Jon Targaryen Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 When next we see Selmy he is bearded and fighting with a quarterstaff. Maybe one of the secrets he tells Dany is she has a half-brother, a smart, strong half-brother who is a leader of men, capable commander, etc. It has been noted, yes. And Jon would be a nephew. Welcome to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Mallister Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 It has been noted, yes. And Jon would be a nephew. Welcome to the board. a very hot and sexually expirienced nephew who is a commander of men and someone who could be considered a husband, and therefore a perfect mate to a conquerer who needs allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoannaL Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 IAnyhow, Jon notices a White Bearded man (maybe grey) leaning on a staff. It is one line among a few detailing new recruits. The old man described there doesn't show up again at the Wall. Thank you, I didn't notice. What an interesting detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbringer03 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I am a lurker, and part-time at that. If this has been noted, my apologies. I believe that Barristan Selmy went to the Wall to check out Jon Snow first, before heading overseas to meet with Dany. I think he knows about R+L=J. Jon is in the training yard, although not training. I believe he was still injured after the Wildlings fight (I do not have the books at hand, and it has been some time since I have reread them). Anyhow, Jon notices a White Bearded man (maybe grey) leaning on a staff. It is one line among a few detailing new recruits. The old man described there doesn't show up again at the Wall. When next we see Selmy he is bearded and fighting with a quarterstaff. Maybe one of the secrets he tells Dany is she has a half-brother, a smart, strong half-brother who is a leader of men, capable commander, etc. What?!? When did this happen? What book? So much detail I've overlooked in these books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Targaryen Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 What?!? When did this happen? What book? So much detail I've overlooked in these books. The first Jon chapter in ACOK, iirc. Jon, Sam and Donal Noye are observing some new recruits and the old man with the staff is among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 a very hot and sexually expirienced nephew who is a commander of men and someone who could be considered a husband, and therefore a perfect mate to a conquerer who needs allies Could be considered a husband, but can not be, if Jon is going to keep his vows. Jon gave an oath to protect the realm not to conquer it alone or with somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Also, the only three remaining KG loyal to the Targaryens all being at the tower of joy and not one with Viserys. Hard to explain if Jon is a bastard. As much as I do believe that Rhaegar married Lyanna, I can't agree with this assertion. It is impossible to speculate intelligently about any major act Rhaegar took in his life without tying that in to the prophecy he read as a youth. It clearly guided his life - not only in the context of his becoming a warrior in the first place but after AFFC we have proof from Aemon that Rhaegar continued to be guided by it throughout his life. GRRM has kept the details of this prophecy from us for an extended period of time - we have to assume that his reason for doing so is that it would reveal too much. Another secret kept from us from practically the beginning is Jon's parentage. You have to concede that it is at least possible that these are the same secret. And if so, if Rhaegar's guiding prophecy told him that his son by a daughter of Winterfell would someday save the realm, then it is possible that he'd devote all of his remaining resources to making that son's birth happen, whether he had married the mom or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 And if so, if Rhaegar's guiding prophecy told him that his son by a daughter of Winterfell would someday save the realm, then it is possible that he'd devote all of his remaining resources to making that son's birth happen, whether he had married the mom or not. I dont' think that Rhaegar knew who will be born, it could be a daughter. If kingsguards give an oath to protect Rhaegars' child, even he/she is a bastard, they still should protect Viserys as a heir and send at least one of them to Dragon Stone. All of them stayed at ToJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 I dont' think that Rhaegar knew who will be born, it could be a daughter. If kingsguards give an oath to protect Rhaegars' child, even he/she is a bastard, they still should protect Viserys as a heir and send at least one of them to Dragon Stone. All of them stayed at ToJ. Why? The prophecy could make it clear that Rhaegar's son is all that matters, not who sits on the rusty old chair in Kings Landing. The fate of humanity need not rest on a continuation of the Targ dynasty, simply on the shoulders of one infant. ETA - Ser Arthur Dayne is/was Rhaegar's closest friend. It is hardly a stretch to think a knight of Dayne's well-documented devotion to duty and self-sacrifice would be someone whom Rhaegar let in on the secret. If Rhaegar convinced Dayne of the importance of the baby, he'd make sure that any orders Rhaegar gave to make the protection of the child the ONLY priority for the KG got followed - at least by those over whom he had influence. He wasn't LC after all. Second edit - it is the same question that arises out of the first two Terminator films. You are a somewhat ditzy diner waitress who learns that the future portends a disaster of epic proportions for humankind unless you become a warrior and teach your son (then unborn) to save the world. And between T1 and T2 Sarah Connor does just that. Could you do it? I can't say for sure but I think I could, as long as I believed that the 'prophecy' I'd heard was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Why? The prophecy could make it clear that Rhaegar's son is all that matters, not who sits on the rusty old chair in Kings Landing. The fate of humanity need not rest on a continuation of the Targ dynasty, simply on the shoulders of one infant. Rhaegar was sure that Lyanna will give birth to their son? Why not to the daughter? Did Lyanna take an ultrasound examination before the battle at Trident? Kigsguards give the oath to protect the king first of all and then his family. That is their duty, that's why they are supposed to go to Dragon Stone after Aerys' death, if Lyanna's child is a bastard and the bastard can not be the prince if not legitimized, that means the newborn babe should not be the Prince that was promised, otherwise, the prophecy would name the Bastard who was promised as a savor of the realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholtzma Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Also, how twisted would it be if Rhaegar actually wanted/thought it should be a daughter (like Aegon and his two wives) and it was Jon, a boy? Although, if that were the case it wouldn't make any sense that the KG were guarding "it" so adamantly, since a baby of the wrong sex definitely wouldn't fulfill a prophesy properly at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Rhaegar was sure that he must have one more child since the dragon must have three heads. The sex of the child would be less important. We don’t know the prophecy exactly but I doubt that sex of the tree heads was specified there. Actually I’m sure of the opposite since we know now that dragon is neither male nor female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoannaL Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Rhaegar was sure that he must have one more child since the dragon must have three heads. Why exactly ? He thought of Aegon do be 'the song of ice and fire' . And there where Rhaenys and Viserys so two more Targs available which could be 'heads' to aid Aegon. I always wondered about that. The prophecy must be about something else or something more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Because he switched from thinking Summerhall made the prophecy apply to him to thinking that it applied to his children. One assumes there's a conceived in fire clause, to match the amidst smoke and salt clause. Since fire and executions made Aerys randy, it's not unthinkable that Rhaegar and his sister were both conceived with similar backstories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim of Starfall Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 To get back to the topic of Ser Barristan I did not notice the old man in teh NW training. That is a very interesting tidbit of information. But more to the point, my own theory is that Barristan put the parentage of Jon Snow together for himself only AFTER he bend the knee and sworn loyalty to Robert (he did that on or just after the Trident right?). Jon was born after that, at the very end of the rebellion. Barristan probably was in charge of the KG people who were at the Trident and he probably thought they were either with Aerys in KL or with Viserys and others on Dragonstone. I don't remember, but i thikn he was either wounded or under very heavy guard. He probably heard about the fate of the White Bull and the tower after Ned Stark comes up to KL with Jon with him and the story of the location of Lyanna. He would also not know if Jon is legimite or not, and that WOULD matter for Barristan, since he won't support a bastard Targ over a legimite Targ. He probably assumed that Lyanna was raped/forced or coerced and that Jon is a bastard. He probably stayed silent for his own honor/life about this (it doesn't add too much, since at that time Viserys would still be first in line. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezeh Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Myself I don’t think that Selmy was aware about Lyanna’s pregnancy if the R+L=J theory is right. Yet if marriage between Rhaegar and Lyanna took place Arthur Dayne almost surely was witness there as Rhaegar closest friend and Rhaegar definitely needed some witness. Three KG also left KL on some point on Rhaegar’s order and Selmy probably knew or guessed what orders they got. He may also know more about Rhaegar motivations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It should be any record about those events, 3 kingsguards at the ToJ fate particularly, in the white book of the kingsquard which Jaime loves to read. Barristan was LC, he should write down something there. But if Barristan did it, then Jaime knows everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Storm Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I don't know if the White Book would say that Prince Rhaegar married Lyanna Stark and three of the KG were sent down there to protect her. It might give some insight on who gave the orders and why they were there and not at the Trident. The White Book more records the deeds of the KG not what was happening to the rest of the realm or KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roza Ahai Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 The White Book more records the deeds of the KG not what was happening to the rest of the realm or KL. Yes, i meant this. Barristan was the LC, he should record something about those 3 kingsguards or leave it blank. Maybe Jaime could help to look inside of that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBaron Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I always thought Barristan was one of those characters who had to much information. I hope he is more forthcoming about what he knows, than say Maester Aemon was in AFFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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