Tyrion and Shae vrs The Sailor's Wife and Clients

[Odie]

Tyrion first meets Shae in aGoT, when Bronn finds her for him before the battle with Roose Bolton's half of Robb's army. When he does, he tells her the following (paraphrased)

She is to remain faithful to him throughout the length of her service, sleeping with no other men.
She is to laugh at his jests, rub his legs after a long day, and perform other similar duties
He tells her that if he dies, she should weep for him.
He instructs Bronn to see her home if he dies.

I know there was more here, but the only copy I have "handy" is the audio book version out in my car. My point here is, the things he requests of Shae are tasks/feelings that a wife, not a whore, would do or have for a man (meaning, of course, in the context of Westeros, lets not turn this into a discussion of real-world feminism) Or, in the case of having his "sworn sword" seeing her home after his death, something a husband would expect to be done for his widow.

The Sailor's Wife marries her men, making a big show out of the wedding. But the "marriages" end with the rising sun (though, I suppose, if a man had enough coin he could continue as her husband until said coin ran out, but that's just speculation on my part)

Both relationships strive to create the illusion of marriage, and both know that the illusion will end at some point in the relatively near future.

Why would Tyrion and this random whore in Braavos have such similar taste in their hired sex partners? It's convoluted at best, but when I heard that bit read yesterday about Tyrion and Shae it sure made me go "That sure sounds an afwul lot like The Sailor's Wife and her marriages to her clients". She is wanting the same thing as Tyrion, just on the opposite side of the sexual coin.

This parallel, more than any other textual evidence, makes me believe that The Sailor's Wife is Tysha.

ETA: For the record, this isn't meant to be a profound finding or anything, just something that hit me upside the head that I'd never thought about before.

[Prince Daeron the Drunkard]

I don't know. Hard for me to imagine that after being raped by Tywin's entire garrison, to then become a whore. Possible, maybe not probable.

[Lady Blackfish]

[quote]Hard for me to imagine that after being raped by Tywin's entire garrison, to then become a whore. Possible, maybe not probable.[/quote]
Maybe there wouldn't be much else for Tysha to be, as her choices as a common woman would be really limited. I think money would be the key factor for people becoming prostitutes, not sexual enjoyment. If she had to, then it doesn't really matter if she was traumatized, she still has to eat.

[Prince Daeron the Drunkard]

Yes but in last Cat of the Canals chapter, the Sailor's wife is mentioned as her true husband lost at sea. I think she may be from Bravos, not Westeros.

[Odie]

See, when I hear that, I hear a white lie. It's not that her love was lost at sea, SHE lost HIM when she was shipped over to the Free Cities by Tywin. Plus it's a story few people will question, especially in Braavos which is tied to the sea.

[Sarella]

AFFC 35: Cat of the Canals
[i]They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."[/i]

I'm with you Odie. Yna is saying that Tysha's l[i]ove[/i] (i.e. the emotion) is dead, not the [i]man she loves[/i]. She prays that Tyrion never finds Tysha because Tysha is bereft of love. Her love is a corpse.

P.S. Does anyone have the actual book to check that last line? I cut and paste the quote from my handy document of relevant quotes and am wondering if "it will be a corpse" is a typo and it is actually "it will be [b]as[/b] a corpse.", which would ruin my argument.

Anyway, once the "lost at sea" issue is resolved, everything points to Sailor's Wife=Tysha. Where do whores go? A whorehouse in Braavos.

[Lady Blackfish]

It is "If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse."

[Sarella]

Well that confirms it then. The subject of the sentence is "her love" not "her husband". If Yna meant the husband would be a corpse, she would have said...

"If he ever should come back to her, it will be [b]as[/b] a corpse."

OR

"If he ever should come back to her, [b]he[/b] will be a corpse."

[AHackeySackOfIceAndFire]

well, there's definitely some wiggle room, but I think the ambiguity underlines that the line is a mask, a show, just as everything else about the Sailor's Wife. i actually assumed it was Tysha simply because after finding out what Tywin really did to her i was reading closely for anyone who seemed to be a lost soul selling her body.

I don't think they will, or should, ever be reunited. Some things should stay buried.

[Dieb]

My god, the "it will come back a corpse" is pretty huge. Ok, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. It could easily be a typo, although I just check my version of AFFC and it says the same thing. And perhaps Yanna doesn't consider dead people as people, and that they should be treated as things grammatically.

Still, this DOES provide a rejoiner to those who say the Sailor's Wife cannot be Tysha due to the whole corpse thing.

[A wilding]

[quote name='Prince Daeron the Drunkard' post='1346228' date='May 7 2008, 21.53']I don't know. Hard for me to imagine that after being raped by Tywin's entire garrison, to then become a whore. Possible, maybe not probable.[/quote]
Footnote: Actually in RL a very large percentage of them were abused (read raped or something close to it) as children or as teenagers. Most of them are pushed into whoredom by circumstances or outright forced. Relatively few freely choose it as a profession, and they tend to be at the top end of the market, not working in a cheap brothel for sailors.

[Ran]

The Sailor's Wife isn't bereft of love. She goes praying to gods hoping her husband comes back. What is that if not an act of love?

It's either a typo or it's a sign of Yna's shaky grasp of whatever language is being spoken at that moment (Braavosi, I suppose); she's not native, after all.

Regardless, I would read the corpse remark meaning, if the Sailor's Wife is indeed Tysha, that the man she loved is indeed dead. Tyrion Lannister is older and bears physical and psychic wounds when he wasn't the innocent dwarf-youth who married the innocent crofter's daughter. He's not the same man, she's not the same woman. The boy she married is dead.

I also think that it wasn't a lie (again, if it's Tysha) as the crofter's daughter not being understood rightly when she had little or no Braavosi, and she's just settled into letting people spin it as her husband being a sailor lost at sea, etc.

Does anyone really think that Tyrion and Tysha could just get back together, happily ever after, etc.? I am dubious.

[Odie]

[quote name='Ran' post='1347005' date='May 8 2008, 07.58']Does anyone really think that Tyrion and Tysha could just get back together, happily ever after, etc.? I am dubious.[/quote]
Happily ever after? :lol: No, I certainly don't think so. But I do think they will cross paths at some point.

[Ran]

Also, BTW, has anyone considered the implications of her rather obscene marriage farce? It seems to me it indicates some deep psychological damage. Which, given what she went through, makes sense -- but it also seems to me that it'd be one factor in why (if their paths crossed) it could not in fact be happily ever after for them.

[youper]

All right I am convinced. The line about the corpse is crucial. I am in line with the Sailor's wife = Tysha. Poor Tysha, it is one of the saddest stories in the whole series.

I agree that they will meet, and Tyrion could be the one who betrays Danny for love. But it will be bitter sweet.

[alguien]

I really like this theory. Its terrible and tragic but also poetic.

The only evidence against it is the husband's supposed death at sea and Yna's foretelling.

Of course, that could be Arya's misunderstanding of Braavosi or Yna's.

I highly doubt that Tysha and Tyrion will get back together, nor do I think it would be a good idea.

But it would be fascinating if they should meet again.

[Bellis]

I know this has come up before - but she named her kid Lanna? Really? See, that convinces me.

[Ran]

Yep, that's her daughter's name.

The only other option that springs to mind is that Gerion Lannister was a naughty fellow, married her, got a child on her, abandoned her, and so on and so forth.

[tzanth]

[quote name='youper' post='1347604' date='May 8 2008, 09.20']I agree that they will meet, and Tyrion could be the one who betrays Danny for love. But it will be bitter sweet.[/quote]

Huh. I hadn't heard this one before. I sorta like it. Tyrion abandons Dannys side for a broken relationship filled with self loathing and doubt... its something I could see him doing.

[Ned Sand]

[quote name='Ran' post='1347005' date='May 8 2008, 08.58']Tyrion Lannister is older and bears physical and psychic wounds when he wasn't the innocent dwarf-youth who married the innocent crofter's daughter. He's not the same man, she's not the same woman. The boy she married is dead. . . . Does anyone really think that Tyrion and Tysha could just get back together, happily ever after, etc.? I am dubious.[/quote]You're likely dead on about the problems, but Tyrion would try anyway, wouldn't he? Even after he realizes that all possibility of a happy ever after is gone?

He has massive guilt motivating him. I can't see him leaving her or giving up on her as long as she lives.

Her side of the equation is much different, of course. Tysha was betrayed horribly by him and, if the the Sailor's Wife is her, she has been suffering terribly from the life it put her in for all these years.