Lady Blackfish Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Don't forget when Sansa drowned her best friend in a well for squeeing over her hot brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is Known Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I know some people like to blame Ramsay Bolton for this but I have a theory that Sansa also crept into the Dreadfort and ate Lady Hornwoods fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thupple Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 How about when she stripped herself practically naked and had herself beaten by the Kingsguard? Or when she had her father's head cut off? That was the worst of the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_homeless_harpy Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 In fact, Sansa is the Great Other incarnated and the ultimate Faceless Man. She also liked tormenting her own fiance and then, as an UnCat, hunted all those little innocent Freys. In fact it was her who organized the Red Wedding and killed poor Robb. I am a big fan of her. Sheer madness. :lol: :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I can't get over her attempt to start a war between Dorne and the Lannisters after almost killing poor Myrcella. It's pretty bad when one of your claims to fame as a bad motherfucker is to fail at killing a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Sansa was the one who shoved this dead little kitten in Joffrey's hands when Robert passed by. Also, she was always looking for knights and glittery things, as her motto indicates: "[i]where is the gold, where is lord Beric, how many knight does he have with him, are there gems in the village, gold, silver[/i]..." Also, it was her who killed Lady, what do you know, the beast dared eat one of her lemon cakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Sand Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 [quote]Sansa not reflecting her role in the deaths of Lady and Ned can probably be explained as a defense mechanism, at least to some degree. It would've been very hard to bear for a young girl to think her own actions played a role in these deaths. Tyrion said in AGoT that: "Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it", and the same applies to young girls.[/quote] But she never reflects on Lysa's death, either. Not once. It never even occurs to her that she herself could be in danger, so she goes on allowing Petyr to use her for his own ends. I don't see that changing any time soon, even if Martin fast-forwards 5 years. She'll be the same silly little bird she was in the first book. Sansa should be haunted by her role in Ned's death. An 11 year old is perfectly capable of understanding the consequences of their actions, especially when the result is that horrible. In reality, she'd probably need therapy for the rest of her life. Sansa is a weak, selfish, snobby brat. She never thinks of Arya after the Lannisters throw Ned in the dungeon. Every fight she has with Arya, it's always Arya's fault, never hers. Nothing is ever her fault. Now, sisters do that, but Ned should have put a stop to it instead of indulging her. [quote]In fact, even her judgement about still wanting to marry Joffrey after she had witnessed his behaviour with Mycah and Arya has to be questioned.[/quote] I agree. She chose her own selfish ends, even when Mycah was murdered. But because he was merely a butcher's boy, and she wanted Joff to like her, she lied, no matter how badly it hurt her own sister. She also makes a comment about her best friend Jeyne Poole. Jeyne has a huge crush on Beric Dondarrion, and Sansa thinks that Jeyne is [i]only[/i] a steward's daughter so Beric would never look at her. Catelyn would be so proud. I think it's poetic justice that she's now the one who's looked down on as a bastard. If nothing else, it'll teach her humility, and that it's not the station you're born in that makes you great. It's what you do with what you're given. [quote]Of course, Sansa never intended the deaths of Lady, Mycah and Ned and probably couldn't even foresee such dire consequences. So the actual blame has to lie with Joffrey, Robert and Cersei in Lady's case, with Joffrey, Cersei and Sandor in Mycah's case and with Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger and Slynt in Ned's case, and not with Sansa.[/quote] I disagree. She is old enough, even at 11 and most definitely by 12, to take responsibility for her actions. We send children to jail at 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 [quote]I disagree. She is old enough, even at 11 and most definitely by 12, to take responsibility for her actions. We send children to jail at 10.[/quote]Especially for sewing their brother's dog's head onto their torso after they've been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Sand Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 [quote name='Kalbear' post='1475602' date='Aug 11 2008, 15.57']Especially for sewing their brother's dog's head onto their torso after they've been killed.[/quote] Give her some time, she might end up that bad. :) She stuck Sandor's face to the fire, after all, and he's the love of her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 [quote name='Nymeria Sand' post='1475578' date='Aug 11 2008, 21.50'].I disagree. She is old enough, even at 11 and most definitely by 12, to take responsibility for her actions. We send children to jail at 10. [...]I think it's poetic justice that she's now the one who's looked down on as a bastard[/quote]That's were you see her devilish cunning, hiding in plain sight like that, yet manipulating Westeros into war, warging into Dany's dragon and making them eat children, coordinating attacks on the Wall, pushing her aunt out of the moon door, poisoning her cousin, seducing the lord protector, hanging Brienne, leading the Saltpan raid (who did you think was under the hound's helm?) or replacing the previous girl acting as her sister by a new one. Soon she'll be invincible, and if she killed Lady, that's because she is a cat person anyway, cats are better to pet while you gloat evilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 We also shouldn't forget Sansa beheaded a peasant girl with her two-handed sword for resisting rape. Even more outrageous, she tried to rape Brienne, and when Brienne bit her ear off Sansa made her fight a bear with a training sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Loyalist Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 And she enslaved thousands of people and made then fight in pits, and when Dany threated her operation she nailed children to fence posts. She killed the High Septon, just because he might find out she was fucking Lancel, and, worst of all, abducted both Lyanna and Tyrion, starting the two massive wars due to selfish emotion, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 [quote name='Nymeria Sand' post='1475578' date='Aug 11 2008, 20.50']I agree. She chose her own selfish ends, even when Mycah was murdered. But because he was merely a butcher's boy, and she wanted Joff to like her, she lied, no matter how badly it hurt her own sister.[/quote] Have to agree. Having been psychically informed by her bit on the side Sandor (see she can't even manage to be faithful to Joffrey) that he had carried out her orders to murder Mycah, she goes ahead and coldly spins her cunning lies to Robert as to how Joffrey was entirely blameless and it was all Arya's fault. Knowing full well that the consequences would include Lady's death. Unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is Known Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 In her role as Head of the faceless men Sansa administered the poison that blinded her own sister!!! How heartless is that. Also, she chopped off Rorge's nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nya across the narrow sea Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 oh my god, how has NO ONE mentioned the fact that Sansa pulled poor Lollys down into the mob, and warged into several dozen men in order to rape her over and over again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Nymeria Sand, [quote]But she never reflects on Lysa's death, either. Not once. It never even occurs to her that she herself could be in danger, so she goes on allowing Petyr to use her for his own ends. I don't see that changing any time soon, even if Martin fast-forwards 5 years. She'll be the same silly little bird she was in the first book.[/quote] Sansa actually reflects upon Lysa's death. She reflects that she would be dead if not for Littlefinger. It's not so unreasonable that Sansa doesn't feel threatened by Littlefinger. He is her protector. He has saved her from Joff and Cersei. He has saved her from Lysa. She doesn't know of his role in Ned's death either. I think it's safe to say that Sansa has become less naive too. Note for instance how she is able to see through Littlefinger's scheme with Lyn Corbray. Littlefinger had deceived great and experienced lords and ladies there but Sansa could see through his plot. [quote]Sansa should be haunted by her role in Ned's death. An 11 year old is perfectly capable of understanding the consequences of their actions, especially when the result is that horrible. In reality, she'd probably need therapy for the rest of her life.[/quote] Which is why it's smart of her to displace her role in Ned's death. I think it would be wrong to take Sansa's limited reflections about Ned and Arya as mere unconcern in any case. Let her be confronted with her role in their fates by somebody and I wouldn't be surprised if she would have a break-down. This doesn't make her weak by the way. In fact, Sansa has shown both courage and resilience. If not for Sandor standing in her way, she might even have sacrificed her life to kill Joffrey. [quote]I disagree. She is old enough, even at 11 and most definitely by 12, to take responsibility for her actions. We send children to jail at 10.[/quote] I agree that Sansa should eventually take responsibility for her actions. But her actions didn't include the killing of Lady, Mycah and Ned. The blame for these deaths lies with the people I mentioned who actually had a hand in these deaths. Sansa's actions were merely a lie and disobedience to her father, but without to intend or to have been able to foresee their results. What do you suggest is an appropriate punishment for a child of 11 telling a lie and disobeying her father? Have you ever lied or disobeyed your father for reasons which seemed good to you at the time? By the way, not every country thinks it's a good idea to jail 10 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kettleblack Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 sansa's only the worst if you dont count her mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It is Known Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 My copy of A Game of Thrones is on loan at the moment so I cant check these points... but just how important was Sansa's role in the events following Roberts death? Sansa never knew that her Father had tried to buy the Goldcloaks through Littlefinger, so surely the fact that they turned on him in favour of the Lannisters tells you all you need to know about this event. (ie: Littlefingers duplicity was more important than Sansa's squealing). All she told Cersei (indeed all she knew) was that her father was planning to evacuate herself and her sister, to a certain ship at a certain time. Eddard Stark surrendered the intiative when he challenged Cersei in the Godswood and refused Renly's offer to help seize the heirs to the crown. Cersei just likes to brag that Eddard Stark was betrayed by his own daughter who was "Lovesick for Joffery", but in reality (or Fictionality rather) Sansa's information wasn't that important to the Lannister coup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olenna Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 There is no reason why Sansa should feel guilt over her role in Ned's death, except in the "Oh, that was dumb of me in hindsight" sense. She had no idea that the information she gave would be used against him. In that situation she was guilty only of stupidity. Anyway, didn't she atone for it by saving Dontos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raff the Sweetling Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 [quote name='Olenna' post='1476115' date='Aug 11 2008, 22.34']Anyway, didn't she atone for it by saving Dontos?[/quote] I suppose you could say one fool for another pretty much weighs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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