Minigame 64.5: a very Supernatural minigame

[Piper of Chaos]

I suppose Halo edited it already after seeng WJ quoted.

You suppose - but you don't know. Why should he edit it anyway?

[TheMalcolm]

You suppose - but you don't know. Why should he edit it anyway?

To make the joke more realistic?

[House Targaryen]

It is day 4.

10 players remain: Fireball, HaloBender, LCOTNW, Maester Luwin, Mexal, MinaMartell, Piper, Slick Mongoose, TheMalcolm, Wiskeyjack.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or 5 to go to night.

3 votes for Mexal (TheMalcolm, Wiskeyjack, Piper)

7 players have not voted: Fireball, HaloBender, LCOTNW, Maester Luwin, Mexal, MinaMartell, Slick Mongoose.

[Piper of Chaos]

To make the joke more realistic?

Sure. :rolleyes:

Anyway, if Halo and LCOTNW are indeed our two killers, we still have plenty of time to lynch them both. Before that, we have the time to lynch Mexal and one of Luwin/Slick. Fireball is the less likely option.

Points against Halo:

his suggestion of a full role reveal gave me the impression that he is roled. Why should he suggest something like that if he was RI? Now he claims to have no role, which I think is a blunt lie. More likely he is an evil player who is also roled. In that case he had nothing to loose by suggesting a full role reveal, and he could also check the reactions of the innocent players. Maybe the evil team is that powerful that he thought this could be an all-roled-game.

Since I don't think this is an evil mod game, there is no cult. Otherwise the mods would have announced it. That is why I have a hard time to believe that we have three such powerful innocent roles. One of them must be guilty. Right now it looks like it's LCOTNW (although I have no clue why an evil LCOTNW should claim healer on day 2 - he should now that he would be lynched if he doesn't die).

[Mexal]

It took me forever, but I think I see it. (Piper and WJ, as always, are two steps ahead of me, yet I feel the need to spell everything out.) I'm sorry for seeming to have belittled your Mafia skills before. You are very clever :).

So Piper has proven that you're not a genuine RI, but it doesn't take you long to catch on to the mass RI reveal going on. TMW looks lost and as if he's fishing for role tells, while everyone else proves their innocence through winks and nudges. Eventually, it's pretty obvious: the RIs recognize each other because they know they aren't called angels, or mummies, or werewolves, but plain old garden variety roleless innocents.

Now perhaps you and TMW have planned it together in the killer thread, or perhaps you're his symp giving him a subtle cue. Or perhaps you're both zombie ninja lover transvestite vampires, because that's entirely plausible in this game. Of course, claiming a role is dangerous when there might be counterclaims. "Fine," says TMW. "I'm...I'm also a roleless innocent."

You say the magic password. "What is your role description?"

"Why, a roleless innocent doesn't have a role description," answers TMW innocently.

You can quote this line for the rest of the game. The only problem is, people will see you've caught on several pages too late--at the point when you'd pretty much have to be a moron not to realize what we were getting at.

So then you make a big show of how out of the loop you were all game. I haven't been paying attention to all the RI talk! What was so special about Mina's post? What are you talking about? I'm just so busy I don't have time to read this game anymore! Of course I wouldn't bother to look at the post that would cause someone to unvote a player. I couldn't have caught on from the thread itself!

You even asked me to quote the case back to you (boy, did that backfire, because it only drew my attention to how scummy your behaviour had been). Then you play dumb. "Ohhhhh. That's what all the fuss is about. I didn't realize that Mina had claimed first. What a tragic misunderstanding." *sheds a single crystalline tear for fallen The Man Who*

Mexal, can you make a similar case discrediting any of the other RIs?

Tell me, guys. Is Mexal that devious, or have I just been playing WAY too long today? None of the other games I followed were this brain-breaking. Seriously, I'm taking a break now.

I really don't care if you're a symp or an FM or a godfather at this point. This game is supposed to have a weird set-up, anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if there are different factions that recruit amongst each other and try to get each other lynched. There might have been a small chance that TMW was innocent and you were setting him up, as you yourself tried to suggest before, or that you've been trying to get him lynched for your own reasons.

Hey Mina, this is what we call tunnel vision. You're concocting a massive conspiracy to fit your suspicions. It's actually quite entertaining. Back in Nam, WJ played me like a fiddle and I did this very thing with Piper and Jagged. I hounded Piper until he was lynched then made all these wonderful conspiracy theories on how Jagged and Piper were partners instead of looking at the guy who posted like twice a day and said nothing. It felt like shit when I lost.

Anyway, as for the no night kill, there is probably a cult out there. That's the only explanation I can think of. But if you still think there are FM, and you still believe I'm one of them (how you can think that, I have no idea...if you honestly believe I'm so stupid that I'll go after WJ twice and fail then fail again then I have no idea what to say).

And if there is a cult, completely ignoring people like Piper, WJ, Malc and LC will probably cost you guys the game. But lynch me, get it out of the way so I can go about my weekend and good luck. I don't have the energy nor the desire to try to fight again today when we have a few lynches left.

[TheMalcolm]

That is why I have a hard time to believe that we have three such powerful innocent roles. One of them must be guilty. Right now it looks like it's LCOTNW

If so, how do you explain lack of a kill for such a long time?

[Piper of Chaos]

If so, how do you explain lack of a kill for such a long time?

They withheld twice so tha LCOTNW could reveal healer?

But yes, you're right, it makes no sense. That doesn't change the fact that I still suspect Halo.

[Piper of Chaos]

Ok, I will be away for a longer time (8 hours or so).

[Mexal]

Oh screw it. I had a fantastic night out last night and I don't plan on doing anything for much of the day. I still need to recover. As a result, I'll help you guys out by analyzing well...everything. I'll do it in a series of posts though since reading one big post, well sucks.

Possibilities

I know this has been looked at by WJ already but I'm breaking it down again for my own sake.

1. The FM blow. They couldn't kill WJ nights 1 and 2 then withheld their kill on Night 3 or hit a hidden BP. For anyone who still thinks I'm a FM, I question your ability to play this game but that is besides the point. If there is a BP out there, please claim. The FM would already know who you are so at least this would give us a chance to see if this option is possible.

The likely hood of this being true is slim. With the threat of the healer, why go after WJ night 1? Fear maybe? Fine. That's some serious fear. Then, on N2, they go after WJ again after they failed the first night? It's possible but I do question any FM that would fail to use their brain enough to do that. I don't think this is what's going on.

2. The FM are dead and there is a limited cult. If the FM are dead, that means Masonity and TMW were the FM. That means you guys were so good you nailed them on N1 and N2 and my ability to symp was absolutely fucking terrible since that's the only way I could really be a symp. So TMW decided to kill WJ on N1 then tried again on N2. Then we lynched him on day 3 and now there was no kill on N3. This is possible.

But the game is still going on. So that means there has to be some other faction still playing. Of course, there could be 3 FM but then why would there be no kill last night with a finder being unprotected and any other slew of VPIs to choose from? No, I don't think there are 3 FM.

So if there isn't 3 FM, that means there has to be some form of a cult. No one has any anti-conversion roles (or they would have told us) so that means anyone is really a suspect. The most popular form of cults we've used are every other night conversions. There is also a possibility it's limited to 1 or 2 players.

We're on day 4, if they converted N1 and N3, there are potentially 3 members of the cult out there. If they only had 1 convert allowed, then there at most, 2 out there. We should probably assume 3 just to be safe.

3. There are no FM and there is just a cult. I have no idea how this would be balanced unless the cult got a lot of conversions or were able to kill. In this situation, I really have no idea as I've never played in a game with just a cult. I don't know how it could be.

So out of these 3 options that I see, the most likely is probably 2.

Next post from me will be a defensive post because I still have no idea why I'm going to get lynched and how I fit within any of these situations. After that, I'll start analyzing who could be cult.

[Mina Martell]

Comments:

1-In hindsight, I probably should have toned down the conspiracy theory on Mexal a little. The way I embellished it just made me look crazy. (Not that I'm NOT crazy or anything.)

It seems like the case Mexal has been making in his defence is this:

-Entirely by coincidence, he independently realized that The Man Who could prove that he was a roleless innocent by asking him what his role description was.

-He was so convinced by TMW's response that he was desperate to stop the lynch.

-He wouldn't have asked me to quote the case back to him unless he'd genuinely not been paying attention to the thread.

-After reading my recap, he suddenly realized what he'd missed.

Am I misinterpreting anything?

Except I don't buy it. Both Mexal's idea to test TMW (which just happened to be the same as Piper's) and his asking me to feed the case back to him seem contrived. I know he's been busy, but couldn't he have scrolled back a couple of pages the moment he saw something was going on? What I meant by asking if Mexal was that devious was this: if he was a killer, would he ask me to quote the case back to him in order to make his story look convincing? My opinion hasn't changed.

2-If there is a cult, it would explain why Mexal's behaviour has been a bit off on Day Two. (It would mean he might have actually known RIs had no particular role description from his PM, but as there are too many roleless innocents at this point, the odds are he might have actually had a role.) Whiskeyjack's reactions to no NK seem very genuine, but you never know :|. Malc hasn't said enough for me to judge either way; his insistence that there is definitely no cult is a tiny bit suspicious. I could believe that Piper was converted Night Two. For one thing, he was on the Maester Luwin bandwagon. For another, I don't buy his suspicion of Halo and LCOTNW today. Halo's joke doesn't prove he's innocent, but I really doubt, "So who do we kill tonight?" is the kind of thing anyone would post near the end of the night in a killer thread, let alone in the main thread by accident. In Piper's favour, however, yesterday, he called Mexal on not having understood Piper's reason to remove his vote on me. However, I won't consider cults for today.

3-Maester Luwin, what were your motives for coming forward with your role?

4-I'd really like to believe we have a finder, but Slick's eagerness for LCOTNW to sacrifice himself does not sound like he has the innocents' best interests at heart.

----

Either way, I have work all day today, and I'm going out afterward, so I probably won't be back in time for the lynch. I'll vote for Mexal, although this game is so messed up that he may very well be innocent. He probably wants to be lynched at this point, anyway.

ETA: Cross-posted again! Not sure what to make of Mexal's recent post.

[Mexal]

Lets take the options and see where I fit within because I am baffled.

1. I'm a FM. I attempt to kill WJ on N1 (which I would never do and he knows it). I attempt to kill him again on N2 because he's a threat to my partner TMW. Then on N3, I decide to leave the finder alive and orchestrate all of this. Well, that doesn't fit with the pure stupidity of everything I've done so far since well, I decided to make my partner and I as visible as possible by not lynching him.

Does anyone actually see this as even remotely possible?

2. I'm a symp to the FM that would be TMW and Masonity (since well, they're the only ones dead). This could make sense but then, I'm not a threat to anyone as my master's are dead and there is still some faction out there.

I'm not a symp at all but I'm the original cultist. So why the fuck would I try to save TMW and bring all sorts of negative attention to myself when I could have just hammered him and moved on? Doesn't sound like a real good way for me to win but hey, I'm rusty right? :rolleyes:

3. I'm the original cultist and TMW was a convert. Ok. So I tried to save my partner and single handedly bring our whole faction out into the open and the forefront of the lynch list. Does anyone think I am that stupid? Since when am I afraid to sacrifice partners in order to keep myself looking good, especially if I can continue to convert?

TMW was the original cultist and I'm a convert. Same thing. Why would I do that?

I'm still having a real hard time figuring out how you guys believe I fit into ANY scenario where I'm guilty unless you honestly believe me to be one of the worst players to play this game since that's what it would require.

ETA: Can you fuckers stop voting for me please. I'm trying to write a slew of posts to help you guys out and here I am getting lynched.

[Mexal]

Comments:

1-In hindsight, I probably should have toned down the conspiracy theory on Mexal a little. The way I embellished it just made me look crazy. (Not that I'm NOT crazy or anything.)

It seems like the case Mexal has been making in his defence is this:

-Entirely by coincidence, he independently realized that The Man Who could prove that he was a roleless innocent by asking him what his role description was.

-He was so convinced by TMW's response that he was desperate to stop the lynch.

-He wouldn't have asked me to quote the case back to him unless he'd genuinely not been paying attention to the thread.

-After reading my recap, he suddenly realized what he'd missed.

Am I misinterpreting anything?

Except I don't buy it. Both Mexal's idea to test TMW (which just happened to be the same as Piper's) and his asking me to feed the case back to him seem contrived. I know he's been busy, but couldn't he have scrolled back a couple of pages the moment he saw something was going on? What I meant by asking if Mexal was that devious was this: if he was a killer, would he ask me to quote the case back to him in order to make his story look convincing? My opinion hasn't changed.

Can you for once please think of what my end goal would be? What do I gain by suddenly doing this and conveniently doing that? You can't tell me where I fit in as a guilty, just that I'm guilty because you believe that I'm contriving everything I say. But sorry Mina, it doesn't work that way. You can think I'm contriving my words but you have to be able to point out why. And you can't. You just think I'm guilty but have no idea how and won't see that. So if you can't figure out how I'm guilty, why don't you look at the actions and sequence of events as if I'm actually an innocent where everything I have said has happened exactly like that. Is that so hard to imagine or are you so jaded and convinced that despite the fact that you have no idea how I'm guilty or what my end goal could be, that you're still willing to push and push the same shit over and over again without looking at the other side of things.

2-If there is a cult, it would explain why Mexal's behaviour has been a bit off on Day Two. (It would mean he might have actually known RIs had no particular role description from his PM, but as there are too many roleless innocents at this point, the odds are he might have actually had a role.) Whiskeyjack's reactions to no NK seem very genuine, but you never know :|. Malc hasn't said enough for me to judge either way; his insistence that there is definitely no cult is a tiny bit suspicious. I could believe that Piper was converted Night Two. For one thing, he was on the Maester Luwin bandwagon. For another, I don't buy his suspicion of Halo and LCOTNW today. Halo's joke doesn't prove he's innocent, but I really doubt, "So who do we kill tonight?" is the kind of thing anyone would post near the end of the night in a killer thread, let alone in the main thread by accident. In Piper's favour, however, yesterday, he called Mexal on not having understood Piper's reason to remove his vote on me. However, I won't consider cults for today.

How does this explain me being off? I got converted then decided to out myself? Why? What did I gain other than a shitload of attention when I had none previously?

Why won't you consider cults? Does FM make sense with 3 straight nights of no night kills? If so, please explain to me how.

My next post will be a bit, my wrists are starting to hurt.

[House Targaryen]

Maester Luwin is modkilled for absence.

It is day 4.

9 players remain: Fireball, HaloBender, LCOTNW, Mexal, MinaMartell, Piper, Slick Mongoose, TheMalcolm, Wiskeyjack.

5 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

4 votes for Mexal (TheMalcolm, Wiskeyjack, Piper, MinaMartell)

5 players have not voted: Fireball, HaloBender, LCOTNW, Mexal, Slick Mongoose.

[Mina Martell]

Your analysis makes a lot of sense. (I didn't see your post when I voted for you, Mexal.)

I'll admit you probably would have been a bit more subtle had you been an FM. Of course, the one-FM, one recruiter scenario that WJ promoted could mean TMW was the only killer and you had to protect him. It's possible Team Evil has the choice between either killing or recruiting. Maybe one person was recruited on the first night, then another person targeted WJ and tried to kill him?

But I'll admit that people always trying to kill WJ and never trying to recruit him seems odd. Someone look at the difference between his posts Day One and Day Two onward to see if it's possible he's been recruited.

...Ugh. This is confusing me. Either Team Evil has possibly the most brilliant plan of all time (there could easily be a WJ-LCOTNW-Slick Mongoose triad), or I really think there is something utterly broken about the set-up. I'm starting to get very, very pissed off.

However, I have to get ready for work now, and my brother will probably pounce on the free computer and not give me the chance to get on before I leave, so I'm going to leave my vote on you just in case it's needed for the lynch later on. I think it's possible you're actually innocent at this point, Mexal, but if lynching you doesn't end the game, at least we'll know to look in another direction.

[Mina Martell]

Maester Luwin is modkilled for absence.

Well.

I see only one vote is needed for the lynch, so I'll remove vote because I doubt you'll have problems getting rid of Mexal without me, and because I might miss some new developments.

[Mexal]

Well.

I see only one vote is needed for the lynch, so I'll remove vote because I doubt you'll have problems getting rid of Mexal without me, and because I might miss some new developments.

Thank you.

Ok, an episode of Psych is over, my wrist feels better, time to do some investigating.

[Mexal]

Time to break down cultists.

Original Cultist

Possibilities include:

- Fireball

- Me (for sake of completeness)

- TMW

- TheMalc

- Halo

1. Fireball - Look who I'm back to. He was one of the last to claim RI. He didn't participate in the discussion at the end of Day 2 (I don't think anyway, I'll go back and check when I'm done thinking this through to see if any of this is actually true. I can't be bothered until I have my thoughts out). He hardly gives his opinions on players. He's not normally around. And we've given him several free passes. If we were following the CB and he was assuming there was FM, he'd fit the profile I think.

2. Mexal - Didn't participate in the Angels vs RI discussion. Asked Piper why he removed his vote. If I was the OC, I highly doubt I would have done some of the things I've done this game but I mean, I'll let you decide. Do my actions make sense with the goal of winning the game as a cultist?

3. TMW - I obviously think he's innocent. But again, for sake of completeness, I'm including him. He wasn't very out there on D1. Just defended himself on Day 2. But I still come back to the RI name and well, I still believe it considering no one else said it in game, just tried to infer it from a variety of cryptic messages.

4. Malc - I don't remember if it was him or Piper who was the first to notice Mina's posts. I thought it was Piper and it was Malc saying he caught on. It might have been the other way around and if it was, then Piper should be here instead of Malc. Again, I'll check that later when I have the energy to scroll through pages of posts. Anyway, he could have caught on to what Piper was saying and just played along. I think this is highly unlikely though. The easy answer (and prob true) is he knew exactly what was going on because he is an RI.

5. Halo - Pretended to be roled. Actually RI. Didn't participate in the Angels discussion. Came out after everyone and declared RI. Hasn't really been posting true suspects, just kind of defending himself and posting here or there. The biggest problem I have with Halo being the OC is his post about role names. I just can't see him being that devious or ballsy to make a post like that if he was the OC. He also brought up the possibility of a cult.

6. Whiskeyjack - Low profile on day 1. But I mean, he pushed Masonity over Fireball. Why would he do that? Maybe he thought Masonity was a FM and not Fireball and just wanted to get one out of the way first? I don't know. It doesn't make sense really from a game play standpoint as OC. He also cross-posted with myself and TMW when discussing the RI. Of course he claims anyone could have figured it out (which isn't really true) but still. I think he's a possibility but less likely than some of the others.

I didn't include Piper or Mina because of the Angels discussion as they were definitely RIs. I didn't include LC cause he's the healer though I guess that could be false due to there probably not being FM but I don't think so. I didn't include Slick because of the finder stuff. He could be lying but why say Luwin was innocent?

That's all I got really. I think most likely is Fireball and secondly, as loath as I am to admit it, TMW.

My brain is starting to hurt. I'll try to look at likely converts but I need to watch another episode of Psych and make some lunch so it'll be a bit.

[LCOTNW]

Maester Luwin is modkilled for absence.

Great. In all honesty, I hope you didn't quit but rather were unable to get back for some reason. It is the weekend, which might explain a change in people's availability to play the game. I know that it always affects me. 24 hours can be tight.

Well, Targ responded to my request for further clarification of whether my night action would affect the cult and she says that it would stop any evil action at night. So, either she is being intentionally ambiguous in order to f*ck with me, or there really is a cult and I can only prevent a further conversion by sacrificing myself. I can't quote you my own role PM, but I am allowed to paraphrase it. All I can say is that the word used to describe the action that I can prevent definitely made me think of NK attempts, not conversions. Theoretically, the word used could be stretched to include any night action by an evil, but I still really doubt it.

If there is a cult, it is extremely unlikely that we will win at this point. I'm not saying that it is impossible that we have a cult, but I am saying 1) I still think it is unlikely for all the prior stated reasons, and 2) I don't think I have the energy to figure out a cult with zero information. It would pretty much be a crap shoot unless there is a miracle hidden role at this point.

I would prefer to think that there are independent killing factions, like maybe two competing SK roles that kill on alternating nights. Between the 2 heals and the 2 lynches, maybe we took out one SK, and the other SK kills on even nights?

[Whiskeyjack]

Sorry guys, I really don't have any time today. I'd love to help break things down further, but I won't be able to contribute for at least 8 hours, probably longer.

Well, Targ responded to my request for further clarification of whether my night action would affect the cult and she says that it would stop any evil action at night.

Just want to point out that this means I couldn't have been converted (or killed) on night 1 or 2. Unless people believe LC is lying and we are on an evil team together.

[Mexal]

Sorry guys, I really don't have any time today. I'd love to help break things down further, but I won't be able to contribute for at least 8 hours, probably longer.

Just want to point out that this means I couldn't have been converted (or killed) on night 1 or 2. Unless people believe LC is lying and we are on an evil team together.

That's annoying. I believe LC and don't think you were converted or killed. But you not being around blows.