Boxeo- The BIG one! 2nd big fight of the year; Pac-man v. Hatton, reactions!

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]EHK why do you call Katsidis the 'young turk'? Isn't he Australian of Greek descent? Any Greek I've ever met would take that as an insult.[/quote]

Heh...didn't know about the Greek descent, but I guess that makes sense with the name. If I'd known, I probably wouldn't have used the term. I was just trying to mark him as the young, hungry and energetic fighter trying to dethrone the grizzled veteran. Nothing more sinister than that.

Finally saw the fight in its entirety and I've got to say I marked it for Marquez. He was punching much more effectively in the last two rounds I thought. I gave the 7th fairly solidly to Marquez. And I had a bit of trouble scoring the 9th, thought that could go either way. The rest were more or less in line with the other judges. I don't think it was a screw job by any means, but I definitely had it for Marquez. He does seem to get the short end of the stick alot.

As for the next big fight, I think Hopkins is a perfect opponent for Calzaghe. He's a big name, which means big money. He's respected enough for it to be considered a legitimate fight. He has semi-legend status, which looks great for Calzaghe's at one point quite questionable legacy. And he's over the hill enough that Calzaghe SHOULD be able to take him. Its certainly not a sure thing, but Hopkins is a fighter that could provide him everything he was looking for without posing an EXTREME threat. Besides, Calzaghe isn't exactly a spring chicken himself, so most people have less problem with him fighting a near geriatric. And its not like Bernard Hopkins is a pure has-been resting on his laurels. He's fought big enough fights lately and mostly won them. Although I wasn't terribly impressed with the Winky Wright fight, between that and Tarver, he still remains a legitimate fighter. Two elder 'legends' clashing in one last go around before the likely retirement of both men in a year or two. (although Calzaghe isn't THAT old, but I got the impression he was only interested in a few more fights before hanging em up)


As for Cotto/Mayweather, I almost think it HAS to happen. Mayweather is legacy conscious. And Cotto is the consensus best fighter in and around the weight class who isn't named Floyd Mayweather. Most boxing fans are clamoring for it. And Cotto's name is on the rise so there may soon be some mainstream demand. It won't be near as big money as a De La Hoya rematch, but there will be money. And if Mayweather beats Cotto, I don't think most boxing fans will have much of a problem placing Mayweather amongst the greats in the weight class.

I think that once Mayweather is done cashing in on the star power of De La Hoya, he'll finally take on Cotto. Could be wrong, but that really seems like a fight that HAS to happen. Mosely I'm much less certain that'll happen. He lost to Cotto after all and as eager as Mayweather is for an enduring legacy, he also seems fairly eager to ride off into the sunset, cash in hand. He'll probably figure that taking out Cotto (if he does) is enough to solidify the legacy he's looking for.

[Paladin of Ice]

Bottom line thoughts: I think Calzaghe will overwhelm Hopkins fairly easily. Hopkins' activity in fights has been way down in recent bouts, I think I remember him only averaging something like between 10-20 punches per round in one, (or maybe both) of the fights against Taylor. (That said he certainly put himself back with the wins against Tarver and Winky).

If he has that same level of activity against Calzaghe, with Calzaghe's fast hands and 100 punches per round pace, Calzaghe will run right over him, either by points or on a stoppage. As I see it Hopkins has a real uphill battle.

Cotto vs Mayweather will be good if it ever happens. At this point though, I find it very hard to bet against Mayweather... if it does I think his foot and hand speed will win the day, although Cotto will make it tough for him and pressure him a lot in the meantime.

[dits]

So the generel consensus here is that Calzaghe will beat Hopkins? I'm thinking maybe by decision. Hopkins is old but he looks wily. Maybe involving lots of clinching to negate Calzaghe's handspeed.

I like Cotto but PBF is just too talented. Defense, technique, precision, and speed, he's just ahead of Cotto and pretty much any boxer alive. Putting money on Mayweather is pretty much a sure thing.

[EHK for Darwin]

I'd agree that the odds would have to be on Mayweather. But Cotto is also without much doubt the best of the 'other guys'. And by a fairly sizable margin for most of them. If Floyd beats him handily, I don't think there's really any doubt that Floyd is head and shoulders above the best of this era.

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='dits' post='1286023' date='Mar 24 2008, 10.48']So the generel consensus here is that Calzaghe will beat Hopkins? I'm thinking maybe by decision. Hopkins is old but he looks wily. Maybe involving lots of clinching to negate Calzaghe's handspeed.[/quote]

Yeh probably by decision. In his younger days Calzaghe was fairly heavy handed but his hands are fragile(broken a few times) so he dosen't throw many power shots. Think I read an interview with him where he said he hasn't thrown a shot with 100% of his power for years.

I hope Cotto-Mayweather happens as well. I do think Mayweather would win but its the one big test left out there for him imo.

[EHK for Darwin]

Most recent boxing thread and I thought we said we'd make it the default one. Should get a title change if we can. In either case, not a bad night of boxing. 4 fights for those who had the channels and all of them entertaining enough.

Got a little excited for the Cotto/Margarito clash. Watching them last night, they both seem to be hard, aggressive, body-pounding mean motherfuckers. I only half caught the Margarito (sp) match and both him and Cintron seemed to apply pressure early. But Margarito clearly got the better of the exchanges, landing flush with power and with increasing frequency. Eventually leading to a punishing knockout via body shot.

Cotto...was about what you'd expect. It was a casual schooling of an inferior fighter. I watched the first season of the Contender and I was a big fan of Gomez. Felt sorry for him out there for a while. But what fighter of his background and record ever gets an opportunity like that? He got to fight the best (almost) on a big stage. Cotto I think also felt sorry for him. Cotto was arrogant, cocky, and gave Gomez almost no respect whatsoever, treating it somewhat like the sparring session that it was. But I think you could see in that last round especially that he was taking it easy. I think he was afraid of seriously hurting Gomez. And Cotto really only seemed to open up for a round or two. He could have been much more devastating and everyone knew it. Good stoppage by the doctor.

On showtimes card we had a great first fight. (Chad Dawson/Glen Johnson)Probably the highlight of the night. Johnson was the harder hitting pressure fighter. He really did seem to be taking control and dishing out punishment by that 3rd or 4th round. But once Dawson switched up and tried to box he was able to avoid Johnson's combinations while tagging him with enough to win most of the mid-rounds. Some of the later rounds still remained quite good and it was a competitive battle throughout. But Dawson had the clear advantage on my card even if you gave some of those closer rounds to Johnson. The announcers started to annoy me when they kept calling it a controversial decision. The only ones who thought it was controversial was the crowd (home town favorite lost) and Johnson. I hope that after Johnson sees the fight he'll recant some of his 'screwjob' whining. He fought a good fight, but he lost and convincingly enough for there to be little doubt. Johnson's style is more visually appealing and I was actually cheering for him, but there was no way I could give him that fight even if I wanted to.

And Tarver/Woods. Not quite as exciting as the earlier fights, but still entertaining enough. Tarver landed in very accurate spurts as he typically does. But the spurts were also much more frequent than they have been in past fights and he won a comfortable and convincing decision. Woods almost didn't seem to realize he was in a boxing match for the first half the fight. Tarver was open for shots, but Woods just never seemed to take advantage. No pressure at all outside of a few later round exchanges. Really disappointing performance by the Brit. Though like most Brit boxers, he was gracious as ever after the fight. Good to see that.

[dits]

I only managed to watch Cotto-Gomez today. That was pretty much the outcome I expected when I heard about this match. Gomez was my favorite from The Contender Season 1 but he was clearly in a fight way over his head. Cotto was just several levels ahead in power, speed, technique and precision. Cotto dominated all rounds and I too noticed him easing up in the 5th as if he was afraid to inflict permanent damage to Gomez.

Didn't get to watch Margarito-Cintron. But happy to hear about Margarito-Cotto is going to happen in the future.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I caught all 4 fights last night[i] (even though I had to come in to work this morning = [b]dedication[/b])[/i]. It's always nice to get together with you'r buddies and watch the fights. So here we go!

First off, Cintron's footwork looked downright a mess. Everytime Margarito would sidestep Cintron completely and end up behind him while he was still doubled over. I'm not sure, but the only explanation for the sorry excuse for a fight that Cintron put up last night was that he was hurt bad early, maybe a minor rib injury. I can't count how many times Margarito had to hit him in the back of the head because Cintron was doubled over and wouldn't face him. No points should have been deducted imo, and they weren't. BTW the crowd seemed very apathetic considering the Mexico vs. Puerto Rico dynamic for the two main events. BTW does anyone here think that Margarito is in Cintron's head? Some might say that he quit early in this fight and was looking for a shot to go down on.

Cotto put on a clinic on Gomez. It almost seemed like he had stepped back and decided to show footwork and just prolong the bout and entertain us with his skills. He knocked Gomez down three times and he wasn't really even trying to. Great fight by Cotto. Gomez, otoh, joins a lis that includes Sakio Bika and Peter Manfredo, of Contender alums getting title shots that they probably weren't ready for. Well that's unfair bc Bika was.

The fight of the night happened on Showtime which I stayed up to watch re-broadcast in it's entirety. Shades of Castillo vs. Corrales here with both fighters standing toe-to-toe and slugging it out until the "championship rounds". For those who didn't see the post-fight interviews, Glen Johnson was livid with the decision. And considering that he's a top-ranked fighter who has lost numerous close decisions throughout his career, he's probably a bit jaded by now. But Dawson fought a warrior's battle there, as did Chad Dawson. But Dawson had a little too much footwork and landed far more cleaner blows though you can argue that Johnson had him rocked a time or two in the early to middle rounds. Was it me or did Johnson seem to have an almost slapping motion to his punches? At any rate this sets up a nice matchup between Tarver and Dawson sometime this summer.

Antonio Tarver beat Clinton Woods. That's pretty much all that I'll say about that one. It went 12 rounds but failed to keep my attention as Tarver grinded out a solid, but not very entertaining, decision. But after the fight he showed that he has a future commentating on HBO and hopefully replacing my arch-nemesis Larry Merchant. What a talent on the mic and he's rather well spoken. BTW, does his wife not remind you of [url="http://www.slamxhype.com/images/posts/stacy-dash-8.jpg"]Stacy Dash?[/url] What a lucky man!

Although he probably keeps her in Prada and Fendi, so she's getting what she's getting. Plus it's hard to believe that he's 39, bc he could pass easily for 29!

[lessthanluke]

Whats happened to Clinton Woods is all I can say. He barely threw a punch. This is the same man who beat Johnson who pushed Dawson close. The occasion looked like it got to him. Good display by Tarver though.

Cintron-Margarito. I just don't think Cintron wanted it enough. He saw that Margarito could take his shots and he just wanted out of there. Margarito must have one of the best chins in world boxing. Lets not forget that Cintron has knocked over over 90% of his opponents, yet he couldn't dent Margarito. Margarito-Cotto anyone?

Johnson-Dawson was a very entertaining fight with both fighters giving their all. I think Dawson won by 2-3 rounds.

Cotto took it easy on Gomez when he saw how easy it was. At one point Cotto hit his twice and Gomez dropped his hands instead of beheading him Cotto stepped back as if he didn't want to hurt him.

Oh and Horus Bika had his title fight before he went on the Contender.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='LessThanLuke' post='1312061' date='Apr 13 2008, 09.13']Oh and Horus Bika had his title fight before he went on the Contender.[/quote]
Yeah, I know, that's why I kind of backed off of that statement. Sometimes the facts tend to get confused in my head. :thumbsup:

[Mathis]

The light-heavyweight division looks to be in trouble. Hopkins, Tarver, Johnson, Calzaghe. All great fighters, all middle aged. Chad Dawson is supposed to be the outstanding young(ish) fighter but couldn't convince in a deserved victory over 40 year old Glen Johnson.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]The light-heavyweight division looks to be in trouble. Hopkins, Tarver, Johnson, Calzaghe. All great fighters, all middle aged. Chad Dawson is supposed to be the outstanding young(ish) fighter but couldn't convince in a deserved victory over 40 year old Glen Johnson.[/quote]

At the very least you can say that those are all credible, talented, and still relevant fighters. That they're all pushing (or have pushed) 40 means they won't be relevant for much longer, but each one of them has fought and won real fights recently. The division looks to be quite strong at the moment. But in about 2-3 years you're right, there will be almost nothing there.

[Mathis]

[quote name='L’éclaircissementHK' post='1312709' date='Apr 14 2008, 00.16']The division looks to be quite strong at the moment. But in about 2-3 years you're right, there will be almost nothing there.[/quote]

Thats my point. They're all near the end. I mean FFS Roy Jones is still kicking around there. Clinton Woods was a genuine modern day light heavyweight champion, yet could barely throw a punch against a 39 (I think) year old Tarver.

IMO Chad Dawson would get eaten alive by Hopkins, Calzaghe, and even 39 year old Tarver.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1312903' date='Apr 13 2008, 22.46']Thats my point. They're all near the end. I mean FFS Roy Jones is still kicking around there. Clinton Woods was a genuine modern day light heavyweight champion, yet could barely throw a punch against a 39 (I think) year old Tarver.

IMO Chad Dawson would get eaten alive by Hopkins, Calzaghe, and even 39 year old Tarver.[/quote]
I think that we'll get the chance to see about that Tarver prediction, but I have to agree on that one.

As for the state of the division, it wasn't that long ago that we were saying that it was Roy Jones and a bunch of nothing. How many people knew that Antonio Tarver was something before his trilogy with Roy Jones? And then Glen Johnson put his imprint on the division and suddenly we had life. 5 years ago this wasn't a glamour division outside of Jones. There are a few guys at lower weights that I can see moving up to give the division life. Not in the immediate future granted, but it's not like this division was something big before all these guys showed up on the scene. This type of things cyclical, and in the end fighters will congregate at the weight classes with the most big paydays. Hell Roy Jones seems to have created half the big names in the LHW div just by losing to people. I'm enjoying it while it lasts.

[Mathis]

[quote name='Horus - Spider Silva' post='1312927' date='Apr 14 2008, 05.24']As for the state of the division, it wasn't that long ago that we were saying that it was Roy Jones and a bunch of nothing. How many people knew that Antonio Tarver was something before his trilogy with Roy Jones? And then Glen Johnson put his imprint on the division and suddenly we had life. 5 years ago this wasn't a glamour division outside of Jones.[/quote]

I only got interested in boxing a few years ago and Light-heavyweight has been a good division in that time. Sad to see it's future look so bleak. But like you said its cyclical. And Welterweight is where its at ATM.

[dits]

I'm also a newish boxing fan. We don't have pay per views in my country, but since the resurgence in the interest in boxing the last few years, I've been able to watch some top quality matches for free. I was privileged enough to see Corrales-Castillo which was beyond awesome. On the other hand I never got to see the Maquez-Vasquez trilogy which I've been looking forward to.

Last couple of years my favorite division was Featherweight-Jr.Lightweight coz of the Pacquiao-Barrera-Morales-Marquez matches. These four have given me some fine matches to watch.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I have to agree with dits, since Top Rank and Goldenboy began working together coupled with other forces aligning to encourage great matchups, this has been a great couple of years to be a boxing fan.

[EHK for Darwin]

What does anyone think about this boxing conspiracy theory.

I read [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3329115"]this[/url] article at ESPN about a boxer in 1983 who has recently admitted in a documentary to removing padding from his gloves and soaking the tape on his hands in plaster of Paris. He ended up brutalizing an up and coming prospect, inflicting some permanent injuries that more or less ended the guys career. (the prospect ended up dying a year later in a car wreck)

But they weren't huge names and I'm not really talking about the story. But the comments about the story had alot of accusations against Tito Trinidad continually cheating in a similar fashion. Most notably Bernard Hopkin's people complained that Trinidad had his knuckles taped improperly and forced them to retape it before their fight, which Hopkins went on to win. Boxers William Joppy and David Reid also made similar accusations either before or after their fight and blame Trinidad's improper taping in part for their losses.

Conspiracy theorists point out that he lost to Hopkins once he was no longer allowed to use the cheat-taping (a fight that he was significantly favored to win), only won a single significant fight for the rest of his career, and was never the punishing power-puncher that he was before. Now this could be age, rust (he had a few interim 'retirements' between some matches), or the product of moving up weight classes. But what do you guys think? Was the secret to his monstrous left just a shitload of tape/cheating?

[Horus Ex Machina]

I don't know anybody who thought that Trinidad would beat Hopkins. He was a naturally smaller fighter. I blame most of his ineffectiveness later in his career was him venturing into a weightclass that he had no realistic future in.

As for the improper taping, don't the commission guys have to inspect and sign the tape job before major fights, especially promotions which are high-profile as a Hopkins-Trinidad fight. The last thing that a state commission wants on its hands is a potential death of a fighter because they allowed a fighter to tape thier hands with wet plaster or some such[i] (exaggeration here)[/i]. I'm sure that this is prevalent in the amateur ranks and the low-profile professional fights, but I can't see that a state-run commission would allow Trinidad to have gotten away with it in most of his major fights. Sounds like sour grapes on the part of Joppy and Reid. David Reid was never gonna make it far imo with that lazy eye of his anyway. Two punches and it would close.

[Analu]

So I just found out that Hopkins is listed at +220 for tomorrow's fight with Calzaghe, which to be honest, shocked me. Granted, I haven't followed boxing as closely as I have in the past, but at those odds, am seriously thinking of laying some money down. Hop's always down well against southpaws, has a good chin, knows every trick in the book and is as tough as they come. Sure he's getting up there in age, but I thought he looked pretty good against Winky and Tarver and as a good counterpuncher, will do well against Cal's barrage of punches. And I believe this is the latter's first time fighting in the United States, so who knows how the time difference, crowd support, etc. will affect him.

Also I want to watch this fight because I remember not being too impressed with what little I've seen of Calzaghe and thinking that Hopkins would get the better of him if they ever fought. I see it going to decision after 12 and Hop coming out on top (hey, that rhymed)

But as I've said, I'm not as up to date on boxing as I have been in the past. If anyone wants to enlighten me further before I lay down bets, I'd be happy to hear any input. If I end up betting on this, then I'll be skipping UFC 83 for this fight tomorrow. Any thoughts about this fight?