NBA

[aeu]

[url="http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/11/pistons_to_trade_billups_mcdye.html"]Iverson to Pistons for Billups?[/url]

[add-on]

[quote name='Exa Inova' post='1575199' date='Nov 3 2008, 03.59']Congratulations Add-On. And you have all the reason to be proud. :cheers:[/quote][quote name='Slurktan' post='1575378' date='Nov 3 2008, 09.08']Congrats on the championship though![/quote]
[quote name='DVD ROTS' post='1575164' date='Nov 3 2008, 01.46']Haha, nice, man. Congratulations. Sounds like it was fuckin' epic.[/quote]
Thanks, guys. It was a lot of fun.


Slurk,

I think I'm done with this one. I think I've said everything I've wanted to say and I'm not really getting anywhere new anymore. So I guess I'll just let that last post of yours be the last word on the subject and we'll just see how it plays out over the season. Good luck with your Raps. I do like them as a team and hope for the best for them.



[quote name='aeu' post='1575533' date='Nov 3 2008, 11.08'][url="http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2008/11/pistons_to_trade_billups_mcdye.html"]Iverson to Pistons for Billups?[/url][/quote]
Wow. I don't even know what to think about this right now. Completely changes the complexion of Detroit's game if it's true though. Crazy.



ETA:

Okay Slurk, just this one thing. Sheed came into the league at age 21. JO came in at age 18. So even if they may have been the same age at the time of their respective trades, JO has had three more years of NBA beatings to accrue. Couple that with the fact that Sheed's inside out game allows him to be nicer to his body. The two acquisitions really are not very comparable.



Okay, I'm done I swear it.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='add-on' post='1575555' date='Nov 3 2008, 12.20']Okay Slurk, just this one thing. Sheed came into the league at age 21. JO came in at age 18. So even if they may have been the same age at the time of their respective trades, JO has had three more years of NBA beatings to accrue. Couple that with the fact that Sheed's inside out game allows him to be nicer to his body. The two acquisitions really are not very comparable.



Okay, I'm done I swear it.[/quote]

Hehe :) I know I just pointed out the ages given that you had said how old O'Neal was and such. I wasn't comparing the two that they would have the same effect as each other with their trades. I was more saying how their acquisition changed the way their respective teams played for better or worse. Sheed was brought into Detroit because they needed a scoring big. JO was brought in for defense.

Hell the Raps might be worse with JO. However his defense has already made the team better in that regard and given that he worked a lot with Bargnani this off season and Bargnani has been playing fantastic defense it could pay off even more down the road.


Regarding the Iverson trade...

I think in the end this will be a really bad trade for Detroit. Iverson is just too much of a ball hog and I can't see how he'll fit with Detroit's other parts, most notably Rip and Sheed. Although... Iverson's contract comes off the books this year or next?

Helps out the Raps though as it makes our matchup much easier IMO despite Iverson being a better overall individual player.

[Arakasi]

I don't understand this deal at all. McDyess and Billups for AI only makes sense in one regard. That being that AI is in his last year and they're planning to blow up their roster and start over. From a playing perspective for the Pistons it makes little sense. They already have a good AI guy. His name is Stuckey! Well Stuckey is not as fast as AI, but he is bigger. The plain and simple fact is that Stuckey is not really a good PG. He is more of a SG. So now they will have 3 SGs, 2 shooting forwards in Sheed and Prince (and neither of them anywhere as good as they used to be), a thinner front court and a loss of one of their 2 decent inside players. (Maxiel and McDyess are their inside guys, Sheed doesn't do inside much anymore) Hollinger is going to rip this trade bad and this deal only makes sense as a salary dump and precursor to rebooting the team.

[Rhom]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1575662' date='Nov 3 2008, 13.26']I don't understand this deal at all. McDyess and Billups for AI only makes sense in one regard. That being that AI is in his last year and they're planning to blow up their roster and start over. From a playing perspective for the Pistons it makes little sense... Hollinger is going to rip this trade bad and this deal only makes sense as a salary dump and precursor to rebooting the team.[/quote]

That's how I see it. There's no way possible they can think this is a good move on the court.

Of interest, didn't Billups and McDyess both used to play for the Nuggets?

[Slurktan]

Another thought could be that maybe they are looking to deal Sheed and/or Rip as well and this is just the start. I just don't see how those three will go together.

[add-on]

[quote name='Billy Clyde' post='1575690' date='Nov 3 2008, 12.46']That's how I see it. There's no way possible they can think this is a good move on the court.

Of interest, didn't Billups and McDyess both used to play for the Nuggets?[/quote]
Yeah, they were there together from 98-2000 with McDyess staying a couple years longer.

Still perplexed by this. The explanations in this thread do make a little sense, but...it's just so rare that a franchise sees the writing on the wall and acts before it's too late. Huh.

In that respect, it could end up being a very good trade for Detroit.

[Piper]

[quote name='Arakasi' post='1575662' date='Nov 3 2008, 13.26']I don't understand this deal at all.[/quote]

I think they're expecting Stuckey to run the point. He did a decent job of spelling Billups in the playoffs last year. Still seems odd though, as one of AI, Hamilton, and Prince would have to sit out at any given time unless they want to run small ball.

If Stuckey works out at PG, then they might be able to make a run in the East. If not, good draft spot and a lot of free cap room. Makes sense on that level.

[Arakasi]

Well I do understand this deal. Dumars is a realist. He has pretty much accepted that they can not win, really that they can't even get out of the east. So dumping Billups and his 3-4 years left for an expiring AI makes sense. AI is gone after this year. I expect this trade to cost the Pistons 5-10 wins. That being said, it might not even cost them much playoff position. We know Boston will be 1 in the East. So who else? Cleveland won't get over 50 wins, they never do and won't til they get Bron some serious help. Toronto and Philly and Orlando are all capable of getting to 50, and I give Chicago and Indiana (and maybe Atlanta) a half decent chance of getting to 45. So Detroit imo will drop from 2 in the conference to like 3 or maybe 4.

[Rhom]

Here's my question.

Detroit had no "new issues" crop up over the summer. The speculation that I read in this thread is the same speculation that we saw after they lost in the playoffs. So why wait until one week into the season to blow it all up? Why not get it done in the summer?

[Arakasi]

No point in making a deal early if it isn't the deal you want. If their plan was to unload contracts, then they needed to get a big expiring one back. Or it's possible they saw something in training camp and preseason with Stuckey/Billups that made them want to change. Getting rid of two old players is not a bad idea.

[add-on]

[quote name='Billy Clyde' post='1575751' date='Nov 3 2008, 13.36']Here's my question.

Detroit had no "new issues" crop up over the summer. The speculation that I read in this thread is the same speculation that we saw after they lost in the playoffs. So why wait until one week into the season to blow it all up? Why not get it done in the summer?[/quote]
Apparently, Dumars had been trying to get a number of deals done over the summer but was unable to come up with anything.


[quote name='Piper' post='1575736' date='Nov 3 2008, 13.20'][b]I think they're expecting Stuckey to run the point.[/b] He did a decent job of spelling Billups in the playoffs last year. Still seems odd though, as one of AI, Hamilton, and Prince would have to sit out at any given time unless they want to run small ball.[/quote]
From his interview on SportsCenter, Ric Bucher believes that to be the case. If it is, I do kind of like this trade for Detroit this year. Of course, it all depends on how willing Rip is to come off the bench. He's always struck me as a team player, but I'm still having trouble seeing that turn out well. Still, I like the starting lineup they'd be trotting out.

5 Maxiel or Johnson or whoever
4 Sheed
3 Prince
2 Iverson
1 Stuckey

Stuckey's 6'5" so he can guard the other team's 2 in most cases. Iverson does his scoring thing and gets open shots for other players by penetrating (he actually puts up a pretty high assist total every year). If Rip can acclimate himself to a 6th man role, he could come in and fill the 2 or 3 spot and provide Detroit with some serious punch off the bench.

The one big problem I have with this Bucher possibility is overall team chemistry. These guys have been a unit for a long time now. They've already lost their leader on the floor to a trade and now their go to scorer is being benched for the new guy? Not a big stretch to see that backfiring. Of course, if they go on a tear and start winning with this arrangement, I'm sure everybody will be very happy about it.

Plus, Hamilton's going to be around longer than AI, so it wouldn't exactly serve the organization to piss him off. Unless of course, they plan on dealing him, too.




In another scenario, Chad Ford wrote on ESPN that it's more likely Detroit will bring Stuckey off the bench with AI starting in the 1 spot. I hate this arrangement. Somebody already mentioned it in this thread. Iverson isn't a point guard and it hurts the team to try to make him one.

Whichever way they decide to go, I don't see this as a bad trade for Detroit. It works from a PR standpoint because Dumars is making it at least look like he's trying to keep Detroit in contention by acquiring one of the league's premier scorers. Also, as noted by many in this thread, it's a low risk move because if it doesn't work out, AI's gone and they've got all this free cap space with which to make something happen.



Btw, Bucher and Stephen A. also said that McDyess isn't expected to stay with the Nuggets, he was just included to make the numbers line up. Bucher even said that it's likely that he'll wait the mandatory thirty days after he's been waived, then return to the Pistons.









So, anybody want to talk about how this deal works for the Nuggets. I like it a lot. It works for Billups because he won't be expected to score as much -- he'll just need to facilitate. It works for the Nuggets because now they have someone to distribute the ball to all their talented scorers. 'Melo and JR Smith should have big years as a result of this deal.

[Young Wolf]

Im too busy controlling my raging hard-on for the Lakers season for far to pay attention to other teams. Forgive me. :P

YW

[Caliban]

I think this is a great deal for the Nuggs. McD will really help them down low and Billups is a great addition for Melo and JR smith. Hes a very solid defensive guard and great at spreading it around. This allows Nene Melo JR Smith and Kenyon Martin the floor general that they havent had over there. I made the case on this board that the AI to Denver trade made sense for Philly. I wish we could dig up that discussion because people on this board were very loudly postiung that the 76 got fleeced and that Denver pulled a rabit out of a hat. As it turned out Denver didnt really get better and Philly got way better, and has allowed players to develope that would get far fewer touches and shots with AI on the team.

Denver, without AI, is still capable of blowing up for 120 points. Denver just got a lot more competitive.

As for Detroit, in my opinion, this makes the Bulls-Piston matchup that must better for us. Rip and AI are similiar players. There really isnt enough floor for both of them, and the thought that Stuckey is going to slide into the void is silly.

Tough night for the Bulls tonight, good comeback, just short.

[add-on]

[quote name='Young Wolf' post='1576142' date='Nov 3 2008, 18.17']Im too busy controlling my raging hard-on for the Lakers season for far to pay attention to other teams. Forgive me. :P

YW[/quote]
Shut it, you. :P

[quote name='Caliban' post='1576285' date='Nov 3 2008, 21.09']As for Detroit, in my opinion, this makes the Bulls-Piston matchup that must better for us. Rip and AI are similiar players.[/quote]
Not really. Rip has built a career on coming off screens and hitting mid-range jumpshots. AI has built a career off the ability to use his quickness to get to the bucket. Very different players.

[quote]There really isnt enough floor for both of them,[/quote]
Which isn't to say that I completely disagree with this point.

[quote]and the thought that Stuckey is going to slide into the void is silly.[/quote]
Why? He's been very good with the minutes he's been given. Plus, Billups was slowing down. Might be better to throw the kid out there and see what he can do than let Billups keep fading until he's got no trade value. I don't think Stuckey will be the floor leader that Billups was (which will hurt), but I think he'll put up comparable numbers.


[quote]Tough night for the Bulls tonight, good comeback, just short.[/quote]
They need to stop letting Ben Gordon bring it up down the stretch. He's terrible when trying to create his shot from the top like that. Give it to Derrick and let him create in that situation. He may find Ben for an open, stationary look. Which is what Ben needs -- not some awkward shot thrown up after coming off a screen that gave him a little room but not enough.

Still, it was good to see the Bulls come back from 10 down with under 3 minutes to go and almost pull it out.

[Commodore]

Clutch the mascot [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhhTjgPXxI"]scaring children[/url], then getting attacked by them.

[Exa Inova]

This trade is huge. I dont have enough time to fully dive into this but my first impression is Denver benefits more by bringing in Billips.

I dont think AI will be coming of the bench, Stuckey will continue in that role. But I wonder how AI and Rip will function in a backcourt.

[quote]QUOTE (Caliban @ Nov 3 2008, 21.09)
As for Detroit, in my opinion, this makes the Bulls-Piston matchup that must better for us. Rip and AI are similiar players.

Not really. Rip has built a career on coming off screens and hitting mid-range jumpshots. AI has built a career off the ability to use his quickness to get to the bucket. Very different players.[/quote]

I agree with Add that they are different players but they [b]did[/b] play the same way. In the Larry Brown era in Philly AI did come off screens. Snow was manning the point in those days.
I think that AI will man the point just like he did at times with Denver. I also think that Curry will have Sheed playing in the post more.

The best option will be to make AI the primary scoring option for the second unit, but like I said, I dont believe that this will happen.
I also think it very likely that AI will finish the season else where.


How about this tangent people. McDyess will get bought out by Denver but instead of signing with Detroit for the vet minimum he signs with Boston instead. That would be a shocker (and would make more sense if you're McDyess looking for your first ring)
Remember folks, you read it here first!

[Sir Thursday]

[url="http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1104/nba_a_iverson_580.jpg"]Taste my Force Lightning![/url] :P


The Hawks beating the Hornets in New Orleans has got pushed down in the headlines a bit because of Parker and Amare's performances, but very impressive, I thought. They've started off strongly, and it's not like they've had pushover opposition to get to 3-0 - Orlando away is another good win, although Philly at home is not quite the same calibre. It's early days, but I think if Al Horford continues to improve they might cause a few surprises. They've certainly got two players in Josh Smith and Joe Johnson who can light it up on their nights...


Sir Thursday

[Arakasi]

If Atlanta keeps playing like this they're going to hit 50 wins. I didn't think they would win any of those 3, but they won all 3. Very impressive.

[add-on]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1576352' date='Nov 3 2008, 23.33']Clutch the mascot [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhhTjgPXxI"]scaring children[/url], then getting attacked by them.[/quote]
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Just watched that for the first time. The last fifteen seconds are priceless.