What art thou playing milord? Ye Olde Thread 3.0

[TheBigTEA]

I loved BG, was smitten with BG2. Was not too keen on Morrowind, only made it through about 15 hours of Oblivion before giving it up.

I finished Mass Effect but did not think THAT much of it. It was OK, though I will get and play the second one.

I LOVE Fallout 3, though I think that mostly is due to the setting and V.A.T.S.

I loved KOTOR and KOTOR 2, even if it was broken. Being a Jedi is just badass.

I am really looking forward to Dragon Age and Star Wars: the Old Republic.

[kuroishi]

double post, sorry. Is it possible to suppress posts in this forum ?

[kuroishi]

ETA:

The story is more interesting, the characters get more development and feel more "alive". Oh and you get to kill dragons, beholders, mind flayers, greater demons and, in ToB, even Demogorgon.

Ah, well, different standards I guess.

I much prefered the BG1 NPCs (Ah, Coran... And then Xan, Xzar...).

The only character I liked in BG2 (apart for the ones coming back) was Yoshimo (may his soul rot in hell...).

Damn, I think I still haven't forgiven that. I dual-classed him to warrior as soon as he entered my party, and he only got his thief levels back when... arrgh. Because of that I spent the whole game without a thief (except for useless Imoen on the looooong trip back to mainland).

And as for the different monsters... That's part of what I preferred in BG1 in fact : it had much more a down-to-earth and low-level aspect which gave it the feeling of "pen and paper" RPG to me.

[Inigima]

I've been meaning to have a crack at two worlds actually. I'm told that once you get past it's genuinly irritatingly problems theres an OK adventure tucked away under there somewhere? True?

Two Worlds is the best atrocious game ever. You need to go in knowing that absolutely everything about it is horrendously done. The story, the writing, the art, and especially the voice acting are trash. Knowing that and expecting it to be a campy nonsense game, and learning to laugh at its horribleness, it is a fucking blast.

[Zoë Sumra]

I was drawn in from the moment I left the census office.

Same here, and I once spent about five or six hours trying and failing to make BGTutu work. Admittedly this latter part may have been due to my disc drives, which have, shall we say, a personality (the specific problem was that when Tutu was installed, my computer did not recognise that the BG disc was in the drive. When Tutu wasn't installed, no problem reading the same disc. The mind boggles).

But I love both games. Bearing in mind that my PC is ancient, so cannot play, for instance, KOTOR and Mass Effect, Morrowind and Baldur's Gate both feature in my top five favourite games list.

I think that comparing them, waving their (admitted) faults at each other, is kind of like the JRPG versus WRPG argument, except with two completely different WRPGs. I don't play Morrowind for character, because the character doesn't develop; the character is static, for the character is me, and there are no well-realized party members to provide a distraction from this. I don't play it for a tight plot either. I don't play Baldur's Gate to be creeped out of my skin by the gameworld, or when looking for the visceral satisfaction of a first-person fight. They're just different, and that's good, for they're both classics. :)

[Brys]

This is ludicrous. I think it's fairly established that the 3 fantasy RPGs that top all others without any doubt are BG, Morrowind (or the Elder Scrolls as a whole) and Planescape Torment. (I mentioned Fantasy RPG,so I wouldn't have to factor in Fallout and KOTOR ;) )

Graphically, Morrowind was quite great, and the level of freedom and size of the world were as great. Storywise, nothing can come close to Planescape Torment. BG basically has bits of all - good story, good characters, wide world.

And I really think it's stupid to bash one so that one can prop another up.

Really well said. Morrowind's my favourite of the three, but that's because I prefer a first person perspective and its non-linearity, but I still enjoy BG2 and PS:T a lot. Whether you like MW, or BG2 or whatever depends on what you're looking for in a game - MW for me was great because I could come up with my own objectives, roleplay my character much more, and didn't care too much about the main quest. I probably spent 40 hours or so before even trying to advance past the first two quests in the main storyline. With Planescape, though, the story was the entire reason to play it - so it had to be good, and it was. BG2 as you say was a mix of them both - a bit more story driven than Morrowind, less so than Planescape, and it had a better story, writing and characters to go with it, but at the same time you can't really just do what you want - it's still a D&D game. The main incentives in the game are advancing the plot, rather than your character, which is fine, but quite a different style to the Elder Scrolls game.

And let's not forget that running around "low level areas" (fighting respawning enemies...) for hours just to make up for crappy initial stats is not a terribly fun thing to do.

Really? I don't think I ever did that in Morrowind. At least not intentionally. Increasing my skills mainly came as a byproduct of doing quests for various factions. Or from travelling on foot from one area to another. But then I was always aiming to get to another place, or I was more generally exploring - I actually barely had to think about levelling up in Morrowind - it was pretty smooth and natural. If you did focus on improving your skills quickly and levelling up, it wouldn't take more than a few hours to become incredibly powerful in the game though, as long as you got some decent equipment soon afterwards. By the time you hit level 15, pretty much any fight is quite easy (except those in the expansion packs), and even by level 7 or 8 you're pretty powerful, which wouldn't take more than a few hours of focused grinding.

Anyway, I've been playing Third Age: Total War now, and I'm impressed by just how good it is. It's got me playing total war again after having become disillusioned with it after discovering paradox games.

[Jon AS]

the specific problem was that when Tutu was installed, my computer did not recognise that the BG disc was in the drive. When Tutu wasn't installed, no problem reading the same disc. The mind boggles

You know, I think getting rid of the CD check is not illegal in Europe. Just in case you ever decide to give it another try.

Bearing in mind that my PC is ancient, so cannot play, for instance, KOTOR and Mass Effect, Morrowind and Baldur's Gate both feature in my top five favourite games list.

I don't know the requirements of the top of my head, but I'm almost certain that if you can run Morrowind, you should be able to play KOTOR as well.

ETA:

Really? I don't think I ever did that in Morrowind.

It was just a response to the suggestion that it was possible to "fix" a suboptimal character in Morrowind.

[Zoë Sumra]

I actually barely had to think about levelling up in Morrowind - it was pretty smooth and natural. If you did focus on improving your skills quickly and levelling up, it wouldn't take more than a few hours to become incredibly powerful in the game though, as long as you got some decent equipment soon afterwards.

Ditto, except that I tend to do a little statistical pornography with my minor skills when I'm about to level up.

And it's apparently possible to complete the main quest of Morrowind in seven minutes.

Jon - thanks for the tip on the CD check; I may have to look into that. :)

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Um, isn't that morrowind in a nutshell? I had to give it at least 5 hours before things got even slightly interesting. Comparatively the BG2 dungeon was over in a snap.

I really disagree with you on Morrowind, but now that I've thought about it you usually have a pretty good take on games, and I think we shared a similar view of Gothic 3 when it came out and everyone panned it. I can't get my BG1 to install with tutu, so I am just going to jump to BG2 and give it a try.

[Mackaxx]

Unfortunately with gothic 3 the learning curve had a lot to do with working out which animals you couldn't fight because combat with them was basically bugged and resulted in your arse being kicked. Armour also played way less of a role in this game than the previous ones. I liked in gothic 1 and 2 how once you were in certain kit you were virtually untouchable by smaller and less well armed enemies, not the case in 3.

[Relic]

got Arkham Asylum coming in the mail. This game looks pretty bad ass.

[Brys]

Playing Thief: The Dark Project at the moment and enjoying it quite a bit. Just about to start the Haunted Cathedral Level. But I don't see why a lot of people say that it was so much better than Thief 3. Sure, Thief 3 could have done without a lot of the loading screens, but the gameplay in the two is pretty similar (with Deadly Shadows actually better in some areas) - I don't get why it was called a dumbed down version for the consoles at all. I've enjoyed the straightforward theft missions a lot more than the zombie levels. They need to make these places more distinctive! There were huge areas that looked almost identical, so trying to find the right way was pretty much trial and error, especially given how poor the map is. Anyway, good game, but it seems to me that Thief 3 was a decent evolution of the series from the original, not a step backwards (especially in story/background terms - the Dark Project story so far has been pretty mediocre).

[Inigima]

New Professor Layton game out in NA today. Picked it up, starting out.

[Shryke]

Playing Thief: The Dark Project at the moment and enjoying it quite a bit. Just about to start the Haunted Cathedral Level. But I don't see why a lot of people say that it was so much better than Thief 3. Sure, Thief 3 could have done without a lot of the loading screens, but the gameplay in the two is pretty similar (with Deadly Shadows actually better in some areas) - I don't get why it was called a dumbed down version for the consoles at all. I've enjoyed the straightforward theft missions a lot more than the zombie levels. They need to make these places more distinctive! There were huge areas that looked almost identical, so trying to find the right way was pretty much trial and error, especially given how poor the map is. Anyway, good game, but it seems to me that Thief 3 was a decent evolution of the series from the original, not a step backwards (especially in story/background terms - the Dark Project story so far has been pretty mediocre).

You have no taste. The story in Thief 1 is the best of the series. It starts slow, but ramps up.

The levels are SUPPOSED to be big and sprawly and easy to get lost in. It's not supposed to be a linear corridor like Thief 3. Most of the missions in Thief 1 are pretty free-form and approachable from any angle. That's what makes it great. "Here's an abandoned tomb. Rob it.". There's also tons of little nooks and crannies.

[Werthead]

Nearly finished KotOR 2. Oddly, it hasn't aged very well at all. I actually enjoyed KotOR 1 much more the second time around, and the sequel much less. Odd.

One thing that is good which I'd forgotten is that KotOR2 gives you prestige classes, so you can continue gaining EXP after Level 20, which was something that was quite annoying about the first one.

[Jon AS]

Nearly finished KotOR 2. Oddly, it hasn't aged very well at all.

Really? In how far?

One thing that is good which I'd forgotten is that KotOR2 gives you prestige classes, so you can continue gaining EXP after Level 20, which was something that was quite annoying about the first one.

One of the things about KOTOR that I really appreciated was that it very clearly been playtested and balanced in such a way that you hit level 20 somewhere towards the very end of the game, while the KOTOR2 designers clearly didn't have any time to do this and just set the level cap at some utopian level (40?) and forgot about it.

BTW, the pen & paper Star Wars D20 rules both games were (loosely) based on were capped at 20. Even Darth Vader and the Emperor didn't have more levels.

[Brys]

You have no taste. The story in Thief 1 is the best of the series. It starts slow, but ramps up.

The levels are SUPPOSED to be big and sprawly and easy to get lost in. It's not supposed to be a linear corridor like Thief 3. Most of the missions in Thief 1 are pretty free-form and approachable from any angle. That's what makes it great. "Here's an abandoned tomb. Rob it.". There's also tons of little nooks and crannies.

Maybe the story gets a lot better later on then - I am only 5 missions into the game. Sometimes the free-form nature of the levels works really well - especially for all of the mansion-type levels - but for the Bonehoard level, it was just annoying. Everywhere looked the same, and there were very few places with loot in it, and that level didn't really seem to be much about stealth - you could outrun all the zombies and burricks, and there were rarely routes which meant that you could avoid it. The mines/prison level was similar, but a bit better once you got to the prison, but by that part it was pretty linear as there was only one way to open the cells.

Thief 3 was hardly a linear corridor though - there was still quite a bit of freedom, the levels were just a bit smaller (and had annoying loads in the middle of them).

[Serious Callers Only]

The story doesn't really get better in thief. The core of the game is its approach to levels, and that is what the fans dislike about thief 3. Remember water kills.

Anyway, been playing might and magic VI. Sweet Jesus this is some devious spelunking. Worse (?) than this, only daggerfall in my experience. I must go back and forward and play the rest of this series.

Games like this (thief, daggerfall, M&M, hell real rpgs) won't come again.

The mainstream wouldn't tolerate them.

[Jon AS]

Games like this (thief, daggerfall, M&M, hell real rpgs) won't come again.

How do you define "real rpgs"? Also, Bethesda is still making games that are essentially like Daggerfall, aren't they?

[Werthead]

Considering Might & Magic VI contains absolutely zero roleplaying and next to no characters (aside from NPC shopkeepers and the odd person who gives you quests) at all, I am also curious as to how it's 'real roleplaying' unless you mean it's 'real tons of grinding, levelling and killing absolutely everything in sight', which is the very antithesis of 'real roleplaying' to most people.

I enjoyed M&M6 and played it to completion, but that was because it was literally the first RPG I fired up after getting my very first PC in 1998. Before that the height of RPG tecnology was Eye of the Beholder II or Captive on the Amiga, so naturally M&M6 with its giganormous game world, vast surface levels, almost endless number of huge dungeons and its SF-meets-fantasy gameplay seemed astonishing.

The problem was that it came out just a few months ahead of BG, and was arguably already seriously outmoded by both Fallouts. Compared to those games, M&M6 is a hollow and lifeless shell of a world. I tried playing it again a couple of years back and it has dated into unplayability. Definitely a decent game back at the time, but seriously outstripped by dozens of other titles since.

Although shooting dragons out of the sky with laser cannons was quite cool back in the day.

How do you define "real rpgs"? Also, Bethesda is still making games that are essentially like Daggerfall, aren't they?

They've never made a game as big as Daggerfall since, although that is because Daggerfall was procedurally generated, whilst everything in Morrowind, Oblivion and FO3 was designed and put there by hand. They've also never made a game as hideously bugged as Daggerfall since, which is a good thing.

A couple of things they do need to work on are being able to walk into cities without them loading in a different map. IIRC, that didn't happen in Daggerfall and I'm puzzled why 12 years on they're doing it in their modern games. Especially annoying in Oblivion when you have to leave your horse outside the city gates and then spend half an hour humping across the capital just to get somewhere if you haven't been there before (and thus can't fast-travel). Open Cities does kind of fix it, but it's a bit flaky as mods go.