Minigame 64.5: a very Supernatural minigame

[haLobEnder]

Firstly, we have no guarantees that this is an all roled game. You have pretty much just announced that you are either evil or roled by assuming it is. Well done! :-)

Oh really? I think you should read again how Aly announces role possibilities. It's the reason I made the suggestion in the first place.

I admit that the idea only works if this is an all roled game, but that's up to other people to make an educated guess based on the role they received.

Secondly, the names may at least hint as to what the powers are. Also, if we have a bunch of RIs and a bunch of roled innocents, you nicely corral the roled innocents into a nice slaughter house where they can be picked off one at a time. All people will do by revealing their role names is make sure that the killers know who is roled, and have a starting point to start speculating who's who.

Hinting is not the same as explicitly saying. People seem to think 'angel' lends itself to the healer role or so on, but I don't see it.

It's just one idea on how we could approach this game. Did I really expect anyone to take it seriously? Not really, but I tend to think information (of any kind) helps the innocents more than it hinders.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1.

12 players remain: Fireball, HaloBender, LCOTNW, Maester Luwin, Masonity, Mexal, MinaMartell, Piper, Slick Mongoose, TheMalcolm, TheManWho, Wiskeyjack.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or 6 to go to night.

2 votes for Slick Mongoose (Wiskeyjack, Masonity)

2 votes for TheManWho (Fireball, Mexal)

1 vote for Fireball (Piper)

1 vote for Piper (TheManWho)

1 vote for Wiskeyjack (Slick Mongoose)

5 players have not voted: HaloBender, LCOTNW, Maester Luwin, MinaMartell, TheMalcolm.

[Masonity]

Oh really? I think you should read again how Aly announces role possibilities. It's the reason I made the suggestion in the first place.

I admit that the idea only works if this is an all roled game, but that's up to other people to make an educated guess based on the role they received.

Hinting is not the same as explicitly saying. People seem to think 'angel' lends itself to the healer role or so on, but I don't see it.

It's just one idea on how we could approach this game. Did I really expect anyone to take it seriously? Not really, but I tend to think information (of any kind) helps the innocents more than it hinders.

You might encounter: demons, vampires, witches, ghosts, ghouls, werewolves, reapers, angels....and there might be a roleless innocent somewhere in there too ;)

I'll do my best on the balance, promise.

How does this give us a strong hint that it may be an all-roled game? If anything I'd say she originally wrote that up with no mind to what the actual roles would be, but as a nice piece of enticing flavour text.

Added to that, I really feel that the killers will benefit far more from information on what roles are in the game than we will. All we need is to give the killers a nice list of roled CI's to kill off.

[LCOTNW]

But this contradicts what you said ealier:

That's my main problem. If you just said "we should give strong players a pass", i'd disagree, but I wouldn't have a problem with you because of it. But when you contradict yourself like this, I find it suspicious.

How many games have you played, LC?

I think those 4 players will not be lynched today whether they are evil or not. I am moving on to other suspects until tomorrow. You want to make a case against one of them? Go for it.

My objection was that there was too much "I won't/can't be lynched on Day 1" chatter for my taste. It may be true, and I may choose to follow that with my Day 1 vote, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed or even jealous about the chatter.

What does it matter how many games I have played? I actually don't recall, but I think it is around a dozen.

[The Man Who]

What do you mean by a challenge with another player?

I'm less suspicious of LC, who is limiting his suspect list than TMW, who is trying very hard to make sure that it's as large as possible.

ETA: Slick, you make a good point. However, he's still limiting his suspect list. That's not something I normally associate with killers on day 1, especially when the people he's eliminating are solid players.

My suspect list is actually fairly small, you may be surprised to know. However, I haven't restricted candidacy for the suspect list. Which is sensible, because intentionally giving yourself blind spots is of no use.

I'm going home and I'll go into more depth when I get there.

[haLobEnder]

I don't know what the mafia statistics really mean. As I recall, I scored pretty high on the list of people with fewer than like 7 or 8 games, which is kind of silly from my POV. There are easily 15 players on this site that are better than me regardless of the number of starts. I think the mafia statistics will get better as we get more data in there.

I only brought that up as a joke. Anyone who knows how I play knows that it's a bit of an anomaly anyway :P

I know I don't deserve special treatment, just questioning people's logic in giving it to others.

I really hate how this whole topic is sort of taking away from case making itself however. I know I'm one to talk, but so far I haven't seen a case made that I can even somewhat get behind.

[Slick Mongoose]

I think those 4 players will not be lynched today whether they are evil or not. I am moving on to other suspects until tomorrow.

Well, they won't get lynched if you have that attitude. Until you make a case on them, how will you know? I'd feel a lot better about you if you looked for people you think look suspicious, rather than eliminating people because you don't think you can get them lynched.

My objection was that there was too much "I won't/can't be lynched on Day 1" chatter for my taste. It may be true, and I may choose to follow that with my Day 1 vote, but that doesn't mean I can't be annoyed or even jealous about the chatter.

So you have a problem with giving them a pass, enough to say "Let's rope those egos in just a little", but you actually do want to give them a pass, and don't want to rope in those egos at all?

What does it matter how many games I have played? I actually don't recall, but I think it is around a dozen.

Just curious. I had a decent idea of the experience levels of everyone else here but you.

[LCOTNW]

I only brought that up as a joke. Anyone who knows how I play knows that it's a bit of an anomaly anyway :P

I know I don't deserve special treatment, just questioning people's logic in giving it to others.

I really hate how this whole topic is sort of taking away from case making itself however. I know I'm one to talk, but so far I haven't seen a case made that I can even somewhat get behind.

I was annoyed with this tangent at first, but I am more satisfied with it now. Day 1 in an alted game is usually just slogging around in the dark, trying to alt-guess a little, recognizing that every case presented is crap. This is much nicer. This is my first alt-less game, and I am kind of enjoying not having to alt-guess, and I am satisfied with narrowing my suspect list to 5 possible targets on Day 1.

I am trying to imagine a scenario in which it would make sense from your point of view to suggest that we reveal the title description from our PM. This game does not have a CF, so clearly there must be a finder in the game. The evils will definitely be role-hunting tonight and pretty much every night. I am trying to decide how clever you are.

One thing I will give you is that, with Aly, Angels are definitely not CI. Just look at her Av :P

[The Man Who]

I think those 4 players will not be lynched today whether they are evil or not. I am moving on to other suspects until tomorrow. You want to make a case against one of them? Go for it.

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. I can understand how it is in that group's best interests to propagate this mindset but for anyone else to is... well lame really.

I don't know, maybe I'm just overly idealistic in envisioning a game where people judge other people on what they have done during the game, as opposed to what they have done in the past.

I still think my suspicion on Piper holds, and noone has managed to convince me otherwise, so I'm happy with my vote still. I still think he is the best option given the course of events today.

[The Man Who]

I was annoyed with this tangent at first, but I am more satisfied with it now. Day 1 in an alted game is usually just slogging around in the dark, trying to alt-guess a little, recognizing that every case presented is crap. This is much nicer. This is my first alt-less game, and I am kind of enjoying not having to alt-guess, and I am satisfied with narrowing my suspect list to 5 possible targets on Day 1.

I've also managed to reduce my suspect list.

But here's the really clever part: I've done it based on what people have done in this game, and not what they've done in previous games! Genius I think!

[Piper of Chaos]

Halo is now on my "not-to-lynch" list for reasons that I won't tell ya. :P

[Mexal]

I've also managed to reduce my suspect list.

But here's the really clever part: I've done it based on what people have done in this game, and not what they've done in previous games! Genius I think!

Ok. This is the 2nd time you've said you've narrowed it down. Who are your suspects and why?

[The Man Who]

Halo is now on my "not-to-lynch" list for reasons that I won't tell ya. :P

He's your symp? :eek:

[Whiskeyjack]

In that case, Slick seems like he's massively over compensating here, stretching for a serious case on day 1, and against one player who will almost certainly be healed if there is a healer.

I don't have a problem with Slick mentioning possible symp clues or his early vote on me. I can see why it was worth mentioning, from his perspective.

That said, I do agree that Mexal is much better than that when he's a symp. I've been a partnered symp with him in a past game, so I should know.

It's the kind of thing I can see a desperate killer trying.

My only question is why he'd be desperate enough to try that yet.

edit: Okay, probably a desperate symp more than killer. :-p

Huh? You've lost me here. You seriously think Slick was desperate that early in the game? And in his desperation, he chose to go after me?

Okay, so enlighten me. Why would he be desperate so early? And why would he go after me, rather than an easier target?

WJ's vote on me is probably serious, given that I had 1 post at the time he called me "under the radar".

My vote on you was a joke. I posted in all caps, and I accused you of being under the radar when the game had just barely started....not sure why you would consider that to be serious.

TMW, who is trying very hard to make sure that it's as large as possible.

Can you show some evidence of that?

[Masonity]

Huh? You've lost me here. You seriously think Slick was desperate that early in the game? And in his desperation, he chose to go after me?

Okay, so enlighten me. Why would he be desperate so early? And why would he go after me, rather than an easier target?

Thats the only bit that doesn't fit, and is why i don't have a strong serious vote on him. I'd probably rather see Halo go, but then at the same time I can't see a killer being that silly either, and would rather not symp hunt on day 1 when there are killers to be lynched.

[The Man Who]

Ok. This is the 2nd time you've said you've narrowed it down. Who are your suspects and why?

Top suspect:

Piper - Declared that we shouldn't bother considering him for a lynch.

Other suspects:

MaesterLuwin - backtracking a serious sounding vote as a non-vote.

Masonity - interactions following Slick's vote on WJ were very strange. It didn't quite add up, and there was a step in the logic that seemed missing (why someone would be desperate)

Also have gut scum reads on a couple of other people. Obviously being day 1, none of these cases are overwhelming, but they are my suspicions.

[Mexal]

Can you show some evidence of that?

He spent a lot time arguing about people not being lynchproof and that if they're scummy then he'll vote for him.

I guess this is one of the problems with unalted games, but my view is that it shouldn't matter. Yes, you may feel horrible if we lynch Malc day 1, but if it is the correct decision, we should do it anyway (I don't think we should lynch Malc). Similarly, I'm not going to let Piper or Whiskeyjack get away with stuff just because of who they are.

This could be Piper fake-symping or just being his usual self, but I don't like it, so I'm converting my joke vote on Piper to a serious one. It's clearly trying to keep attention away from himself, using WJ as cover.

There are a few other posts after this one that basically say the same thing.

It's not so much the content, but more so the implications. I understand the point of view. I don't find the need to argue it though. To me, it doesn't feel like an argument that an innocent needs to make. If they find someone guilty, they vote. They don't need to tell everyone over and over that it doesn't matter who they are.

[Whiskeyjack]

Thats the only bit that doesn't fit, and is why i don't have a strong serious vote on him.

So you're not actually accusing him of being a desperate FM/symp?

I'd probably rather see Halo go, but then at the same time I can't see a killer being that silly either, and would rather not symp hunt on day 1 when there are killers to be lynched.

So you'd prefer to vote for Halo over Slick, but you actually don't want to lynch either one. Is that right? If so, then who do you want to lynch?

[The Man Who]

He spent a lot time arguing about people not being lynchproof and that if they're scummy then he'll vote for him.

There are a few other posts after this one that basically say the same thing.

It's not so much the content, but more so the implications. I understand the point of view. I don't find the need to argue it though. To me, it doesn't feel like an argument that an innocent needs to make. If they find someone guilty, they vote. They don't need to tell everyone over and over that it doesn't matter who they are.

I think you've missed the point. The whole reasoning for my arguing is to back up why Piper is my top suspect. :unsure:

This isn't random abstract argumentation, this is basically arguing about my case on Piper. I thought that was evident.

[MaesterLuwin]

Halo and Piper both drew a lot of blatant attention to themselves early in the game. They're both on my radar.

Masonity also was very quick to forgive me for what amounts to being a newbie mistake. A killer would want to keep us incompetent newbies around, wouldn't they?