mad men

[Blaine]

It takes a professional liar. And Don is one of the best on Madison Ave.

I think what's going with Don and Betty is that Betty is just now realizing that. She digs through his clothes, looking for a smoking infidelity gun, but what she finds are cocktail napkins without women's phone numbers or lipstick. Instead she finds Don's ideas. His pitches. The gears that turn in his head to get what he wants out of people. She even says something to that effect, that "his job is to persuade people" - therefore she can't believe anything he says.

Of course this realization isn't fun. But I don't think it's heading toward the obvious divorce scenario. I think it's heading to more of a power shift and an understanding between the two of them. Betty certainly isn't without her faults. She's consistently childish and often cruel to her own children (Sally's weight and Bobby's behavior). Plus, she's the kind of person that breaks chairs, shoots pigeons and runs around the house for two days in a party dress digging through her husband's things.

This episode was good, but I'd agree that the last few have been a little high on the melodrama. Some of it does seem a bit soap opera-ish than usual, but even then, there's some great moments. I'm somewhat bored with the Peggy/Father Gil story. But the previews next week make it look like it's going somewhere interesting.

The Joan story was a perfect and self-contained little arc. Similar to the one with Duck a few weeks back. Joan has consistently derided Peggy for wanting to be one of the boys. Yet, this week she was given something to do and she was good at it. Great at it, actually.

And then it struck midnight and the coach turned into a pumpkin. I don't think Sterling or Crane intentionally set out to screw her over and give the job to someone else. I think they honestly thought two things.

1. The job was a success. Not that Joan was so great at it. It was a position that obviously needs to be filled.
2. Joan wouldn't want that job. She's the queen of the receptionists and she runs that side of the office with an iron fist. She's never acted like she wanted to be anything more. I think it never crossed their mind that she would want to do the TV job full time.

And sadly enough, Joan might be OK with that. Or with becoming a trophy wife in general. But watching that dream crumble on her face involved some excellent acting by Christina Hendricks.

[Rhom]

Didn't get a chance to watch the show until this morning. I'm completely and totally done with the show! F the writers of this show and the horse they came in on! [i]Peggy's Sister:[/i] "Did you hear what the chiropractor said?" [i]Peggy:[/i] "They're not doctors." F you Peggy Olson! Go running back to Jimmy Olson or whoever gave you that ridiculous name!!!!!! :tantrum:

Alright so that's a little tongue in cheek there... and I do realize that it was entirely in keeping with the time period. Doesn't mean I have to like it!

That said, some stellar stuff in this episode. Everyone else here has pretty much touched on the stuff I liked. I'm interested to see where things play out.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Blaine23' post='1520014' date='Sep 16 2008, 11.31']Of course this realization isn't fun. But I don't think it's heading toward the obvious divorce scenario. I think it's heading to more of a power shift and an understanding between the two of them.[/quote]

I don't know that it's going to end up in divorce, but I wonder if Betty would really be satisifed with a different power dynamic. After all, that seemed to be what she got out of her backhanded confrontation in "The Wheel", with Don agreeing not to disappear, etc., and it didn't stop the affairs. In the initial confrontation, Betty says to Don, "You can't help yourself," and I don't think that's a loose accusation on her part. She's not only angry but also a little proud at knowing that about him. And if she doesn't think that he _can_ stop sleeping around, then I'm not sure that a different power dynamic is going to make her feel better. Maybe she decides to live with his tomcatting, but that seems less likely than a divorce.

My immediate prediction is over the next few episodes, and maybe for the rest of the season, Don and Betty will be seperated in fact if not officially. He might come back to the house to sleep at night after a while, but I bet that they'll end up finding excuses to avoid each other--Betty going to Cape May alone, Don leaping on the chance to travel for work, etc.--with the marriage more of a fiction than ever. Maybe they end up agreeing to a divorce at the end of the season, maybe they end up reconciling, and maybe that becomes the new status quo until season three, but for a while things are going to be all quiet in Ossining.

[quote]This episode was good, but I'd agree that the last few have been a little high on the melodrama. Some of it does seem a bit soap opera-ish than usual, but even then, there's some great moments. I'm somewhat bored with the Peggy/Father Gil story. But the previews next week make it look like it's going somewhere interesting.[/quote]

It took me a second to figure out what you meant by that, and I have to say, I wonder if there's a link there. I don't see how Peggy would come to the conclusion that Father Gill was informed by Pete, who isn't Catholic, doesn't live in Brooklyn, and had never seen Father Gill before this episode. It seems more likely that Peggy finally gets wind of the rumors floating around courtesy of her unusual sabbatical.

[Rhom]

Speaking of divorce on the show... we havn't seen the neighbor divorcee with the kid Betty confided in all season. Also, we're now about 8 episodes in and we still don't know who Don sent that book to in the first episode.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='rhombencephalon' post='1520411' date='Sep 16 2008, 15.00']Speaking of divorce on the show... we havn't seen the neighbor divorcee with the kid Betty confided in all season. Also, we're now about 8 episodes in and we still don't know who Don sent that book to in the first episode.[/quote]

SPOILER: Mad Men

Helen Bishop will be back in a few weeks; Darby Stanchfield has a credit up on IMDb for episode 10, "The Inheritance."

Also, I think the revelation of who exactly recieved the book is due to be resolved next episode. The official summary mentions that "an old friend is the beneficiary of Don's loyalty". Interestingly, "Don meets up with an old friend" in episode twelve ("The Mountain King") as well, and I think it's likely to assume that these are the same person. My theory--which I'm stealing from MM fan extraordinaire Deborah Lipp--is that the old friend is the blonde we saw in the flashback in "The Gold Violin."

[dornish prince]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1519489' date='Sep 16 2008, 00.27']Don's assuredness was admirable in the first season, but his ability to fake assuredness without the slightest hint of remorse or hesitation (the way he lies to Betty) is revolting, it takes a special kind of soullessness to lie to someone in that way.[/quote]

i feel the exact opposite. that is one of the main reasons why i love don draper.

[Rhom]

On a completely unrelated note... I "Became a fan of Mad Men" on my Facebook page a while back. Recently, I've noticed the random ads along the side of the page have included some for men's suits and the tag line says "Dress like Don Draper." Kind of a neat hook.

Far better than the ones that make me feel oh so good about myself by saying "30 and still single?" :cry:

[Blaine]

[quote name='Sarah L. Palin' post='1520351' date='Sep 16 2008, 13.27']My immediate prediction is over the next few episodes, and maybe for the rest of the season, Don and Betty will be seperated in fact if not officially. He might come back to the house to sleep at night after a while, but I bet that they'll end up finding excuses to avoid each other--Betty going to Cape May alone, Don leaping on the chance to travel for work, etc.--with the marriage more of a fiction than ever. Maybe they end up agreeing to a divorce at the end of the season, maybe they end up reconciling, and maybe that becomes the new status quo until season three, but for a while things are going to be all quiet in Ossining.[/quote]
That's sort of where I was going with the "understanding between the two of them" idea. Separate beds, separate lives - but publicly together. Not all that uncommon in that era. And I think Betty's got some wild oats to sow as well. I don't see a return to where we were at the beginning of the season either. Obviously it didn't work.

I see divorce as being a last alternative for Betty and Don. She doesn't want to end up like Helen and he doesn't want to end up like Duck. It's still too much of a public stigma and a cross neither one of them would want to bear.

[quote]It took me a second to figure out what you meant by that, and I have to say, I wonder if there's a link there. I don't see how Peggy would come to the conclusion that Father Gill was informed by Pete, who isn't Catholic, doesn't live in Brooklyn, and had never seen Father Gill before this episode. It seems more likely that Peggy finally gets wind of the rumors floating around courtesy of her unusual sabbatical.[/quote]

I don't think that Pete has any direct Father Gil connection, but I think the storyline is pushing Peggy into dealing with the child. And that probably will mean dealing with Pete at some point. To me, that's more interesting than Peggy and Gil's current whatever relationship over sermon topics and dance posters.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Blaine23' post='1520637' date='Sep 16 2008, 16.38']I see divorce as being a last alternative for Betty and Don. She doesn't want to end up like Helen and he doesn't want to end up like Duck. It's still too much of a public stigma and a cross neither one of them would want to bear.[/quote]

That makes a lot of sense to me. The rules of the game for the Drapers were set early in season one--one of the important things about "Marriage to Figaro"--and society hasn't come around on divorce yet. Nelson Rockefeller's divorce in 1962 would essentially end his national political aspirations.

[dornish prince]

[quote name='rhombencephalon' post='1520539' date='Sep 16 2008, 15.58']On a completely unrelated note... I "Became a fan of Mad Men" on my Facebook page a while back. Recently, I've noticed the random ads along the side of the page have included some for men's suits and the tag line says "Dress like Don Draper." Kind of a neat hook.

Far better than the ones that make me feel oh so good about myself by saying "30 and still single?" :cry:[/quote]


don't sell yourself short, RBC ;)


<------would love to dress like don draper.

[Rhom]

[quote name='dornish prince' post='1520906' date='Sep 16 2008, 19.03']<------would love to dress like don draper.[/quote]

:agree:

I was watching the show with someone the other day and mentioned that I really wish I could pull off the overcoat and fedora look.

[EHK for Darwin]

Tivoed about 8-10 of these episodes. Just now starting to watch them. Curious about one thing, the chick trying to make it with the big boys...who knocked her up? Or do we know? (I've clearly missed most of the first season)

Otherwise, pretty good show. I'll have more comments when I've actually caught up.

[Rhom]

[quote name='EHK for Obama' post='1522009' date='Sep 17 2008, 16.06']Tivoed about 8-10 of these episodes. Just now starting to watch them. Curious about one thing, the chick trying to make it with the big boys...who knocked her up? Or do we know? (I've clearly missed most of the first season)

Otherwise, pretty good show. I'll have more comments when I've actually caught up.[/quote]

SPOILER: mad men season one

Pete showed up drunk on Peggy's doorstep the night before his wedding in the first or second episode. They later hooked up again on the couch in his office several episodes later.

I picked up Season One on DVD based on rec's from this board a couple weeks before S2 started. You could probably pick up a lot of what you missed just by searching for the S1 thread here.

[Tears of Lys]

[quote name='Tears of Lys' post='1518475' date='Sep 15 2008, 11.04']What the hell was up with Betty when she was smashing up the chair? I phased out for a moment and lost something there. :dunce:[/quote]

The chair was wobbly, so she destroyed it rather than have it ruin her perfect dinner party. (Saw it in a rerun.)

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Somebody with sharp ears and a head for the Stooges [url="http://maulofamerica.blogspot.com/2008/09/mad-women.html"]discovers something neat[/url] about "A Night To Remember":

[quote]The discovery of a wobbly dining room chair seems to be Betty's tipping point as she calmly proceeds to smash it on the oriental rug. This occurs in full view of the children who are watching television from another room. While the actual television is out of camera range, you can hear that it’s tuned to a Three Stooges short with Shemp (I’m a bit of a connoisseur). My first reaction was to wonder what more these poor kids would have to endure? It’s bad enough to have a basket case for a mom. But the Stooges without Curly? Come on!

To my surprise, however, upon a closer listening, I heard a few of Curly’s distinctive “nyuk, nyuk, nyuks” thrown into the mix. Since, Curly and Shemp never appeared together onscreen(okay, they did once in "Hold that Lion," but Curly only made a cameo and didn’t have any lines), it’s clear that the director didn’t just drop in a sound clip from one Stooge outing for atmosphere. They actually constructed a track from a number of different shorts that would be recognizable as The Three Stooges BUT would also add meaning to Betty’s actions.

In this case, the key lines came from a 1947 Stooge short, “Brideless Groom.” The scene they choose was of Shemp getting the tar kicked out of him by a blond hottie, who, the entire time she’s putting the boots to him, professes to be a helpless female. That scene ends with Shemp getting violently tossed through the front door and out of the “helpless” woman’s home (see clip below). Given the Mad Men’s attention to details of this sort, I can’t imagine it to be a mere coincidence.[/quote]

[Commodore]

Jimmy Barret is/was not a real celebrity, yes? I can't find anything about him on the web. Is the character modeled after someone?

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1524823' date='Sep 19 2008, 15.23']Jimmy Barret is/was not a real celebrity, yes? I can't find anything about him on the web. Is the character modeled after someone?[/quote]

The scuttlebutt is Don Rickles, but I don't know that Matt Weiner & co. have ever said anything on the subject.

[Rockroi]

Rickles?

I'm not saying its wrong, but during that period, I thought Rickles was far bigger in Vegas and doing the shows out there. He had virtually no commercial appeal with New York, etc. It also does not seem like his MO - yeah, he was perfect for making fun of everyone, but MOST people who knew Rickles did not think he was mean spirited about it (Barrett is). Also, Rickels' wife never did anything to promote her husband's career the way Barrett's has.

I think he is an amalgom of a bunch of comedians during the time period; some more "flash in the pan" than others. Again, its possible that his "insult" style is like Rickles, but I sincerely doubt Rickles (even at his most outrageous) would say stuff like that.

[Tears of Lys]

[quote name='Sarah L. Palin' post='1524498' date='Sep 19 2008, 11.29']Somebody with sharp ears and a head for the Stooges [url="http://maulofamerica.blogspot.com/2008/09/mad-women.html"]discovers something neat[/url] about "A Night To Remember":[/quote]

I [i]thought[/i] I heard the Stooges in the background. What a catch! And very apt too. Goes to show you that there's wheels within wheels in this series. (and I love the Stooges reference. I'm a die-hard fan. Whoo-whoo-whooo-whooo, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!)



Re: Jimmy Barret/Don Rickles - Rickles occurred to me too when I first saw the Jimmy character, but too many things don't add up. I think Rockroi's right.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Well, I don't know much--really, anything--about Rickles, but that's what people had been saying. I tend to agree that Jimmy's more of a type than a specific person. Anybody who has been to enough open mikes (a friend of mine is an aspiring comedian, so I've been to a few) will meet a number of guys like Jimmy Barrett there. If anything, he's relaxed fit compared to some of the guys that I've met.