother that gave peace and prosperity in Dorne

Why did you even start this topic if you're not going to take any of the responses remotely seriously?

[KingAerys_II]

I don't know why Aegon wouldn't have avenged his wife brutally tortured and murdered, if he agreed to sign a treaty of eternal peace because of the threat to keep tormenting her

The peace with Dorne was more useful to Dorne than to the Iron Throne. The Indipendent Dorne gave lots of problems to the kings:

1.Second Dornish

2.Third dornish war

3.Fourth dornish war

4.Aliandra Martell encouraged raids in the dornish marches 

Edited November 4, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[KingAerys_II]

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

How about, "Son, the peace with Dorne is important, and I know we have some beef with them, but it's important we head down there and show our faces. That's the kind of thing that you have to do when you're king, so come on".

Obviously if you take the most ridiculous possible reading of a character's actions then the outcome will be ridiculous. If, instead of that, you try to find a reading that makes sense, then often the outcome will make at least some sense. Funny how that works.

 

53 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Of course, during the feast they made a toast for the torture of his mother that gave peace and prosperity in Dorne

My answers are very serious, they show the absurdity of those theories, especially the one about the tsunami on Dragonstone 

[SaffronLady]

Generally, people don't survive falls from dragons, as Prince Aegon the Uncrowned and King Daemon helpfully demonstrated when they crashed to their deaths by the God's Eye lake. The theory Queen Rhaenys somehow survived and was strong enough to be tortured by the Ullers really is just R18G illogical fanfiction.

Edited November 4, 2023 by SaffronLady
And seriously Aerys, you are the only one talking about tsunamis off Dragonstone.

[KingAerys_II]

5 minutes ago, SaffronLady said:

Generally, people don't survive falls from dragons, as Prince Aegon the Uncrowned and King Daemon helpfully demonstrated when they crashed to their deaths by the God's Eye lake. The theory Queen Rhaenys somehow survived and was strong enough to be tortured by the Ullers really is just R18G illogical fanfiction.

I am talking about the water magic stuff used on Dragonstone, c'mon it is illogical 

[SaffronLady]

Neither was I talking about using water magic ON DRAGONSTONE.

[KingAerys_II]

2 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

The water magic stuff is completely wrong, it's illogical fanfic. 

-There are no accounts of wizards using water against dragons during the dragon wroth 

-Dornishmen never used it against their neighbors, there are no accounts of water wizards since the arrival of Nymeria and magic against Gardener or Durrandon armies. 

-Morion Martell didn't use any magical stuff, he equipped the Myrish fleet with scorpion bolts, he died and the fleet was burned. 

-There are no account of Water Wizards during the Conquest of Dorne

-Water Wizards used the water of Mother Rhoyne against dragons. Mother Rhoyne is a river Goddess. 

It's illogical fanfic and I am surprised it has great success in this fandom

The water wizards stuff theory is completely wrong 

[KingAerys_II]

18 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Imagine Aegon saying to Aenys "Hey, son, let's have a party with the people that killed your mother and caused your mental breakdown, but don't worry, I have good relations with Deria Martell because she threatened me with magical stuff she never used when I tried to roast her people" 

It is logical, right? 

[SaffronLady]

1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said:

The water wizards stuff theory is completely wrong 

While my theory has loopholes, your so-called theory is torture porn that makes less sense.

If this is how you want to play this game, then bring it.

[KingAerys_II]

It's my fanfic theory that is not so bad compared to the theory made by the Maesters (Was Rhaenys still alive and the dornishmen promised to put an end out of her suffering?)

Meria and Ullers tortured Rhaenys , Deria and Nymor hired assassins to rescue her, the four consecutive Ullers died because of Nymor assassins, it is stated that only two assassins survived to receive the ransom:the assassins of Lady Toland and Lord Fowler.

So they rescued her and she was shipped to Dragonstone to receive the gift of mercy by Aegon himself, Rhaenys convinced Aegon to stop the devastation that almost annihilated the entire dornish population.

The theory must explain the following points that I used as clues to elaborate my reconstruction of the facts:

1.Aegon had good relations with Deria, he and Aenys celebrated a feast for peace in Sunspear just after Rhaena birth.

2. Aegon clenched the letter so hard his hand is bleeding (the letter reveals Meria, who is dead, tortured his sister who was alive).

3.Aegon flies to Dragonstone for some reason. (Rhaenys shipped to Dragonstone, she was in a brutal state, however she is able to explain her journey in Dorne to Aegon).

4.Her body was never recovered. (she is euthanized by Aegon and her body is burned as tradition)

5.The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers. It has no sense that an entire Tyrell army was no able to catch them and some people hired by the Iron Throne were able to murder 4 consecutive Lord of Hellholt in the desert. It was effective against the Ullers that were the lords that could have Rhaenys alive.

[SaffronLady]

22 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

1. Aegon had good relations with Deria, he and Aenys celebrated a feast for peace in Sunspear just after Rhaena birth.

It also happened to be the ten yr anniversary of the First Dornish War's end. This does not show Aegon had good relations with Deria.

24 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

2. Aegon clenched the letter so hard his hand is bleeding (the letter reveals Meria, who is dead, tortured his sister who was alive).

The text in and out of parantheses have no concrete connection.

25 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

3.Aegon flies to Dragonstone for some reason. (Rhaenys shipped to Dragonstone, she was in a brutal state, however she is able to explain her journey in Dorne to Aegon).

Same as above.

26 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

4.Her body was never recovered. (she is euthanized by Aegon and her body is burned as tradition)

Or her body might be bleached bones somewhere near Helholt. In short, same as above.

27 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

5.The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers. It has no sense that an entire Tyrell army was no able to catch them and some people hired by the Iron Throne were able to murder 4 consecutive Lord of Hellholt in the desert. It was effective against the Ullers that were the lords that could have Rhaenys alive.

An army operates on different rules than assassins.

[KingAerys_II]

Deria Martell kept good relations with the Iron Throne. 

Aegon and Aenys celebrated a feast of "peace AND FRIENDSHIP". 

The ransom strategy killed 6 lords : 4 Ullers, 1 Toland, 1 Fowler, it was particularly effective against the Ullers

[SaffronLady]

6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Aegon and Aenys celebrated a feast of "peace AND FRIENDSHIP". 

And so what exactly? Useful phrases. The Dornish didn't even propose a wedding to stop the wars.

[KingAerys_II]

It has more sense than any threat to turn Dragonstone into a water park for dragons, anyway

[SaffronLady]

34 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

It has more sense than any threat to turn Dragonstone into a water park for dragons, anyway

Which also happens to be a theory only you are working with, what a coincidence.

[KingAerys_II]

4 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

Generally, people don't survive falls from dragons, as Prince Aegon the Uncrowned and King Daemon helpfully demonstrated when they crashed to their deaths by the God's Eye lake. The theory Queen Rhaenys somehow survived and was strong enough to be tortured by the Ullers really is just R18G illogical fanfiction.

Aegon II survived the Battle of Rook Rest

 

4 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

While my theory has loopholes, your so-called theory is torture porn that makes less sense.

If this is how you want to play this game, then bring it.

The theory that  is  pure "torture porn" is actually one of the canonic theories made by the Maesters of the Citadel, my personal theory is based on that but it's not so terrible and don't consider Martells as monsters who kept tormenting the captive Queen

[Alester Florent]

15 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Aegon II survived the Battle of Rook Rest

He didn't fall from dragonback, and Sunfyre survived. There are only two instances I can think of where a character survived an immediately fatal attack on their dragon: Baela and Jacaerys. Jace survived (briefly) because his dragon was flying very low (and over water) at the time. Baela's dragon was still alive when it reached the ground. 

Meraxes was shot down at a height from which any fall would be expected to kill the rider and crash-landed with enough force to demolish a castle wall. No known dragonrider has survived anything like that. People can survive all sorts of crazy stuff, but it is far, far more likely that Rhaenys died in the fall. And other than conspiracy theories around the letter content do we actually have anything to suggest she didn't?

Edited November 4, 2023 by Alester Florent