Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 despite westeros famously having a lot of gold mines the gold to silver price ratio is incredibly high based on the value of the coinage, why do you think this is? astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 5 hours ago, Alden Rothack said: despite westeros famously having a lot of gold mines the gold to silver price ratio is incredibly high based on the value of the coinage, why do you think this is? Probably the % of valuable metal or weight/size of coins A gold dragon is worth wayyy more than a silver stag so unless theres a big difference in size or weight the common sense awnser would be that due to the lannisters massive gold volumes a gold dragon is exactly that..a piece of pure gold! Silver being rarer is proably melted as a veneer over ordinary metal to make a stag hence despite being rarer the coins not worth as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 38 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Probably the % of valuable metal or weight/size of coins A gold dragon is worth wayyy more than a silver stag so unless theres a big difference in size or weight the common sense awnser would be that due to the lannisters massive gold volumes a gold dragon is exactly that..a piece of pure gold! Silver being rarer is proably melted as a veneer over ordinary metal to make a stag hence despite being rarer the coins not worth as much. I'd expect a dragon to be a heavier coin than a stag. Although a pound sterling was an accounting unit, rather than a coin, in medieval England, my headcanon makes a dragon worth a pound, and a stag worth a penny (there were 240 pence to the pound). The first gold sovereigns were minted in 1489, and were fourteen grams. A silver penny was about one tenth of that weight, which implies that the value of gold was about 24 times that of silver in 1489. Today, gold is worth about 90 times the value of silver. Edited February 16 by SeanF Mad King Bolton, astarkchoice and Northern Sword 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, astarkchoice said: Probably the % of valuable metal or weight/size of coins A gold dragon is worth wayyy more than a silver stag so unless theres a big difference in size or weight the common sense awnser would be that due to the lannisters massive gold volumes a gold dragon is exactly that..a piece of pure gold! Silver being rarer is proably melted as a veneer over ordinary metal to make a stag hence despite being rarer the coins not worth as much. it has to be worth enough to make copper coins worth having 51 minutes ago, SeanF said: I'd expect a dragon to be a heavier coin than a stag. Although a pound sterling was an accounting unit, rather than a coin, in medieval England, my headcanon makes a dragon worth a pound, and a stag worth a penny (there were 240 pence to the pound). The first gold sovereigns were minted in 1489, and were fourteen grams. A silver penny was about one tenth of that weight, which implies that the value of gold was about 24 times that of silver in 1489. Today, gold is worth about 90 times the value of silver. I prefer five guineas for the dragon and therefore six pence for the stag, astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, Alden Rothack said: it has to be worth enough to make copper coins worth having I prefer five guineas for the dragon and therefore six pence for the stag, I can't remember the exchange rate, but if one views a stag as worth, say, a third of a day's wages, (on the basis that one stag = one English silver penny), copper coinage would still make sense. astarkchoice and Aldarion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, SeanF said: I can't remember the exchange rate, but if one views a stag as worth, say, a third of a day's wages, (on the basis that one stag = one English silver penny), copper coinage would still make sense. well six pence isn't incompatible with that depending on when, where and who most people in the seven kingdoms probably get about that a day if they are doing well astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Its a pith that we dont get much westeros = essos currency exchange rates. Yeah the gold dragon probably is pure gold and the stag probably just the much rarer silver poured over cheaper metal. Unlike real life and medieval times we are in a world where theres apparently semi unlimited gold! Gold itself is probably tightly controlled by the lannister..like the saudis and oil! We know since the rains of castermere they control the significant gold mines that allowed the tarbecks and reynes to think they could challenge the lannisters so their control of it would be even tighter than ever! Im assuming the mining is controlled and it says there are still untapped seams! Given the crowns massive debts to the lannisters, the money loaned by tywins father that his vassals wanted to pay back after the castermere slaughter and jamies frequent wins at roberts absurdly lucrative and frequent tourneys the current lannistets probably didnt even have to dip into the gold that often! I think house lefford at the golden tooth are the only other family we hear of with significant gold in westerlands other than whoever owns the unspecified pendric hills and nunns deep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 I think that the point of view in the books gives us an incorrect idea of how common gold is there being 80 million gold dragons in existence doesn't mean that every other person has one of them, it means that a very very small number of very rich people have lots and most people have none I suspect the stag is near pure silver, fifty coppers to one silver is already rather high after all, that would put a copper star at one half farthing for a six pence stag. astarkchoice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said: I think that the point of view in the books gives us an incorrect idea of how common gold is there being 80 million gold dragons in existence doesn't mean that every other person has one of them, it means that a very very small number of very rich people have lots and most people have none I suspect the stag is near pure silver, fifty coppers to one silver is already rather high after all, that would put a copper star at one half farthing for a six pence stag. Ooh yeah for sure just like today really But id say the gold dragon is probably pure and the stag just silver coated to explain the large gap in value there OR we simply arent picturing the size and weights right with maybe a stag being a slim small coin and a dragon a thicker bogher coin overall! Or something in between the 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 23 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Ooh yeah for sure just like today really But id say the gold dragon is probably pure and the stag just silver coated to explain the large gap in value there OR we simply arent picturing the size and weights right with maybe a stag being a slim small coin and a dragon a thicker bogher coin overall! Or something in between the 2 I disagree that the stag is silver plated, it would need to be near pure silver for it to be worth fifty copper ones a fairly large dragon explains the gap rather better than the idea of a very low value stag does the ratio between it and the copper coins. thats why I suggested something like the five guinea coin for the dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: I disagree that the stag is silver plated, it would need to be near pure silver for it to be worth fifty copper ones a fairly large dragon explains the gap rather better than the idea of a very low value stag does the ratio between it and the copper coins. thats why I suggested something like the five guinea coin for the dragon Yeah it could be a nice thick large coin , we hear of a single dragon catching folks attention too which would fit! The only currency issue now we have in th literature is grmms outragous tourney prizes!! Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 14 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: I disagree that the stag is silver plated, it would need to be near pure silver for it to be worth fifty copper ones a fairly large dragon explains the gap rather better than the idea of a very low value stag does the ratio between it and the copper coins. thats why I suggested something like the five guinea coin for the dragon Agreed. Back in the day, people detested silver coins that were just a veneer over base metal. A stag is likely 90-95% pure. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, astarkchoice said: Yeah it could be a nice thick large coin , we hear of a single dragon catching folks attention too which would fit! The only currency issue now we have in th literature is grmms outragous tourney prizes!! thats not a currency problem, thats a fools with money problem. Robert then Anguy spending it like water is consistent with them being fools Loras giving the prize to The Hound for saving his life on the other hand is entirely good sense, his life probably is worth that much particularly to him 2 minutes ago, SeanF said: Agreed. Back in the day, people detested silver coins that were just a veneer over base metal. A stag is likely 90-95% pure. I agree its as pure as they can make it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 35 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: thats not a currency problem, thats a fools with money problem. Robert then Anguy spending it like water is consistent with them being fools Loras giving the prize to The Hound for saving his life on the other hand is entirely good sense, his life probably is worth that much particularly to him Yeah but even then thats a insane amount of spending for the archer 38 minutes ago, SeanF said: Agreed. Back in the day, people detested silver coins that were just a veneer over base metal. A stag is likely 90-95% pure. True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, astarkchoice said: Yeah but even then thats a insane amount of spending for the archer True people spending their money insanely fast does happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 17 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said: people spending their money insanely fast does happen If he cnlan spend that much in that short of time then...a respectable %, of the crown debt will be robert eating, drinking, gambling and fucking in the same places ! Not a case of long live the king but how did the king live so long Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, astarkchoice said: If he cnlan spend that much in that short of time then...a respectable %, of the crown debt will be robert eating, drinking, gambling and fucking in the same places ! Not a case of long live the king but how did the king live so long That was the case for some real kings, peace is a terrible thing for a warrior king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 14 hours ago, Alden Rothack said: despite westeros famously having a lot of gold mines the gold to silver price ratio is incredibly high based on the value of the coinage Is it? This subject has been discussed before. The books contain very few specific examples of prices; and I don't think there's any mention of a gold-to-silver exchange rate. Did I miss something? What is the ratio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I think the value isn't even consistent in-universe. The prizes in the first game are ridiculous when you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 5 minutes ago, Aebram said: Is it? This subject has been discussed before. The books contain very few specific examples of prices; and I don't think there's any mention of a gold-to-silver exchange rate. Did I miss something? What is the ratio? the coins suggest so by their relation to each other so absent other information we may take the fact as given 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I think the value isn't even consistent in-universe. The prizes in the first game are ridiculous when you think about it. thats not a problem with the currency, the prizes being a hundred times too high is entirely consistent with Robert massively overspending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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