SFDanny Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Hasn't GRRM flat-out said Ned is dead a few times or is that just my imagination? 3. Is Ned Dead? Ned is dead. (SSR) Now, bringing him back from the dead is another question. Would he do it? No. Ned is dead and is going to stay dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shewoman Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 No. Ned is killed in an Arya PoV. She sees Joffrey, Cersei, the Hound, 4 Kingsguard, Varys, Littlefinger (although she's not sure of his name) and Sansa together around Ned at the sept doors. She notes that Joffrey smiles at Sansa just before ordering Ser Ilyn to take Ned's head and she hears Sansa scream. In Sansa's next POV she remembers what happened. "Waking or sleeping, she saw him, saw the gold cloaks fling him down, saw Ser Ilyn striding forward, unsheathing Ice from the scabbard on his back, saw the moment . . . the moment when . . . she had wanted to look away, she had wanted to, her legs had gone out from under her and she had fallen to her knees, yet somehow she could not turn her head, and all the people were screaming and shouting, and her prince had smiled at her, he'd smiled and she'd felt safe, but only for a heartbeat, until he'd said those words, and her father's legs, that was what she remembered, his legs, the way . . . they'd jerked when Ser Ilyn . . . when the sword . . ." She was right there when it happened. She knew it was her father and she saw him die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Truth Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Just to add fuel to this debate, allow me to point out that prior to his supposed demise, Lord Eddard was sharing a dungeon with a certain expert at concealment and disguise - Jaqen H'ghar, a faceless man from Braavos. If anyone could disguise someone to look Exactly like Eddard Stark, he certainly could. This would also fit with the Varys/Illyrio as perpetrator(s) angle, as Varys has numerous contacts across the narrow sea, and Illyrio certainly has the money to hire a faceless man. If all this did transpire, it's suddenly much less of a coincidence that Jaqen winds up travelling north with Eddard's daughter. In fact, to stretch theory a little further, this could fit into the 'life for a life' theme that's played out elsewhere (Rhaego for Drogo, Mirri Maaz Dur for the dragons, etc.) - in this instance, perhaps a bargain of Arya's life in service as a faceless (wo)man in exchange for Eddard's life. A bargain negotiated by Varys and Illyrio perhaps? As theories go, i've heard crazier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalan Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 ZOmbre tHread NaaaOwwwrrr!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 In fact, to stretch theory a little further, this could fit into the 'life for a life' theme that's played out elsewhere (Rhaego for Drogo, Mirri Maaz Dur for the dragons, etc.) - in this instance, perhaps a bargain of Arya's life in service as a faceless (wo)man in exchange for Eddard's life. A bargain negotiated by Varys and Illyrio perhaps? As theories go, i've heard crazier. It's not a life for a life; it's "only death can pay for life." A small, put significant difference. Arya does not die, so her death cannot pay for Ned's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Wolf Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Nightflyer? Is that You??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Sweetrobin Arryn Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Sorry, but Ned is dead. Those of you who believe that he may be should ask why GRRM would have any reason to bring him back. There is only one reason I can think of and it hasn't been proven yet (R+L=J). If the theory actually holds true there are plenty other ways to out with the facts of a lineage than resort to bad storytelling and reawaken a 3 book-long dormant character. GRRM is not a bad storyteller and won't keep Ned (who really had to die for this to be a good story). Honestly there are way more legitimate reasons to keep him dead than have him be alive for a single reason that is dubious at best. I liked Ned too but there's really no way. It would be beyond disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.t. Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Cersei is awoken in her Cell under the Great Sept. And before her stands Eddard Stark. "What? How? Am I delirious?" "That which is dead never dies, but rises harder and stronger." The man who should be dead, the younger brother of Brandon Stark, lunges forward to strangle Cersei with both hands. She can only gasp, "How?" "Plot immunity, bitch." And then the breath of life leaves her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfeyoung Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 A revived POV in Dance? Could be Ned, but in flash backs of Robert's rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 This thread is funny... I had the exact same reaction when I first read AGOT. I refused to believe Ned was dead. My main points to think that were: 1. We only see the execution from Arya's POV, far away 2. Sansa later notes that the head on a spike does not resemble her father much. And I kept believing that Varys had Ned tucked away somewhere as I read ACOK. It wasn't until the Bran/Rickon death fake-out that I gave up on the (desperate) theory. There's no way GRRM would pull the "gotcha, he's not dead!" after already using it once on Bran/Rickon. Now after accepting that I realized that I was just being willfully ignorant of evidence against my theory. There's a LOT of small details that point to Ned actually being dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 And I kept believing that Varys had Ned tucked away somewhere as I read ACOK. It wasn't until the Bran/Rickon death fake-out that I gave up on the (desperate) theory. There's no way GRRM would pull the "gotcha, he's not dead!" after already using it once on Bran/Rickon. How much of a gotcha was that? The two boys playing the roles of dead Bran and Rickon did not have faces or at least unrecognizable ones (as far as I can remember I never thought Bran and Rickon were dead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 i think a flashback ned pov chapter would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourniquet Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Now after accepting that I realized that I was just being willfully ignorant of evidence against my theory. There's a LOT of small details that point to Ned actually being dead. Not to mention one large (human-head sized) reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 And I kept believing that Varys had Ned tucked away somewhere as I read ACOK. It wasn't until the Bran/Rickon death fake-out that I gave up on the (desperate) theory. There's no way GRRM would pull the "gotcha, he's not dead!" after already using it once on Bran/Rickon. And don't forget Arya in ASOS (His (Sandor's) axe hit her at the back of her head.) Really, besides all the evidence and small details from the books - Ned smiling at Sansa, Ned confessing to non-existant crimes for Sansa's sake, several characters recognizing him as Ned; besides Martin's word that Ned is dead - SFDanny provided linkfor this; wouldn't you consider Ned's return as a POV in ADWD as an example of bad writing? Returning a character to life after he was supposedly dead for half a series would be a case of magnificent Ass Pull. Ned died - and several actions and reactions already happened because of his death. Reviving him after all that happened in 3 books is not a good way to continue the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodgex Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Not to mention one large (human-head sized) reason... Could always be another body, you never know fully.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Eddard warged into Ilyn Payne right before the final blow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Could always be another body, you never know fully.... Accept that we do know fully, because GRRM told us in a SSM that Ned is dead. Seriously, it's quoted at the top of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombiecat Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I love Ned, but that would be so cheap and lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ned is dead. Without question. Most of the time when the head is removed from the body life processes terminate. The human body is odd that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmflavius Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Ned is dead. Without question. Most of the time when the head is removed from the body life processes terminate. The human body is odd that way. Ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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