Direwolves

[fitheach]

I was wondering what breed of dog they'll use to be cast as the direwolves, since the real thing went the way of the sabertooth tiger and mammoth.

So, casting wolves is tricky (very shy animals), as are wolf/ dog mixes (too dangerous sometimes with the dog mixed in). What kind of breed could look the part, since CGI would be cheesey.

I thought Alaskan Malamute:

[url="http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/alaskanmalamute.htm"]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/alaskanmalamute.htm[/url]

or Belgan Sheppards:

[url="http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/belgiangroenendael.htm"]http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/belgiangroenendael.htm[/url]

They are just as important to cast.

[Kingthlayer!]

I like the Belgian Sheppards, personally. THe Malamute breed is used a lot in substitute for wolves, and I think most people can tell the difference. The Shep might be a bit slim, but maybe that varies.

The wolf CGI from the first Narnia movie was alright. They interspersed CGI with real dogs. THey might have been hybrids with wolves... not sure.

[Adelle Tully]

I would have to say nay to the malamutes as the breed is definitely not known for their intelligence (actually more likely their lack there of).

I had a mut who was part timber wolf, malamute, and husky. He was HUGE and looked like a wolf. The dogs they use don't necessarily need to be pure breeds, any mut will do, providing that they look like wolves and are of a large size.

[Ser Monte]

You need to use CGI, otherwise all direwolves will be just another dog.

CGI isn't as bad as some people complain about, as long as its used sparingly and its done by someone skilled in the trade. The direwolves grow to be as big as a horse, there is no dogs or real wolves like that. If you hate CGI so much, I say just hope more for a good rendition of the story and talented actors, not worry about minor effects. Besides you might get lucky and see ghost as uber awesome even with the CGI.

[siyrean]

thing is, other than being bigger than a dog... i know of no reason story wise, why they can't say they're the same size as other wolves but considered fiercer/stronger/faster? unless the kids are actually riding them in future books... :uhoh:

[lacuna]

I think they can get away with using real dogs for the first season, and then decide on whether to use camera trickery on real dogs or full-on CGI for the remaining seasons (knock wood), based on the budget allotted by HBO.

Real dogs might do since the direwolves are still pretty small in season one, and, as far as I can remember, the only animals that need to be CGI-ed. (Until the last episode, and dragons are also easier to do since they don't have all that troublesome fur.) Real dogs should also help the performances of the youngest actors since they're, you know, there.

This also means that only one graphics development team (for sets and landscapes) is necessary for the first season. (Or not? I know precisely nothing about TV production.)

And, I agree that poorly done CGI-direwolves will add a few cheesiness points to the series.

As for which breed to use, I've heard that wolves are very, very hard to train, and will the parents/guardians of the child actors agree to let their kids interact with real live wolves? I'd be a little dubious, to say the least. A dog can snap, especially when partnered with other dogs, but several wolves?

[Pathfinder]

Adelle, your statement about Malamutes is simply not true.
Mals are known as intelligent but strong willed dogs, unlike "eager to please" german shepherd for example.
Just because GS says "yes sir" and Mal says "why do I need to go there again?" doesn't make Mals less intelligent.

Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
[url="http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/i/czechoslovakian_wolfdog.jpg"]http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/i/cze...ian_wolfdog.jpg[/url]

[Julia Dondarrion]

I dont' know, Narnia made great steps in CGI, the wolves were beautiful. I think they may intersperse, but then, it completely depends on teh budget and time allotment.

[Venardhi]

A combination of real wolves, real wolves shot for composite to make them look bigger, puppets and CGI would be the best option. If you have a whole toolbelt at your disposal, why just use the hammer or the saw for everything?

[igoraki]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1674614' date='Feb 5 2009, 07.06']A combination of real wolves, real wolves shot for composite to make them look bigger, puppets and CGI would be the best option. If you have a whole toolbelt at your disposal, why just use the hammer or the saw for everything?[/quote]

Why puppets ?

Use dogs on shooting and replace them CGI wolfs when kids need to interact with them and resized real wolves for all other cases sound good to me,maybe mix of those two if needed.

[Venardhi]

Because puppets have their uses. Far easier to digitally enhance a puppet that is doing exactly what you want than a dog or wolf who may not be. It also makes the size issue moot. We're not talking muppets here, realistic puppetry has come a long way over the years and even moreso since the advent of CGI in an attempt to be competitive, Jurassic Park anyone?

[antisocial]

I think they're going to have to use some CGI for the dire wolves, like someone else said if you dont then they just become another dog.
Personally I'd like to see them use Irish Wolfhounds as the base for dire wolves. They have the size and the mass.
[url="http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images15/IrishWolfhoundFrankBrendan.JPG"]Big doggie[/url]
[url="http://www.irishwolfhounds.eu/VASCON_DEBOUT_0091_Small.JPG"]A bigger doggie...or just a shorter guy.[/url]

[igoraki]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1674785' date='Feb 5 2009, 12.32']Because puppets have their uses. Far easier to digitally enhance a puppet that is doing exactly what you want than a dog or wolf who may not be. It also makes the size issue moot. We're not talking muppets here, realistic puppetry has come a long way over the years and even moreso since the advent of CGI in an attempt to be competitive, Jurassic Park anyone?[/quote]

Puppets can be usable,no doubt,just dont think they are best choice in this case.Creating animatronics of the wolf can be more complex then creating 3d model and animating that,imho.Wolfs are fast creatures that run around all the time,so getting the movement to look natural would be tricky with puppets,again mho.Puppets worked well in Pan's Labyrinth and Hellboy 2,but again those are some weird monsters and we all know how does wolfs look and move since they are real animals we all saw,in zoo at last.So creating something believable is much harder.

[Brude]

Using a mix of techniques often does bring about the best results for these kinds of things. I can easily see puppets being used in certain situations especially any of the moments you want to see Ghost or Gray Wolf attacking something or somebody or otherwise directly interacting with them. It gives you a lot of control and your actor can properly react off of the thing in the scene. Punch it up with some CGI and maybe take out the puppet operators the same way (if necessary) and it can look very, very good. I think a lot of people don't realize that much of the T-Rex scene in Jurassic Park was shot with a gigantic puppet, that movie was not all CGI. ([url="http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/the_astrovert/Blogger/stan-winston.jpg"]Stan Winston with his T-Rex puppet.[/url])

[El-ahrairah]

Especially at the beginning, it must be made manifest that these are [i]direwolves[/i], not just big puppy dogs (or even conventional wolves). Real animals might be used, but some manipulation (CGI or otherwise) must be done, like editing ear and snout shape, to show their uniqueness.

[Frank Stark]

[quote name='Julia Dondarrion' post='1674212' date='Feb 4 2009, 17.33']I dont' know, Narnia made great steps in CGI, the wolves were beautiful. I think they may intersperse, but then, it completely depends on teh budget and time allotment.[/quote]

What she said. Maybe I have different standards or something, but I thought the animals in the first Narnia movie looked and worked just great.

And I wouldn't get too bogged down in looking like an exact replica of our historical direwolves. If they come off as oversized regular wolves, that'll be fine with me.

[fitheach]

[quote name='Pathfinder' post='1674140' date='Feb 4 2009, 16.38']Adelle, your statement about Malamutes is simply not true.
Mals are known as intelligent but strong willed dogs, unlike "eager to please" german shepherd for example.
Just because GS says "yes sir" and Mal says "why do I need to go there again?" doesn't make Mals less intelligent.

Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
[url="http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/i/czechoslovakian_wolfdog.jpg"]http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/i/cze...ian_wolfdog.jpg[/url][/quote]


Oh, I like the Czek wolfdog! Good one.

But yeah, wolves and wolf/dog mixes are unlikely because of safety issues. One because wolves get stressed around humans-especially many humans (as there would be on set), and wolf/ dog mixes are at times dangerous- they have the power of wolves and the agressive nature of dogs, not a great combo. I had a friend who's face was bitten by a wolf/dog mix. This pet knew her well and loved her, but one day snapped for some reason and she had to go to hospital. So, I dont see actors wanting that.

If it's CGI, it would have to be great since the children are with their direwolves alot in the beginning...What is the budget on this production?

[dizzy]

Saarlooswolfhond is a good looking Wolf hybrid dog.

[Venardhi]

By definition, a dog/wolf hybrid is less aggressive. A dog has been systematically bred for docility and submission towards humans, a Wolf has none of that selective breeding and can be kept in line purely through force of will (convincing it you are the alpha male) and a willing submission on its part (it being convinced that is isn't the alpha male). Dogs are not more aggressive than wolves by any means, but their latent wolf instincts do occasionally pop up and some dogs will gladly embrace a violent and aggressive personality if lead that way by their owners. Either way, wolves can and have been used on film sets. So have bears and tigers and other things that eat us in the wild. No animal makes it on set without a lot of training (usually from birth essentially) and the insurance company clearing it.

BTW, my suggestion of puppets was for closeups only, as obviously a puppet could not be made to convincingly run.

[siyrean]

[quote name='El-ahrairah' post='1675107' date='Feb 5 2009, 12.20']Especially at the beginning, it must be made manifest that these are [i]direwolves[/i], not just big puppy dogs (or even conventional wolves). Real animals might be used, but some manipulation (CGI or otherwise) must be done, like editing ear and snout shape, to show their uniqueness.[/quote]

why?