Swords and other props

[Northwest]

Obviusly, they will need a lot of weapons and armor...i guess they can get a part of them from other series and films but part of them will have to be made...

So I have two questions:

1. What about Valyrian swords? They have to look differently than the rest..but how differently...and do they make them look different with CGI or they just produce a handful of really nice looking weird swords?

2. Helms? Remember how every lord seems to have a different helm adorned with decorations? I really hope they put that into series...and tywinns golden armor to...

And are how much do these props and costumes cost?

[Pathfinder]

Valyrian swords don't look weird, only the steel looks different. No spikes and skulls in the pommels :)

[cronos619]

They would cost an arm and a leg to buy them from a producer of such things, but if they bring several skilled armourers on board it would be much cheaper in the long run. The crest for the helms are easy enough to make and affix to the helms. Although I have only ever done a Lion and a Griffin, both Rampant, I can't imaging it would be all that more difficult with other animals.

Valarian steel swords should have blades that are forged with folded steel. I IIRC they are described as having been folded onto themselves 500 times and forged with magic as much as the hammer. Swords with blades forged with a folding technique tend to have that wavey pattern described in the books.

For practical filming purposes if the project makes it to series, they will need to produce quite a lot of armor, and multiples of the same suits used by main characters. If Jon and the boys of the Watch are filming training with Thorn for 4 or 5 hours, you don't really want your stars standing around in a real haulberk for that long. Although I certainly hope they don't go the WETA / LOTR route with the plastic rings. The armour I have years of experience with making, but as for the swords I would not rate my skill good enough for what the show needs.

[Ran]

I suspect it'd be the WETA route, myself. Just cheaper and easier if you're going to need lots of maille in a hurry.

[cronos619]

[quote name='Ran' post='1615300' date='Dec 10 2008, 16.48']I suspect it'd be the WETA route, myself. Just cheaper and easier if you're going to need lots of maille in a hurry.[/quote]

You are probably right, and for any scenes with large crowds in armor, that are done as medium or long shots it would work fine. As long as they have something closer to "real" for the close shots of our "heroes"

[Pathfinder]

Some nerdy stuff: You can't actually see if the steel has been folded in a blade while making per se, cause folding is done to remove impurities from the ore only, in general. But, if you fold two different types of steel, or steel and iron, like early viking swords, you get a pattern look.
Now, for the Valiryian steel, as I recall, there's suppose to be some reddish hue to it? And a pattern look, but pretty subtle, so I would imagine it would be easy to do with cgi on closeups, or completely ignore it for the series.

[Ran]

Valyrian steel is dark grey or black. The red you're thinking of is the Lannister Valyrian steel swords made from Ice, which had color introduced to them by the smith, Tobho Mott.

I'd guess it'd be pretty simple to arrange the swords, really.

[Pathfinder]

Thank you for the correction Ran :)

[cronos619]

[quote name='Ran' post='1615808' date='Dec 11 2008, 02.30']I'd guess it'd be pretty simple to arrange the swords, really.[/quote]


There is a man I know of here in the states, Kerry Stagmer, who works at the Baltimore Knife and Steel company. His work is both beautiful and combat worthy. D&D should put his name on the list of persons to look at for making some of the more intricate pieces that will need a "combat double". The Joust company I worked for used his swords exclusively and some of them had survived thousands of shows of two guys in plate beating on each other. However, I'm sure that there are more than a few swordsmiths of comparable skill and talent in the UK. Probably easier and cheaper to get some one local.

[Myrddin]

Wouldn't they use the Valyrian Steel' Longclaw as a model for how Valyrian should look?

It's gone back and forth with GRRM for approval and they've already figured out how to replicate it.

Of course, their stainless steel blades wouldn't be used for the actual fight scenes, but they'd work for the close ups.

[Pathfinder]

Goodness, no! GRRM should stick to writing, and not sword design approvals :)
Seriously, it looks like a toy. Especially with the wolf's head turned sideways, it screams "wallhanger". Blade is too wide and long for that length of handle, or vice versa. Look up Albion Armorers "Munich" sword..now that's Longclaw for you :)

[Myrddin]

[quote name='Pathfinder' post='1616127' date='Dec 11 2008, 09.14']Goodness, no! GRRM should stick to writing, and not sword design approvals :)
Seriously, it looks like a toy. Especially with the wolf's head turned sideways, it screams "wallhanger". Blade is too wide and long for that length of handle, or vice versa. Look up Albion Armorers "Munich" sword..now that's Longclaw for you :)[/quote]
I was thinking more of the blade texture/valyrian treatment.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='cronos619' post='1615277' date='Dec 11 2008, 11.34']They would cost an arm and a leg to buy them from a producer of such things, but if they bring several skilled armourers on board it would be much cheaper in the long run. The crest for the helms are easy enough to make and affix to the helms. Although I have only ever done a Lion and a Griffin, both Rampant, I can't imaging it would be all that more difficult with other animals.

Valarian steel swords should have blades that are forged with folded steel. I IIRC they are described as having been folded onto themselves 500 times and forged with magic as much as the hammer. Swords with blades forged with a folding technique tend to have that wavey pattern described in the books.

For practical filming purposes if the project makes it to series, they will need to produce quite a lot of armor, and multiples of the same suits used by main characters. If Jon and the boys of the Watch are filming training with Thorn for 4 or 5 hours, you don't really want your stars standing around in a real haulberk for that long. Although I certainly hope they don't go the WETA / LOTR route with the plastic rings. The armour I have years of experience with making, but as for the swords I would not rate my skill good enough for what the show needs.[/quote]

If not iron/steel and not plastic then what? wood?

[quote name='Ran' post='1615300' date='Dec 11 2008, 11.48']I suspect it'd be the WETA route, myself. Just cheaper and easier if you're going to need lots of maille in a hurry.[/quote]

[quote name='cronos619' post='1615277' date='Dec 11 2008, 11.34']You are probably right, and for any scenes with large crowds in armor, that are done as medium or long shots it would work fine. As long as they have something closer to "real" for the close shots of our "heroes"[/quote]

Which is more or less what Weta did. The rather cheesy hauberk scene with Gimli is the real deal.

I've got a feeling they are only going to go to any significant expense on main character armour and weapons. If they try to get authentic about everyone's arms and armour they will be facing a serious budget blow-out.

[Pathfinder]

hey, there's bound to be some maille leftover from "Rome" :)

[cronos619]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1618063' date='Dec 13 2008, 04.44']If not iron/steel and not plastic then what? wood?

Which is more or less what Weta did. The rather cheesy hauberk scene with Gimli is the real deal.

I've got a feeling they are only going to go to any significant expense on main character armour and weapons. If they try to get authentic about everyone's arms and armour they will be facing a serious budget blow-out.[/quote]


Aluminum, 14 gauge wire, 3/8 inch butted rings, duressed to remove the shine. Light weight enough to be worn all day, cheap and easy to make.

Jaime's armor will be the real fun, and there will need to be 3 sets of it made if it goes to series. 1 for the stunt guy, 2 for the actor, 1 ultra light weight for long days of film probably made from 18 guage, and one of 14/12 gauge mix for close ups.

For the masses that need some form of plate, it can all be done out of 18, which requires very little time / effort for shaping and articulation.

The only scene for the pilot that will need a vaste amount of arms and armor, as it is written in the book, would be the arrival of Roberts party at Winterfell. 300 knights, sellswords, etc. but it will depend on how they want to film it. They certainly could do something more low key for the pilot, and if it gets picked up reshoot that scene on a larger scale if they felt it would be better.

[Pathfinder]

Would they be wearing all that armour at all while traveling? I don't remember how the book goes about it..

[cronos619]

[quote name='Pathfinder' post='1620050' date='Dec 15 2008, 14.15']Would they be wearing all that armour at all while traveling? I don't remember how the book goes about it..[/quote]

I would assume that a certain number would be armoured. They are escorting the King after all. As I remembered it in the book they were fully decked out for the arrival, but I could be remembering incorrectly. But I think they key would be to have the 2 Kingsguard, Jaime, Sandor and several "knights" armoured up. Kingsguard are on duty, Sandor seems to live in his armour, and Jaime would also be on duty for protecting Robert, but I don't have my book at hand to see if armour or lack there of is specificly described.

[Venardhi]

Remember also that they knew they would be arriving that day, so a lot of people would get in their best clothes/armor to present themselves with all the proper pomp and circumstance. I suspect just about every knight who marched into Winterfell did it in armor that day.