Tea Bagging

[AndyP]

For the record RT's going Galt comment is silly just as EHKs backwater comment is ignorant. Look I don't mind my taxes so much as I mind the spending, just as I minded Bush's spending (if conservatives and libertarians can't admit that Bush started this mess and made it worse with all the bailouts of the banks and all, then we are not being intellectually honest and don't deserve to be listened to). I don't believe that the budget deficits that are being projected are sustainable and that taxes will be raised on everyone and not just the richest 5%.


LoB

I agree with you, yes to more nuclear power.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='the Blauer Dragon' post='1756673' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.40']I wish I could find the guy with the "Don't Tax me Bro" sign...[/quote]
How about some [url="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2009/04/tax-day-tea-parties.php?img=1"]shirts[/url]?

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='RhaegarTar' post='1756603' date='Apr 15 2009, 20.58']Considering it was assembled completely independent of any media or political organizations, just the fact that they got more than 700 events across the country on a Wednesday afternoon was impressive enough to me. Remember, unlike the hippie protesters, we have actual jobs we have to do (i'm going on vacation home to Maine tomorrow, so I just took the afternoon off so I could attend). We have to start rebuilding this country and moving beyond the two-party boondoggle somewhere.[/quote]

Huh...what? This thing had constant, 24/7 promotion on Fox news and talk radio. Bloggers pumped it. They promoted til their lungs bled. And every Republican politician with an ounce of ambition tried to get in on the act. Whether this ever was a 'grass roots' thing, it was very quickly co-opted and had about as much institutional support as you can get and still be called a protest. In light of all of that, its not terribly impressive. Your 'hippies' can get those numbers in a single place or millions in multiple places without any mainstream political or mass media support.

[The_BlauerDragon]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1756693' date='Apr 15 2009, 19.53']How about some [url="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2009/04/tax-day-tea-parties.php?img=1"]shirts[/url]?[/quote]
Thanks. I'll find them, buy them... they'll go nicely with the [url="http://a4.vox.com/6a00c2251c8676549d00c2251debd48fdb-500pi"]gaming poster[/url] on my wall.

[HokieStone]

[quote name='EHK for Darwin' post='1756696' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.58']Your 'hippies' can get those numbers in a single place or millions in multiple places without any mainstream political or mass media support.[/quote]


You probably even believe that. Cute.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756650' date='Apr 15 2009, 21.24']Population by region [url="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764220.html"]Population by region[/url] The South is the largest with 109 million roughly 1/3 of the total. Assuming that we give MD, DC and DEL the the Northeast it is still the largest region 102 million.

You can't operate without energy. [url="http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/refineries.htm"]EIA[/url] list of the largest refineries by state in order of production. It is interesting how many times backwaters like Louisiana and Texas come up. If you want to go green, well sadly much of the south hasn't gotten into the wind game [url="http:///www.awea.org/projects/"]AWEA[/url] but Texas has 1/5 of all the nations wind turbines. Oh and prospects for solar power in the north are laughable, it's to dark for to much of the year. Enjoy burning that coal unless you go nuclear.[/quote]

Because...the north is incapable of building refineries to use the foreign oil that we'll be buying from others just like the south will? In a country where about half the power comes from coal, thankfully we'll have a bigger share of the coal supply.

[url="http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/coalreserves.html"]http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/coalreserves.html[/url]

And how the fuck are you guys gonna compete on a global footing when your shitty schools get even shittier with mandated ID education? Which side of the divide do you think the educated professionals are gonna largely flood to? The place with the money, Wall Street, the largest banks (ok, all of that ain't a great endorsement right now, but you get the picture), the art and culture, public services, good roads and schools, etc.

[AndyP]

[quote name='EHK for Darwin' post='1756713' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.11']Because...the north is incapable of building refineries to use the foreign oil that we'll be buying from others just like the south will? In a country where about half the power comes from coal, thankfully we'll have a bigger share of the coal supply.

[url="http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/coalreserves.html"]http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/coalreserves.html[/url]

And how the fuck are you guys gonna compete on a global footing when your shitty schools get even shittier with mandated ID education? Which side of the divide do you think the educated professionals are gonna largely flood to?[/quote]

The side that is already wining the battle for educated professionals now, the south. It has been winning that battle for the last 30 years or more. As far as the schools go my daughter was in one of the best school districts in Michigan when we lived there. When we moved to Texas she was behind the curb. After a struggle she is now making As, but in comparison Michigan schools were well slack.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='HokieStone' post='1756710' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.09']You probably even believe that. Cute.[/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_protests_against_war_on_Iraq"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_protes...nst_war_on_Iraq[/url]
[quote][b]On January 16, 2003[/b], protests were held worldwide

According to rally organizers, more than 200,000 Americans were in attendance

In[b] San Francisco[/b], between 150,000 and 200,000 people attended the demonstration.

[b]The February 15 international protests[/b]

[b]NY[/b]: In total estimates range from been 300,000 to 400,000 protesters (WSWS estimate).[37] to over a million protesters (Berlin Heise estimate)[50]
[b]
LA[/b]: 50,000 (WSWS estimate[37] to 60,000 (GLW estimate) protesters

[b]San Fran[/b]: One BBC estimate put the crowd at 150,000 people,[53] while protest organisers and police agreed that the crowd count was 200,000 people.

[b]Seattle[/b]: On the day 50,000 people (GLW estimate)

[b]Chicago[/b]: where 10,000 people demonstrated (GLW estimate).[30]


[b]March 22–23, 2003[/b]

250,000 protesters demonstrated in [b]New York City[/b] according to the German Spiegel Online magazine.[/quote]


I don't recall any of these having mass media cheerleaders or many mainstream Democratic politicians joining the chorus. Nor do I recall them getting near the attention that these half-assed, half-sized conservative versions are. Its kinda cute when conservatives try to do something grass roots, but they're just not any good at it.

[IheartTesla]

I cant believe that loon Glenn Beck held his tea party at the Alamo. What a latte sipping surrender monkey.

[AndyP]

[quote name='EHK for Darwin' post='1756724' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.27'][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_protests_against_war_on_Iraq"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_protes...nst_war_on_Iraq[/url]



I don't recall any of these having mass media cheerleaders or many mainstream Democratic politicians joining the chorus. Nor do I recall them getting near the attention that these half-assed, half-sized conservative versions are. Its kinda cute when conservatives try to do something grass roots, but they're just not any good at it.[/quote]
All this from the guy who predicted what was it tens of tens and maybe over a thousand in a couple of cities. Admittedly the anti-war movement is a lot larger but it also has veterans with organizational skills from the Vietnam era. Also the Left's web presence is a lot better organized than the rights (see the last election). Oh and of course the Republicans are jumping in front, the last thing they need, is this movement going 3rd party which would pretty much be the death nail of the party. It is a boon to them if they gain control and a disaster if they don't, assuming this has any legs.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756723' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.26']The side that is already wining the battle for educated professionals now, the south. It has been winning that battle for the last 30 years or more. As far as the schools go my daughter was in one of the best school districts in Michigan when we lived there. When we moved to Texas she was behind the curb. After a struggle she is now making As, but in comparison Michigan schools were well slack.[/quote]

Yeah, no idea if their methodology is worth a damn, but...
[url="http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm"]http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm[/url]

New England OWNS the top 5. 6-10 has one entry from everywhere (south even gets one). And most of the south appears to be on the lower half. Mississipi, Alabama, Alaska (yes, we're gonna call that a southern state for our purposes.), Louisiana, and Georgia (all bottom ten) are REALLY dragging you guys down.

Kind of explains your anecdotal experience as well. Michigan is by far the lowest upper midwest state, while Texas is the definition of national mediocrity at 25. Now here's the real question...who gets the Southwest and the flyover (non-coastal) West?

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756738' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.42']All this from the guy who predicted what was it tens of tens and maybe over a thousand in a couple of cities. Admittedly the anti-war movement is a lot larger but it also has veterans with organizational skills from the Vietnam era. Also the Left's web presence is a lot better organized than the rights (see the last election). Oh and of course the Republicans are jumping in front, the last thing they need, is this movement going 3rd party which would pretty much be the death nail of the party. It is a boon to them if they gain control and a disaster if they don't, assuming this has any legs.[/quote]

Yet with all the institutional support one can ask for while still remaining a legitimate protest, they still managed numbers that are impressive only in comparison to their typical paltry past efforts. Yes, they exceeded my minimal expectations. I'll bake them cookies when I get a chance. But it still has the air of high-fiving someone for a record time in the Special Olympics. Yes! You set the record in the 100 meter dash for people with one leg (aka, past conservative protests). Kudos!

The organization and infrastructure you mention for the left? That's genuinely is grassroots. It was built grass roots. It's maintained grass roots. This might have been grassroots at one time, but it was quickly co-opted. Smart for Republican politicians whether it has legs or not. Really a no-lose for them getting involved.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756723' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.26']The side that is already wining the battle for educated professionals now, the south. It has been winning that battle for the last 30 years or more. As far as the schools go my daughter was in one of the best school districts in Michigan when we lived there. When we moved to Texas she was behind the curb. After a struggle she is now making As, but in comparison Michigan schools were well slack.[/quote]
Not that I want to get involved in this whole north verse south thing, but everything I have ever read and my knowledge at education is blinking at this. Do you have some statistical evidence to back this up? I know that if one gets a teaching degree in the Midwest they are pretty much able to have their pick of positions throughout the US and teachers typically want to come to the Midwest to work. While I like the great state of Michigan, using that as an example of the educational system as it exists in the Midwest is not truly representative. I also know that for innovation in learning one typically looks towards the Midwest and the North East.

[AndyP]

[quote name='EHK for Darwin' post='1756741' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.48']Yeah, no idea if their methodology is worth a damn, but...
[url="http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm"]http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm[/url]

New England OWNS the top 5. 6-10 has one entry from everywhere (south even gets one). And most of the south appears to be on the lower half. Mississipi, Alabama, Alaska (yes, we're gonna call that a southern state for our purposes.), Louisiana, and Georgia (all bottom ten) are REALLY dragging you guys down.

Kind of explains your anecdotal experience as well. Michigan is by far the lowest upper midwest state, while Texas is the definition of national mediocrity at 25. Now here's the real question...who gets the Southwest and the flyover (non-coastal) West?[/quote]
Well I assume you will be unwilling to claim CA (#47) NV(#48) AZ(#50) but we insist on you keeping Ohio(#34) WA(#33) Illinois (#35) and Oregon (#40), they are to far north of the Mason-Dixon for you to pawn their dumb asses off on us Mr Indiana (#24) :pirate: ;)

[RhaegarTar]

I just wish it wasn't so friggin hot in the South/West. Ugh. Tax slavery is almost worth it for New England's weather.

[The Marquis de Leech]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756688' date='Apr 16 2009, 14.52'](if conservatives and libertarians can't admit that Bush started this mess and made it worse with all the bailouts of the banks and all, then we are not being intellectually honest and don't deserve to be listened to).[/quote]

No, [b]Reagan[/b] started this mess.

[AndyP]

[quote name='EHK for Darwin' post='1756747' date='Apr 15 2009, 22.59']It's maintained grass roots.[/quote]
Really and how much money does "MOVEON" take from George Soros and how much will they get if they start saying things he doesn't like.

[quote]This might have been grassroots at one time, but it was quickly co-opted. Smart for Republican politicians whether it has legs or not. Really a no-lose for them getting involved.[/quote]
Unless the people in those crowds today decide that Republicans are part of the problem, then being in front means you get run over first. You know the Libertarian party might be something, except for the ideological rigidity and their organizational ineptitude.

RT
Spend a few days walking around a city like Houston in your shorts sleeves in January and then you won't miss NE's weather.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756761' date='Apr 15 2009, 23.12']Well I assume you will be unwilling to claim CA (#47) NV(#48) AZ(#50) but we insist on you keeping Ohio(#34) WA(#33) Illinois (#35) and Oregon (#40), they are to far north of the Mason-Dixon for you to pawn their dumb asses off on us Mr Indiana (#24) :pirate: ;)[/quote]

Mr. Indiana (#24) whooped the shit out of your paltry Texas. (#25) You like apples BITCH? :smoking:

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756761' date='Apr 15 2009, 21.12']Well I assume you will be unwilling to claim CA (#47)[/quote]
*sigh* Sounds about right. No one should have to claim California. We are a unique snowflake of duh.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='AndyP' post='1756780' date='Apr 15 2009, 23.38']Really and how much money does "MOVEON" take from George Soros and how much will they get if they start saying things he doesn't like.[/quote]

And George Soros represents the Democratic establishment how exactly? As silly as a grassroots billionaire sounds, that pretty much is what he is. His attacks are not directed by the Democrats. His message isn't crafted by the Dems. He's not beholden to the Democrats. He does his own thing. About all the Democrats have ever managed to do is get him (MoveOn) to hush once or twice. But just about every non-gun or non-abortion (gay marriage to the list? Maybe) conservative 527 is a fully owned and operated arm of the Republican Party. Maybe there are some other exception, but the general point holds true...Republicans do hierarchical, they don't really do grass roots. If they have a settled candidate, political insurgencies get snuffed cruelly and swiftly. Ask McCain. The last, major successful insurgency in the Republican party I can recall was Reagan.

[quote]Unless the people in those crowds today decide that Republicans are part of the problem, then being in front means you get run over first. You know the Libertarian party might be something, except for the ideological rigidity and their organizational ineptitude.[/quote]

They had their shot (Libs) with Ron Paul, who was Libertarian in everything but name. Result was alot of internet hype, and almost nothing at the polls. There's a chance they might assert more influence upon the basic Republican platform, but as a viable party on their own? No.

[quote]Spend a few days walking around a city like Houston in your shorts sleeves in January and then you won't miss NE's weather.[/quote]

I'd rather freeze my balls off then sweat like a pig. I can put on a jacket, but when I'm sweating profusely while standing around and desperately trying to inhale muggy, humid superheated air...it ain't fun.