The Hobbit Movie

[The hairy bear]

While I agree with HE in some of the narrative problems he identifies in the Hobbit, I would be really pissed with some of the changes proposed; specially the romance between Bard an an Elvish princess.

Relationships between humans and elves where extremely rare in Tolkien's world. There has been only four cases during three ages lasting several millenia. It would be, IMO, a huge desviation from the original content.

I imagine they could put in a fanboy bonus with a kid named Estel turning up in Riverrun for a scene. Only needs 10 seconds or so.

Good idea. He could be playing with Cat, Lysa and Petyr.

[Tobin]

It's the way these stories have always worked, though. The special weapon, for the special deed. Magical swords, arrows, spears, whatever go back to the oldest myths: Greek, Norse, what have you. Usually they are given by the Gods, or whatever, but they've always been a part of fantasy and mythological fare. It's a big part of what the genre is all about.

She died that way too, :cry:

Was I the only kid upset that Smaug didn't take precautions and glue a shield over the hole Bilbo saw? His neck was surely long enough to let him look for himself and make repairs after the hobbit left.

That would have been a fabulous twist:

Bard: "Black arrow, fly true!" twang!...*boink*

Bard:

Smaug: "Heh, I installed some upgrades, Lake-Tards! have some HOT DEATH!"

Laketown:

*sigh* - I need to make my own movies. Monsters need love too!

[Jacen]

I still have a soft spot for the somewhat corny/shitty animated version of the Hobbit

http://www.geocities.com/pictolkien/RankinBasstheHobbit.jpg

[Guarneri]

I'm not a purist. I didn't mind Arwen's expanded role, Gimili being tossed, twice, etc. But making the smaug attack at the same time as the battle of five armies removes all kinds of character development and moivations.

Character development is to Tolkein as writing while sober is to Goodkind.

[Brude]

I still have a soft spot for the somewhat corny/shitty animated version of the Hobbit

The Rankin & Bass style sort of worked fine for 'The Hobbit,' at least as kiddie fare, but it failed miserably for "The Return of the King."

[Blaine]

I hate to say it, but I sort of love that song. It's especially funny if you sing it over a bondage video.

[Galactus]

I love that song too....

[Brude]

I hate to say it, but I sort of love that song. It's especially funny if you sing it over a bondage video.

I always imagine the 8 or 10 man chorus who had to sing this in the recording studio. I always see them as these kind of middle-aged guy in turtle-neck sweaters singing their hearts out, punching the air three times during the line "but the Lord of the Lash says nay, nay, nay!" Just a funny image to me.

[Blaine]

It belongs on a special compilation with the extraordinarily homoerotic "I'll Make A Man Out Of You" from Mulan.

[Galactus]

It belongs on a special compilation with extraordinarily homoerotic "I'll Make A Man Out Of You" from Mulan.

Of course it is homoerotic. That's the point.

And oh, so ironic.

(I love that song too incidentally, but then I have a weakness for Disney-style musical songs)

[Happy Ent]

Bard is king because he killed the dragon.

Ok, yes. Maybe you're right.

So move the dragonslaying scene to 75% of the movie, as an early climax. Then more focus on Bard, including him joining the Battle. That is then the main climax, and the main emotional focus when Thorin dies.

I still feel that Bard comes out of nowhere. (As he does in the book, but books are slower, so we can introduce an important character late and the reader will still have hours to warm up to him/her/it.) For the movie, I'd expect him to have screen time right from the start. Flashbacks from the area around Laketown could work, when Thorin lays out the adventure in Bag End so the audience can see what happens there. There might be several glimpses there of young Bard rallying troops against the dragon, maybe also showing us the incompetence of the other Laketowners. Cast a famous actor, so the audience knows he'll be an important character. It will be clear to us that the only hope for mankind is if this young captain gets to become king/general.

Gandalf could make the detour to Dol Goldur, fight the necromancer and get the Famous Arrow of Dragon Slaying +5/no save. This could then be given to Bard.

Or something like that. Anybody versed in the difficult art of screenwriting can pull that off.

I maintain that it's a pretty straightforward story to adapt.

[Bronn Stone]

I'd like to see The Hobbit made with as few changes as possible.

But I will propose a few.

Maybe you spend more time on Laketown's backstory to counter Bard appearing at the end. Maybe you actually show the coming of Smaug in the first place. Maybe the Black Arrow is a Dwarven relic and forged to slay dragons - it somehow ends up in human hands during the chaos of the dwarven retreat from the Lonely Mountain and is passed down to Bard - though it original purpose is long forgotten. You keep the thirteen dwarves, but most of them become chorus - with even less individual personality than Tolkien gave them if that is possible.

Where possible, I'd rather see PJ (or whoever) expand on what Tolkien wrote, filling in some back story, but not actually changing existing details except where absolutely necessary.

I think the trolls can be made menacing enough with only minor changes. But I do think the names have to go. And some of their quaintness.

[Demonblade]

Character development is to Tolkein as writing while sober is to Goodkind.

QFT

[Rimmer]

You keep the thirteen dwarves, but most of them become chorus - with even less individual personality than Tolkien gave them if that is possible.

It'd be pretty easy to just have them standing in their groups of two or three all the time, each group dressed alike with the same basic personality. That's pretty much how they are in the book.

[Eurytus]

Lets hope they include a scene where Thorin sits down and sings about Gold.

You know, for the fans.

[Happy Ent]

Lets hope they include a scene where Thorin sits down and sings about Gold.

Also, Gandalf should take the curious map and go north.

And Beorn gives some lunch to you.

Good times. For the children on the board: The Hobbit text adventure from 1982 @ Wikipedia.

[Pathetic]

Even a needle can kill you if you get it in the heart.

It definitely can, depending heavily on the size of the pin vs. the heart and the exact part of the heart that is punctured -- but it's always good to keep in mind that, considering overall survival rates of cardiac stab wound victims, a human might have a 25-45% chance of staying alive for at least 30 minutes without (and surviving with) prompt medical help after being stabbed in the heart. The probability of a pin-prick sized wound in the heart disabling a healthy adult human within 5 minutes must be well under 50%, and I would assume dragons are at least as capable of surviving injuries as humans, relatively speaking.

A broad bladed, extremely heavy arrow launched at a ridiculous velocity (for medieval technology bows) might be capable of penetrating the several feet of flesh necessary to prick Smaug's aorta (obviously it missed the ribs...), which could quite possibly cause the aorta to rip open, meaning massive haemorrhage and loss of consciousness in 30-60 seconds + however long a dragon's brain works without fresh blood.

Which is all hugely beside the point. In nearly all fantasy, dragons, like all monsters larger than humans, suck ass and die at the drop of a hat because they are meant to be killed by any old human(oid) who has the guts to stand and fight them.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Ok, perhaps Smaug did not die imeadiatly the arrow struck him. But was unable to fly as a result and dropped live a stone, then drowned in the water?

[Guarneri]

Back in my day we had to walk five miles. Uphill. In the snow. Before we could shoot arrows at dragons, and you kids are complaining at how easy it is now adays. Bah!

[BLU-RAY]

I like the idea proposed of flashbacks to Bard and their plight under the Dragon while the expedition is being set up. I also really think that larger implications should be mentioned; remember, Gandalf supported the expedition not to help the Dwarves regain their gold, but instead to get rid of the Dragon, which Sauron was counting on to break resistance in the Dale and Erebor areas and thus create an avenue of attack to Rivendell and Eriador (see The Quest of Erebor).