Serious Callers Only Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I can't resist.Even in narrative, that you so admire (so do i to be honest), games are still an inferior art form. I don't mind the narrative sparseness of M&M6 because, there are not many glaringly strange things about the characters interactions, simply because there aren't any! I can deal with a strange sci-fi/fantasy story, par-de-course in this forum really, but the artificialism that most games inject into the more developed characters interactions annoys. I didn't mind PS:T because it wasn't too obvious, but in more recent games...I'm going to post a link to what is essencialy the 4chan of computer RPG's, and no it's not NMA, but much worse, a breeding ground of bitter gamers, and such they have a tendency to rant on and on about this, and there is a topic starting right now about this. At least until it degenerates into furry porn images.http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35846 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 There are games that are not RPGs you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 My opinion is worth more than yoursYou know, you want to lead off with a snarky comment, don't expect anyone to be kind in return.Go buy a DS and buy Dark Spire. You might surprise yourself by having fun with a game that has more than four colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcibiades Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Whenever i see this thread, it reminds me of the ads for Evony online that say (next to breasts, naturally): start your journey, milord. Or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Speaking of evony online, they have a competition for a real life queen...The Horror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Everything made in games now was done better before (and no graphics don't count). blah blah geneforge 5!!! Huzzah! How ahrdcore am I suckas!Oh dear, someones appears a bit snarky because no one makes the boring obsessive item collection and stat fest games they so loved any more. You're absolutely correct in saying that no one makes games as 'good' as they used to.Probably a little something to do with no one buying games that were 'good' in that way because they simply wern't that much fun to most people. If they were people would still make em all that time.To a small % of gamers having to fill in the gargantuan plot gaps of might and magic was fun, as was slogging through repetitive dungeons collecting up slightly better versions of whatever weapons you're using searching for the magic whatever. Most of us got over it though when we realised that was all they had to offer and looked for something a little more interesting, fun and stimulating.It's funny because I've had a bit of a spirited argument with someone advocating on rails JRPGs recently because they tell a narrative better than the more off rails western ones. Now someones going on about how more bare bones RPGs are inherently better because when there is a narrative characters fail to live up to their expectations.Sounds to me like those two options are simply the safer more boring choices for a storyteller to choose on an interactive medium.How dull to crave such things.Edit - Your not just a bitter ex- mac gamer are you? The geneforge reference brings that to mind is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Wolf Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Been playing the Secret of Monkey Island (SE) on 360. While its fun to switch back and forth between the original and the updated version...just to compare between the two...the current version is the tits compared to the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brys Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Because the T3 levels are an order of magnitude smaller and more claustrophobic than t1. Furthermore, thief 1 levels usually have a lot more ways to approach a level, where t3 is much more railroaded, with very few exceptions. Also, the fact that the AI "pauses" when you shift from area to area was a real atmosphere breaker for me. Lastly, in T3 you can pretty much spot every piece of loot the second you enter a room, whereas T1 makes you search for the loot (T2 is even worse/better, with a few levels having nothing more than tiny coins scattered about, almost impossible to see). T3 also has a lot fewer missions, which leads to the next problem: T1 & 2 games have at least 4/5 missions before the storyline proper kicks of, giving you a variety of setups to go through (the bonehoard being an example), where t3 jumps straight to the storyline. On a smaller note, the mission briefings in thief 1 & 2 are something of an icon of the series, and the Thief 3 mission briefings just don't measure up, no matter how good Stephen Russell's voice acting.Money in thief 3 has little to no value beyond buying climbing gloves, because you can find every item in the city; inventory carries over; and in the end you just ignore the various shops. Then of course there is that subjective value: thief 1 (and to a lesser extent, t2) levels have a certain ... charm that I just don't find in the thief 3 levels. Take for example the Bonehoard: those traps and the maze-like quality of the level make it fantastic to me. As to the map, I agree it is little more than a placeholder, but thief 1 is also an exploration game: you'll have to do a lot of exploration and scouting without a useful map. It makes it more tense the first time you play a map, it was done intentional, and you may or may not enjoy it. A suggestion: when you're playing a new map, have a pen and paper next to you and make a sketch about the area you're in: it's basic geometry, the number of exits and one or two things that stand out: a painting, table, ... Enjoy that feeling, you'll only experience it once.One thing I will admit thief 3 does a LOT better (apart from the oft-described Cradle), though, is the lockpicking mechanic. It does add a lot of tension when you're faced with a hard lock and there is a patrol coming any second now...I agree that the levels are a lot larger in Thief 1, but they're just as linear - there are usually only two ways to get to something for most of the missions I've played so far. Every so often, there's an area with more variety, but usually there's not too much of a choice. As for the loot, yes, it's a bit better in Thief 1, not highlighting it, but it can be incredibly annoying when you can't tell if a goblet is a piece of loot or just a random item. I've picked them up so many times and then got annoyed at having to make a lot of noise putting it back down. Perhaps a better system would be a compromise, like the glow surrounding the item, but only emerging when you have the item highlighted?I kind of like that the inventory carries over in Thief 3 - you're use of items feels much more strategic - you have to think about whether you really need to use an item, rather than just making some areas ridiculously easy because you've got loads of items left over and coming near to the end of the mission.I'm getting more used to the map now - on some of the levels I found it really annoying, other times it worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emberling Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 It's funny because I've had a bit of a spirited argument with someone advocating on rails JRPGs recently because they tell a narrative better than the more off rails western ones.Advocating is a strong word. More like taking offense to the idea that one style is inherently superior to another - which again applies here as SCO claims his pre-Fallout-style RPGs are the superior and all else is crap.Different styles of games are different. Gasp! Some people prefer some styles, other people prefer other styles. Gasp! Given a Final Fantasy, a Baldur's Gate, and a Might and Magic game, I'd enjoy the first most, mackaxx the second, and SCO the third.What I don't understand is why anyone could possibly believe that any of these people are incorrect for making that choice. Despite the RPG moniker the games are for all intents and purposes in completely different styles and genres.There is perhaps some legitimate room for bitterness on the part of SCO because his kind of game isn't really made anymore, but that doesn't extend to a license to trash all the advancements made in game design in the past 20 years just because it didn't evolve in the direction he wanted.Anyway, Shadow Complex is fuckawesome and I can't figure out why the hell Dissidia seems to be getting such good press. It's certainly innovative, and I find the fact that something so out-there can grow in the guise of a fanservice fighter (and actually be well liked) to be encouraging for the future of the industry, but it just feels clunky as all hell to play. It's complicated and I suck at it and they start you off with only a few options for damaging moves which seems to make hitting anyone with anything mostly a big chore so I don't enjoy the 'practice and improve and get better' phase so I just... don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I agree that the levels are a lot larger in Thief 1, but they're just as linear - there are usually only two ways to get to something for most of the missions I've played so far. Every so often, there's an area with more variety, but usually there's not too much of a choice.You must be missing stuff then. There's always multiple staircases or crawl-ways or dumbwaiters or some such to move around the house/buklding/tomb/etc. You can tackle the map in any order you feel like too.I kind of like that the inventory carries over in Thief 3 - you're use of items feels much more strategic - you have to think about whether you really need to use an item, rather than just making some areas ridiculously easy because you've got loads of items left over and coming near to the end of the mission.But that's EXACTLY what T3 does. By making the inventory carry over, by the end of the game your overloaded with items, trivializing stuff.The limietd inventory of T1 and T2 is to force you to actually USE your items that level. Buy as much as you can/need for the job and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrellius Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Speaking of evony online, they have a competition for a real life queen...The HorrorBride with blades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnt hound Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Bought Shadow Complex. Haven't gotten very far yet, but it looks great. Bought the second DLC for Mass Effect, but my 360 had some real issues with the disc. Will try again later.Played Halo 3 this weekend. Got the Moongoose Mowdown achievement today. Haven't gotten it before. Really surprised :P Just took me, what, 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Advocating is a strong word. More like taking offense to the idea that one style is inherently superior to another - which again applies here as SCO claims his pre-Fallout-style RPGs are the superior and all else is crap.I thought advocating was a pretty inauspcious word myself. I didn't see it going along the lines of an inherent supriority, more it was about some very specific aspects of the game types being done better in one format than in the other. Anyways as for this stuff...Different styles of games are different. Gasp! Some people prefer some styles, other people prefer other styles. Gasp! Given a Final Fantasy, a Baldur's Gate, and a Might and Magic game, I'd enjoy the first most, mackaxx the second, and SCO the third.What I don't understand is why anyone could possibly believe that any of these people are incorrect for making that choice. Despite the RPG moniker the games are for all intents and purposes in completely different styles and genres.There is perhaps some legitimate room for bitterness on the part of SCO because his kind of game isn't really made anymore, but that doesn't extend to a license to trash all the advancements made in game design in the past 20 years just because it didn't evolve in the direction he wanted.I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigTEA Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Can anyone tell me what is a good Baseball game for either the PS3 or the 360? I have been playing MLB 2k8 from when it came out, but after playing Earl Weaver Baseball at work (yeah, I know..) I realize what a shit game it really is. The only reason I keep playing it is to see that Ryan Braun gets his 600th career home run before retiring at age 38.Still playing Fallout 3. Still not sick of it, even after 48 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Oh dear, someones appears a bit snarky because no one makes the boring obsessive item collection and stat fest games they so loved any more. You're absolutely correct in saying that no one makes games as 'good' as they used to.....To a small % of gamers having to fill in the gargantuan plot gaps of might and magic was fun, as was slogging through repetitive dungeons collecting up slightly better versions of whatever weapons you're using searching for the magic whatever. Most of us got over it though when we realised that was all they had to offer and looked for something a little more interesting, fun and stimulating....Edit - Your not just a bitter ex- mac gamer are you? The geneforge reference brings that to mind is all.1 & 2) Actually you seem to prefer the current narrative games. How? The shit pile that is fallout 3 that somehow (i assume by bribery since i assume the jury is actually not retarded) won the best writing prize at some game conference?A shit game that has dialog like this in the ending (just a small almost random example), not to mention the almost non-existent roleplay. Oh yes, i suppose I'm old fashioned then.WAKE THE FUCK UP.3) Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 1 & 2) Actually you seem to prefer the current narrative games. How? The shit pile that is fallout 3 that somehow (i assume by bribery since i assume the jury is actually not retarded) the best writing prize at some game conference?I'm not Mackaxx, but I doubt he'd hold up Fallout 3 as a supreme example of excellent storytelling modern games. It's a fun game, but quite light in story or meaningful roleplaying, much more focussed on developing your character's stats and exploring various dungeons. And killing things. In fact, from the preferences you've expressed in this and the other thread I would have thought it to be right up your alley, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Sigh. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 1 & 2) Actually you seem to prefer the current narrative games. How? The shit pile that is fallout 3 that somehow (i assume by bribery since i assume the jury is actually not retarded) won the best writing prize at some game conference?Erm, for the M&M6 lover surely fallout 3 is just what the doctor ordered? Light on story, heavy on exploring a tonne of random locations. Maybe you would have preferred it with no dialog at all eh?A shit game that has dialog like this in the ending (just a small almost random example),So, um, don't like tongue in cheek then? It's not 'RPG serious business' if that's what you were after. Way to criticise something for it doesn't even try to be. Maybe if it involver thongor the barbarian and his might thews it would have been ok.WAKE THE FUCK UP.Of course, now I see it, my poor little brain has been bamboozled by the gaming industry. Thank you for helping me see the light. Maybe you can tell me to Harden the fuck up as well, that should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm actually not a simpleton, and thus i prefer something done well, to nothing, to something done bad. That is my scale of values.Tongue in cheek. Don't you mean Bethesda buttcrack? Are you sure?Regarding 3# no i don't think you have been brainwashed. I have come to the conclusion you always had bad taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackaxx Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 I'm actually not a simpleton, and thus i prefer something done well, to nothing, to something done bad. That is my scale of values.So you'd be asserting that M&M6 had no story? That would be incorrect. It has a terribly shitty story.Why did it get a pass?For this crap?With the problem of the corrupt Guardian, Sheltem, finally dealt with in Might and Magic V: Darkside of Xeen, the 1500-year war between the Ancients and a Devil-like race of alien beings, the Kreegans, spills over into nearby planets. One of these is the world of Enroth, on which a continent-nation of the same name lies. Seven years after the events of Heroes of Might and Magic II: The Succession Wars, on a day later to be known as the Night of Shooting Stars, meteor-like spaceships fall from the Void, infested with Kreegans. The king of Enroth, Roland Ironfist, departs north with an army seeking to attack the devil-like creatures, but he is betrayed by a traitorous air mage named Sulman. Roland's forces are ambushed by an enormous Kreegan army, and he, his court wizard Tanir, and the noble Sir Ragnar are captured, while the rest of the Enrothian forces are decimated. The Kreegan King Xenofex secretly establishes the Temple of Baa, a doomsday cult dedicated to removing the Ironfist dynasty from power. With their King missing and his young son, Prince Nicolai, left to rule the kingdom alongside Regent Wilbur Humphrey, the people of Enroth begin to fear that the Ironfists have lost the "Mandate of Heaven" (the divine right to rule). The four player characters are from the town of Sweet Water, which is attacked and overwhelmed by the Kreegan invaders.Might and Magic VI was the first game in the series to use three-dimensional full motion video at key points to advance the storyline.Falagar, a powerful warlock, intervenes and teleports them to safety, where he trains them until they are ready to take on the Devils. They discover Sulman's corpse in an abandoned goblin camp with a letter addressed to him from Xenofex, and present it to Regent Humphrey in Castle Ironfist. Humphrey rewards them and asks their help in seeking out King Roland. Before battling the Kreegans, they require the guidance of the Oracle of Enroth in the city of Freehaven, governed by the members of the Enrothian Council. However, Nicolai escapes from Ironfist to follow the party but runs off to the Circus of the Sun, and must be found before Ironfist opens its gates again. Even with Humphrey's blessing, Slicker Silvertongue (ooh, is he a baddy you think), his delegate, persists in refusing them entry to the Oracle. Humphrey suggests his mind is addled and instructs the party to try and heal him, but, cornered, Slickertongue reveals himself as the High Priest of Baa and disappears, cursing the Ironfists. The remaining delegates grant the heroes entry to the Oracle, who is actually a sentient computer named Melian (fallout 3 anyone? One sucks one doesn't apparently), created by the Ancients. Melian, damaged by Roland's usurper brother, Archibald Ironfist, during the Succession Wars, instructs the heroes to recover its memory crystals. The party recovers two crystals from Castles Darkmoor and Alamos. In Castle Kriegspire they obtain the third crystal, along with Roland's journal, which explains that Sir Ragnar died from his wounds while the Kreegans transported Roland and Tanir elsewhere to be ransomed or tortured, as confirmed in Heroes of Might and Magic III.[3]Attacking the worshippers of Baa in their main temple on Hermit's Isle, the heroes obtain the last crystal, killing Silvertongue in the process. The Oracle, restored, explains the backstory of the Ancient-Kreegan war, and with a Control Cube from the Tomb of VARN, permits them to retrieve anti-Kreegan blasters from the Planetary Control Center. Before they can destroy the Kreegan, the heroes require a spell capable of preventing their apocalyptic last resort plans, and only Archibald knows of one.[4] Nicolai agrees to release Archibald from his stone curse with Tanir's bell, and Archibald gratefully hands them the Ritual of the Void before teleporting away. Finally, the player characters return to their ruined hometown of Sweetwater and attack The Hive, the largest of the meteorite-like spaceships the Kreegans arrived in. Killing the Kreegan Queen, they destroy The Hive's reactor core and conjure the Ritual of the Void, eliminating The Hive and the Kreegans on the continent while sparing the land from the reactor's wave of destruction. The epilogue shows the heroes knighted and congratulated by Nicolai and Humphrey in a ceremony at Ironfist, with Archibald viewing the scene from afar through a crystal ball, sardonically thanking them for saving his kingdom.[5]Should THIS have got a writing award? I personally think its a bit of fun tongue in cheek fantasy...It also touted these but failed to deliver themComplex design elements such as the inclusion of rival adventuring parties and a quest system involving complicated alliances with nobles and other factions were announced, but did not make appearances in the final gameWhere is the indignant attitude in regard to this?Tongue in cheek. Don't you mean Bethesda buttcrack? Are you sure?Given my hostility toward the entire elder scrolls series this is kind of amusing.I'm very sure, yep.Regarding 3# no i don't think you have been brainwashed. I have come to the conclusion you always had bad taste.Anyone reading M&M6's plot can judge for themselves who has the taste issues.Shall we break out geneforge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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