Why didn’t Aegon III ever

[SaffronLady]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That is factually incorrect as all we learn in FaB is that Cregan wanted to punish Storm's End, Oldtown, and Casterly Rock for their treason, there is no indication that this was conditional on them accepting Rhaenyra as the late queen or Aegon III as her successor.

I mean, technically speaking, if the Greens are defined as traitors, would that not make Rhaenyra the legit queen by default? I don't see a way to accept Aegon II as legit while still accusing the Greens of treason.

 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, SaffronLady said:

I mean, technically speaking, if the Greens are defined as traitors, would that not make Rhaenyra the legit queen by default? I don't see a way to accept Aegon II as legit while still accusing the Greens of treason.

 

The point is that nothing in the text indicates Cregan wanted to show mercy if the Baratheons, Hightowers or Lannisters met certain imaginary terms. He wanted to punish those houses for their treason, not cow them into submission or force them to admit or agree to anything.

Aegon ll was never Cregan's king, of course, nor of the Lads or the Vale men. And Cregan and Larys and the entire court but the people they murdered and imprisoned turned Black.

People tend to forget that Aegon II had to be murdered so that Aegon III could be king. It was the ultimate treason, but nobody at court but, eventually, Cregan complained about that or wanted to avenge the king - and Cregan was driven by rigid principles (like Ned wanted to punish Jaime for Aerys) and the anger of a man who was cheated out of victory and glory by scheming cripples, old men, and women.

Aegon's death shows how Green his court was. And it also shows how Aegon II should be remembered: As a false king and usurper who was almost unanimously murdered by his court, a false king and usurper nobody wept for, nobody wanted to avenge ... while people fell over themselves to kiss the feet of Rhaenyra's son.

There is just no substance in the story to frame him as 'the rightful king'. Aegon's end is much worse than Rhaenyra's. He is completely done. Rhaenyra has already won the war when her visit to Dragonstone gets her killed. Her letters set superior armies in motion, her cause is strong enough that the fighting continues under her banner. Aegon has none of that. Even symbolism favors the Blacks in the end as Rhaenyra's stepdaughter hatches a dragon while Aegon fails.

Aegon should be the evil and monstrous half-brother in song and story, and he and Alicent should be as lovingly remembered as Stannis and Selyse are presented by the singers at Joffrey's wedding.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Lord Varys

[SaffronLady]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon should be the evil and monstrous half-brother in song and story, and he and Alicent should be as lovingly remembered as Stannis and Selyse are presented by the singers at Joffrey's wedding.

I cannot help but get a good laugh out of this. Fair point. By all accounts A2gon should be demonized like how the Lannister court did Stannis.

[daeronthedaring]

On 12/3/2023 at 5:40 AM, KingAerys_II said:

Viserys II recognized Aegon II as a king to dishinerit Aegon III daughters and to take the throne

This. Aegon III was a traumatized child (completely understandable, he's been through the ringer and back again) until the day he died, regardless of his actual age, and he didn't want to antagonize remaining Green sympathizers (all the little brother's in the realm ruling while their older sister's get nothing) by declaring Aegon II completely illegitimate. It seems to me Viserys II had no choice but to validate Aegon II's reign to justify taking the crown over the Maidenvault Princesses, and at that point, who wants to stick out their neck to argue with him?

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, daeronthedaring said:

This. Aegon III was a traumatized child (completely understandable, he's been through the ringer and back again) until the day he died, regardless of his actual age, and he didn't want to antagonize remaining Green sympathizers (all the little brother's in the realm ruling while their older sister's get nothing) by declaring Aegon II completely illegitimate. It seems to me Viserys II had no choice but to validate Aegon II's reign to justify taking the crown over the Maidenvault Princesses, and at that point, who wants to stick out their neck to argue with him?

That is pretty bad as an argument as Aegon III's reign in his own right starts with him antagonizing a Black loyalist (Torrhen Manderly). The guy may have been depressed, but certainly willing and capable to piss people off. Just think how let regents and court and lords prepare for a progress he knew he would never do. That was a big 'Fuck you!' to the entire Realm.

The succession of Baelor is an issue decades after the Dance and has nothing to do with it as Rhaenyra was only heir because her father named her - while chances are almost zero that Baelor ever named one of his sisters his heir.

[frenin]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:00 PM, daeronthedaring said:

regardless of his actual age, and he didn't want to antagonize remaining Green sympathizers

He did tho. Ask the Baratheons, he ostracized quite literally for not supporting his mother.

Quote

  With his [Borros] death and the defeat of his stormlanders, the Dance of the Dragons was all but over. House Baratheon had gambled greatly in supporting King Aegon II, and it was a choice that brought them nothing but ill during the reign of King Aegon III (the Dragonbane) and the regency preceding it.

  As the years passed, and king followed king upon the Iron Throne, these old rifts were forgotten, and the Baratheons came to serve the crown faithfully once more… until the Targaryens themselves put that loyalty to the test.

 

The idea that he did not want to antagonize Greens, or anyone for that matter, falls flat when the little we know about him is him antagonizing powerful lords.

But i do find likely that Aegon II as the legitimate king was settled with Viserys' ascension as simple realpolitik and it'd be as ironic as a Green killing Jaehara.

Edited December 12, 2023 by frenin