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Venardhi

A script review. - SPOILERS

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That's why we have Martin. He's gonna give the script a touch up. Why are you all bent outta shape. You all hung in after Eddard was killed. Stay the friggin course. It'll be fine. Lord of the rings. It got made, it wasn't perfect. Nothing is. You wanna see something that's NOT Thrones? Or something that 80% Thrones?

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That's why we have Martin. He's gonna give the script a touch up. Why are you all bent outta shape. You all hung in after Eddard was killed. Stay the friggin course. It'll be fine. Lord of the rings. It got made, it wasn't perfect. Nothing is. You wanna see something that's NOT Thrones? Or something that 80% Thrones?

While I agree in the main, I don't think we should expect GRRM to start rewriting scripts (if that is what you meant by "a touch up"). I'm sure he will comment on any script produced, which will catch any of the significant problems. But for example, the reaction to Gared's death is not significant. The TV series will be free to change minor things (maybe because they want to do something more with Robb or for some other reason).

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I think we need to accept that there will be certain differences from the books. However much knowledge GRRM has of scriptwriting, he was writing them originally as novels, and as such, there will be aspects which work better on screen if altered slightly.

So long as the changes we see are literally minor nitpicks, I'm happy with that. Having read the script (and being well aware that this is not a final draft), I was quite happy with it. It stuck closer to the originals than I was hoping, in some ways, and I liked most of the additional scenes, feeling that they simply helped to expand a little on things which were missed in the books.

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While I agree in the main, I don't think we should expect GRRM to start rewriting scripts (if that is what you meant by "a touch up"). I'm sure he will comment on any script produced, which will catch any of the significant problems. But for example, the reaction to Gared's death is not significant. The TV series will be free to change minor things (maybe because they want to do something more with Robb or for some other reason).

I'm sure he's gonna get a copy and they'll give him a big ol' red marker and say, "Fix the nouns and other incorrect stuff." I hope they do a little something different. That's what art is all about. After an artist paints a picture, a writer pushed out a book, whatever, the viewer is then the person who really matters. It's all about what we take from it. I hope they have fun and add some new stuff. I hope they keep some old stuff. I'm thinking that this group can produce well together and I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

Its like a trinity; not so holy, but hot damn, plenty o' potential!

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I'm sure he's gonna get a copy and they'll give him a big ol' red marker and say, "Fix the nouns and other incorrect stuff." I hope they do a little something different. That's what art is all about. After an artist paints a picture, a writer pushed out a book, whatever, the viewer is then the person who really matters. It's all about what we take from it. I hope they have fun and add some new stuff. I hope they keep some old stuff. I'm thinking that this group can produce well together and I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

Its like a trinity; not so holy, but hot damn, plenty o' potential!

Yup. All that makes sense. With the Lannisters been introduced differently, they do indeed seem to be taking a different approach, which works well for TV.

And interesting theory on the script. :)

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The date you joined (This website:NOV 05') would've been right around the time I saw Martin and a crew of people in Burlington VT (My homestate) I had written him sometime earlier on his website. He had lamented upon how to get such a large project done on the screen. (More like everyone wanted it, and he was being logical... too big for feature films). I wrote him and suggested HBO. I'd like to think I had somethin' to do with this push (I know that's not the case, but I shall continue to delude myself).

Anyway, they were in the mall food area at Church St. Marketplace, eating and talking about... making movies. I don't know if Benoiff was there with him, I doubt it. I walked away, didn't want to "fanboy" him.

Yup. All that makes sense. With the Lannisters been introduced differently, they do indeed seem to be taking a different approach, which works well for TV.

And interesting theory on the script. :)

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Anyway, they were in the mall food area at Church St. Marketplace, eating and talking about... making movies. I don't know if Benoiff was there with him, I doubt it. I walked away, didn't want to "fanboy" him.

you have more will power than i do i would have just had to say hi and thank him for all good times i have had enjoying his work (unless i got shy in front of my favorite author witch is definitely a possibility )

P.S. LOL i just realized he is the only author I have read that I could actually reconize on site, it would be his own fault for puting his pic on the back of his books

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''Yes, Father,'' Bran told him. He looked up. Wrapped in his furs and leathers, mounted on his great warhorse, his lord father loomed over him like a giant. ''Robb says the man died bravely, but Jon says he was afraid.''

''What do you think?'' his father asked.

Bran thought about it. ''Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?''

''That is the only time a man can be brave'' his father told him.

Amazing dialogue but not in the script! Hmm...

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Amazing dialogue but not in the script! Hmm...

Until I see this script, I'm gonna stick to my guns. Someone send me a personal message with the script location. Please do NOT post it on this forum. (Don't ban me from the topic, just trying to help)

I once felt about Lord of the Rings the same way you are all feeling now. But without seeing the final product, and knowing that much HAS to be cut in order to build a work that the ENTIRE population can get behind and repeatedly watch (build ratings) I'm willing to see my enjoyment of a good LITERARY work be just that. It will be an enjoyment of the books. I understand that the Series will have to be different.

Do we want what happened to Rome to happen to this series. Do we want to get to "CLASH o KINGS" and then, "Pft!" not enough support, series over. No, we want to see the end of the series on HBO. That means the show must appeal to everyone, not just well versed fans. That means converting Soprano fans who dislike fantasy, or other fans who normally would not fit into this genre. That's why we should be drumming up support by converting others, not arguing script details.

Also we should be trying to convince David and Dan to rescind the "No-American actors" pseudo ban. (my selfishness coming through, oh well)

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Amazing dialogue but not in the script! Hmm...

But I agree. That must have been a tough line to cut. I'm sure the writers loathed to lose it. It's one of those lines that can definitely help to make a series... with the right directing and music, of course.

Yeah, some stuff will be hard to swallow, I admit. That's one of em', for sure. Rough, rough, rough.

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Here's another thing I just though of. What if that line isn't in the first episode (it true location on the time line)? There are so many flashbacks... it could easily make it into the series

just later on. Hmm... that possible?

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GRRM is so talented that the series is chock-full of utterly awesome lines. Unfortunately, the restrictions of the script-writing process means that we'll be lucky to see even half of them realised on screen.

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Sorry but it's true, this exchance MUST be in the script. It was a key moment very early in the story that established my connection to Ned's character and will work for a large audience unfamiliar with the books. Very telling of the type of person he is yet in very few words. This was the part which suddenly had me realizing I was getting into something epic, something special and it turns out I was right.

''Yes, Father,'' Bran told him. He looked up. Wrapped in his furs and leathers, mounted on his great warhorse, his lord father loomed over him like a giant. ''Robb says the man died bravely, but Jon says he was afraid.''

''What do you think?'' his father asked.

Bran thought about it. ''Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?''

''That is the only time a man can be brave'' his father told him.

I don't know how you can have the pilot without this dialogue. 'Twould be unforgiveable to leave it out.

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The script that got out, assuming it was real (I've read it, I believe it was), is almost certainly an early draft, probably the first submitted to HBO last year. There have been, if IIRC, two more drafts since then. There is no telling what kinds of changes have been made since then and scripts often continually evolve right up until the start of principle photography and even while a shoot is ongoing.

The process of production itself, the interactions between the director and actors in rehearsals and on set lead to knew ideas, can show that certain scene that look great on the page don't work at all when spoken aloud. I've done table readings of scripts that I hated but the minute I heard it being spoken by several very good actors, it came alive in ways I couldn't hear in my own mind. I've worked on shoots where scenes didn't work, only to have it saved by some brilliant observation or improvisation by an actor. My former company used to run a weekly writers and actors group for our clients and friends in the industry and I've seen scripts that I loved and everybody loved on the page come out sounding horrible once actors tried to roll the dialogue around in their mouths a bit. These things have always been a part of the process, probably since Aescylus, at least.

The point is, don't get too worked up over what you are reading now. It probably is only somewhat related to whatever is going to be in the can come October.

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The script that got out, assuming it was real (I've read it, I believe it was), is almost certainly an early draft, probably the first submitted to HBO last year. There have been, if IIRC, two more drafts since then. There is no telling what kinds of changes have been made since then and scripts often continually evolve right up until the start of principle photography and even while a shoot is ongoing.

The process of production itself, the interactions between the director and actors in rehearsals and on set lead to knew ideas, can show that certain scene that look great on the page don't work at all when spoken aloud. I've done table readings of scripts that I hated but the minute I heard it being spoken by several very good actors, it came alive in ways I couldn't hear in my own mind. I've worked on shoots where scenes didn't work, only to have it saved by some brilliant observation or improvisation by an actor. My former company used to run a weekly writers and actors group for our clients and friends in the industry and I've seen scripts that I loved and everybody loved on the page come out sounding horrible once actors tried to roll the dialogue around in their mouths a bit. These things have always been a part of the process, probably since Aescylus, at least.

The point is, don't get too worked up over what you are reading now. It probably is only somewhat related to whatever is going to be in the can come October.

I agree. You're right on and I thank you for saying it. See fellas, Maybe the "Dip your wick..." won't be so bad, or even present. That was my point. This is all a bit premature. And even if it is the case, who cares. We still get to see something of quality.

Thanks for the back up. I think that it was the same way back in the time of the classics. Some cared about sticking to the work, some didn't. I'm sorta in both camps. But I'm all for what works.

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But also, since D&D are demonstrably reading and posting on the boards, the fact that enough people point out weaknesses/inconsistencies might prompt them to change things around. So maybe it's a good thing to get a bit "up in arms" about things that could be done better. Just a thought.

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Yup, you're right to a degree. 'Up in Arms' is too much, but communication about our thoughts on this possible script is important. It provides insight so that the producers can get a 'test run' of how the fans might react. It's great that this can occur, because healthy debate is important, provided it's just that... healthy. But the fans are not the only viewers.

Saying the program shouldn't be done at all (due to script changes), or prejudging overmuch isn't helpful nor is it constructive. We need to keep in mind this will be made for television; an entirely different animal than literature. The screen has a tendency to need to appeal to many audiences, not just the fans of the genre. Does that mean that the fans will suffer? Only if the fans are incapable of compromise.

But also, since D&D are demonstrably reading and posting on the boards, the fact that enough people point out weaknesses/inconsistencies might prompt them to change things around. So maybe it's a good thing to get a bit "up in arms" about things that could be done better. Just a thought.

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