Daniel Abraham

[Foreverlad]

Well, read it all. Comments:

2) I was not thrilled with the overall direction the books took in the end. The whole magic dying out of the world thing is just being done to death these days, no?

3) Some heroics in 4 volumes of a fantasy series is not too much to expect. Not all the time and not from all protagonists, but come on...

4) Four books and only about 6 andat mentioned by name.

That's 1.5 andat per book. Could have been more.

5) Other than that- mature, competent writing and an ending of sorts. These days, that's practicaly a stellar triumph!!!

2) I don't know, I rarely see the magic dying thing, and when I do, it tends to be more evolutionary/natural than a progressive act sanctioned by the good guys.

3) The story excelled at building suspense and spreading the shadow of Many a Bad Thing. This nation survived (...stagnated) due to their reliance on andat. They had no major militia, they didn't run around wielding swords, etc. Their andats were their defense, a nuke to be dropped should any other nation challenge them. All but one of the major players had any real military experience, and he was the antagonist in book 3. There were plenty of heroics throughout the series, but most weren't of the sword and sorcery variety... which was a MAJOR plus in my book.

4) Couldn't tell you how many were mentioned, specifically, but I was quite content with the limited details. Daniel wasn't world building for the sake of putting out an encylopedia of the series down the road. If the andat didn't play a role or help explain a specific point, it was an extraneous detail worth pruning. Few appearances and a general mystique about the andat help sell the idea they're difficult to bind and add a greater sense of weight to their existence.

5) Agreed.

[red snow]

About 100 pages in and enjoying it so far. I must fall into the positive camp with regard to the poses. My only criticism is that I usually try and imagine what said pose would be. Does anyone know if Daniel actually knows what the poses are? Or did he cruelly leave it to our imaginations? Sounds like it would be a fun thing to see him do at conferences - maybe the pose for acceptance is the tilting an imaginary beer down his throat :)

[williamjm]

About 100 pages in and enjoying it so far. I must fall into the positive camp with regard to the poses. My only criticism is that I usually try and imagine what said pose would be. Does anyone know if Daniel actually knows what the poses are? Or did he cruelly leave it to our imaginations? Sounds like it would be a fun thing to see him do at conferences - maybe the pose for acceptance is the tilting an imaginary beer down his throat :)

I get the impression the poses are quite subtle, most of the foreigners we see in the books seem to struggle with them unless they've been living in the cities for years. Therefore I didn't think that they'd be particularly unusual-looking, but I guess we don't know.

I finished reading The Price of Spring a few days ago. I liked the series a lot, and particularly liked the last book - the first couple of books were good but I found the story more compelling once the stakes were raised in the last couple of books. I thought the characterisation was excellent throughout and even though the characters frequently ended up doing what might be considered the wrong thing, it was almost always believable from that character's perspective, this includes the story's villains. Another thing I liked about the characterisation was how it developed over the decades the story covered - Otah and Maati both start off with the arrogance of youth convinced they're doing the right thing, in the middle books they've become less sure of themselves and at times more hesistant to act but then in the final book they've become fairly set in their ways and fairly stubborn that they know exactly what has to be done.

[AverageGuy]

Does anyone know if Daniel actually knows what the poses are? Or did he cruelly leave it to our imaginations?

I'm pretty sure he left it to our imaginations. In my imagination, it's a combination of bowing and simple hand gestures. I've heard that in some Asian cultures, you bow to different degrees for an equal, an inferior, a superior, and it can get more complicated, I figure this is just a slight extension of that.

[red snow]

It seems like most of them are hand based as they seem to be able to use them sitting down and not so much when they are carrying things. It's not that far fetched and i tend to stick similar versions to "poses" we use eg for uncertainty a shrug and upturned hands. We actually do it a lot already, it just hasn't become so formal in the language.

[The Drill]

My copy of the first of The Long Price Quartet arrived today. Seems really intriguing. And that's good, considering all the books in the series are out now (or almost out.)

[The Evil Hat]

They're all out; I read Price of Spring a few month's back (after winning it from Pat in my first ever giveaway :smoking: )

[Gigei]

I don't see the poses being that subtle. From the text, it is also not as easy as a hand wave. Some thoughts:

- As they are a major part of communication, it needs to be understood and recognized easily. A tiny twitch of the eye, for example, is too fast and small a movement to be easily seen, especially if more than one person is talking. I mean where would you look if there were 10 people in a meeting and the poses were simple facial expressions?

- Broad gestures would be needed. Hand waves, bows, things of that sort that are easily noticed are needed and that will catch attention when talking in a group.

- Alternatively, although this is not mentioned or hinted in the text, I imagine they could all be geniuses in recognizing and controlling microexpressions or a fantasy counterpart of it. This would explain why children find it so hard to do the poses (remember the beginning where our hero is in school) and why foreigners can barely function in the language. However, "poses" is not how I would describe microexpressions.

[The Evil Hat]

2) I was not thrilled with the overall direction the books took in the end. The whole magic dying out of the world thing is just being done to death these days, no?

Missed the boat on this one a bit, but I guess that later's better than never?

First, I don't think it really is all that common. It's a standard place for a book to begin, yes, but it's almost imediately followed by magic returning to the world during the novel/series's course (Wheel of Time, aSoIaF, Elantris, etc). More importantly, magic is generally the woundrous element of the world. It represents a golden age, and it's absence almost always leaves the world in some sort of dark age until its return. In Lomg Price, though, magic is the cause of the stagnation, and it's decline is a triumph, not a tragedy; the ending of magic leaves the people to develop freely.

[Foreverlad]

There had been a thread awhile back talking about themes and tropes in SFF. In general, protagonists fight to maintain the status quo, or to return to a more traditional state. Heroes quest to return magic to the world, or vanquish the bad guys and their evil machines. Long Price Quartet shows you a nation stagnating due to their reliance on their magic and tradition.

[Horza]

Picked up the Orbit versions of Shadow and Betrayal and Seasons of War a few weeks ago and just finished them. I had read Shadow and Betrayal a year or two back (Wert's pea soup cover) and while I was up on the who and the what it was well worth going back and re-reading as Abraham creates such perfectly realised characters and atmospheres.

[red snow]

I'm two-thirds through Autumn War and now I understand why so many people rave about this series. Abraham really throws a "I can't believe he just did that" into book 3 and this is definitely a series about real change and I'm amazed at how I'm rooting for both sides at once thanks to one of the most likeable "villains" I've read. Should be finished the series in a couple of weeks and joining that queue for his next fantasy project.

[The Evil Hat]

Trust me, you're not at the most jaw dropping moment of that book. It really is amazing.

[Horza]

Jaw-dropping and very winceable.

[red snow]

Trust me, you're not at the most jaw dropping moment of that book. It really is amazing.

I shall brace myself for it. I did have a crazy theory from book one but events in this book have nixed that idea (i'll spoiler it in case)

I was convinced that Otah was an andat and that the real otah was out there working behind the scenes still. That would have been pretty cool as surely the best way to bind an Andat is for it not to realise such? Then again I could never figure out his "power". Makes-friends-easily? Obviously the release of all the andat put an end to that theory but it would have made for a cool twist

[The Evil Hat]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, but wouldn't it be kind of self defeating? An andat that didn't know it was an andat couldn't escape, but if you made it do anything it'd know it was an andat, and it'd then escape.

[red snow]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, but wouldn't it be kind of self defeating? An andat that didn't know it was an andat couldn't escape, but if you made it do anything it'd know it was an andat, and it'd then escape.

I'll still spoiler it just because i don't want to limit first time readers options/interpretations.

If you were a poet prodigy who was planning on taking down the khaiem system then an excellent diversion would be to create an andat that was you and didn't realise it. It would simply be a diversion or possibly a mole, if the poet could see through the andat's eyes. Call it "what-could-have been" and let it live your life, while you get on with creating some kick-ass Andat and take over the world. In this instance Otah could just swoop down and take over from his double whenever he felt like it. The double would struggle at first but would be glad to be free once it knew what it was (or get some drama out of an andat that doesn't want to die). Job's a good one :)

[Garlan the Gallant]

Looks like Daniel's next book got renamed. I believe it was going to be titled, "The Dagger and the Coin;" however, Amazon now has it listed as, "The Dragon's Path." Maybe, "The Dagger and the Coin" is the name of the series.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dragons-Path-Daniel-Abraham/dp/1841498874/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274225395&sr=1-6

[DanielAbraham]

Maybe, "The Dagger and the Coin" is the name of the series.

Yup.

[trio]

OK, have just finished the first two books and I gotta admit guys - I'm struggling.

I KNOW! I'm slightly embarressed....

I'm seriously questioning myself now - I've heard nothing but raves for this series, but I'm just not getting into it. What the hell is wrong here???

I'm thinking that it's two things. I obviously have 2 prerequisites for fantasy that I never realised before: 1. That there's healthy doses of sex, and 2. that there's plenty of battles.

In this series, the only sex we get is vaguely described afterglow, and so far the only real wars have been off-screen.

So instead I'm left with a lot of diplomatic talk that OK, may affect the course of history, but is still not all that exciting in the moment.

Am I just a battle-whore?? (Feel free to say yes!)

I LOOOOOVED Abercrombie - there was tons of precarious violent situations. And twisted characters. But everyone in Abrahams is just so GOOD! Everyone has a conscience!

I'm just not getting thrilled by it at all - maybe I'm a dark cynical bitch or something. Maybe I just need darker characters and situations.

I've avoided any spoilers, and I bought both UK compendiums - so I'm gonna finish the series regardless. But I'm looking at my second compendium and feeling exhausted already.....*sigh*