Frog Eater Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Umm...well then it is a good thing no one is proposing to take cars away from wealthy enthusiasts, isn't it?I was only using his absurd scenario to answer him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max the Mostly Mediocre Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 But, come on, the people who make $30,000 - $75,000, but get some miraculous deductions for student loan interest or mortgage interest or their 3 kids, and so end up paying zero?How many of those people are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sariel Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 And we wonder why the right screams SOCIALISM!your opinion is great if you are the "needy" family. Sure sucks if you are the hard working car enthusiast who has devoted his life to his prized car collection, huh? Just gonna take his things and "spread the wealth" huh? AWESOME! :thumbsdown:Main Entry: so·cial·ism Pronunciation: \ˈsÅ-shÉ™-ËŒli-zÉ™m\Function: noun Date: 18371 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thank you, this plus your earlier answer to Shryke has basically answered my question, and I agree that if there are people making $30,000-$75,000 a year and not paying tax then there is probably a problem with the system. Though I am aware that federal tax makes up a smaller percentage of overall tax in America than it does in Australia. If I could get away with not paying any federal income tax, I'd be giggling (well, I would be next year anyway. In the interests of full disclosure I should admit that I'm a student just now and paying very little tax anyway :P).I make $30,000 - $75,000 a year and pay plenty of federal income tax, I must be doing something wrong. :dunce: I should probably figure out how to take advantage of some of these deduction things. I really am not very good with money. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Security Squish Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Is that your withholding, 14th, or from your return? Many people withhold at "single and zero", and then get all the money back after they file.The only other way in which I can imagine you're in that range and paying 13% in FIT is if you are single, no kids, no student loan interest to deduct, and live in an apartment. :) But I would imagine that what you are paying (if it is paying and not just withholding) is somewhere around the minimum that I would ideally want to be paid by all who are in that range - you shouldn't be able to entirely escape FIT because you have a house with a mortgage rather than an apartment.Oh, I think you just pointed out my problem for me. I contibute fully to America, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrostar Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I guess I'm equally screwed, even though I'm married, because I don't have kids either. Of course, having a kid is fantastically expensive, and I'm pretty sure I'm financially better off not having one (just thinking of the cost of diapers, you know), but that could just be me...I guess I should have been more fiscally responsible and got student loans or something rather than go to grad school for something that was funded so that I had a stipend and didn't end up with debt? That way I'd be paying less in taxes and be better off financially.... yeah, I'm sure that's how it works. ;) Same thing with my wife's med school debt. More would be better?I guess I'm contributing fully to the US as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellis Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I guess I'm contributing fully to the US as well.Ditto. Actually, I get something like 20% withheld off the bat bc i'm a non-citizen and they don't trust me not to bugger off at will. (of course my employment and almost all my savings/assets are in the US so that's very unlikely). It's been years since I got a refund, but probably bc it just gets shuffled back to state taxes or taxes on FIT on investment income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartTesla Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 For non-citizens it is a bit worse since Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid is withheld from your paycheck after you have been paying taxes for 5 yrs or so. And presuming all these programs remain solvent long enough for us to potentially reap the benefits, non-citizens still cant get those benefits (I presume). Another added incentive for me to become a citizen I guess. Although 20% of taxes seems a bit excessive, Bellis. Assuming your incomes is somewhat commensurate with mine as a post-doc, are you sure of that number? I just checked my last paycheck and the FIT deduction is slightly less than 10%. If they are deducting 20% from yours and you fall in the 10-15% tax bracket you should almost certainly be getting a federal tax return.Edit: I am contributing fully to America too, you ingrates! Now fix me a road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14th Dragon Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think we need a support group, since clearly there are plenty of us around making midling money but unable to get out of paying taxes. (This is despite my expert tax professional). We clearly are a sorry lot. I also ran the numbes post house purchase, and I am reall not getting a big break, it goes from 13% to something around 9%. So still not getting out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellis Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Although 20% of taxes seems a bit excessive, Bellis. Assuming your incomes is somewhat commensurate with mine as a post-doc, are you sure of that number? I just checked my last paycheck and the FIT deduction is slightly less than 10%. If they are deducting 20% from yours and you fall in the 10-15% tax bracket you should almost certainly be getting a federal tax return.Maybe not anymore, you're right. I know I was getting 20% withheld while in grad school, though I did get quite a refund back. Not being eligible for the standard deduction for the first 5 years on an F1, I paid significantly more in taxes than your average citizen of the same income and conditions. But don't get me started on this topic... :tantrum: ... even a few years and one presidential administration later, it's still enough to make my blood boil. <calm thoughts>I think we need a support group, since clearly there are plenty of us around making midling money but unable to get out of paying taxes. (This is despite my expert tax professional). We clearly are a sorry lot.Clearly, the solution is to hire Chataya to do our taxes for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartTesla Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh yeah, you were a Canadian citizen. Fortunately, India and the US had a tax treaty that allowed F1 students to claim about $4-5000 as a standard deduction which offset the other standard deduction not allowed. Surprising that Canada didnt have a similar treaty. Maybe you need to blame your PM :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 To further hijack the thread about American politics to talk about non-Americans, Wisconsin continues to deny standard deduction for non-U.S. citizens regardless of how long you've spent in the country, or in the state, when it comes to state income tax. This is not reduced deduction. This is no deduction, at all. Foreigners living in Wisconsin also don't get the credit that renters get (based off of property tax of the rental unit). Since I didn't have to file taxes (income too low) when I was undergraduate in Georgia, I don't know how wide-spread this situation is amongst states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 tying the exercise of constituional and statutory rights to the payment of taxes is more or less the worst argument in the history of law, both in terms of the constitution & statute, and in terms of sense & decency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 And we wonder why the right screams SOCIALISM!your opinion is great if you are the "needy" family. Sure sucks if you are the hard working car enthusiast who has devoted his life to his prized car collection, huh? Just gonna take his things and "spread the wealth" huh? AWESOME! :thumbsdown:Hard working? Yes, because someone who owns 50 car is surely hard working and not more likely someone whose great-grandfather worked hard and they haven't done jack shit in their life. Or someone who has a ton of money thanks to the incredibly moronic systems in our country that rewards individuals hundreds of millions of dollars to act in front of a camera or play a game.And if someone devotes their life to collecting cars, rather than trying to do something good with their money, then that person sucks at life. It's their right to blow their wealth any way they wish, but if you have wealth you should feel fucking obliged to help out those who don't. I'm in the $35,000 to $75,000 range and I pay the hell out of some taxes. I'm willing to pay more if it means that more people have a chance to live as comfortably as I do. It's not socialism, it's called being a decent fucking human being.The only thing absurd here is that you, like way too many people in this country, obviously don't know what SOCIALISM! is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14th Dragon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Clearly, the solution is to hire Chataya to do our taxes for us.Somehow I doubt we could afford her. :( tying the exercise of constituional and statutory rights to the payment of taxes is more or less the worst argument in the history of law, both in terms of the constitution & statute, and in terms of sense & decency.Huh? Who is tying any of those things together. The tax debate was on the abilty to pay for any new federal programs, which by neccesity would need more tax income to cover them and the nature of FIT for middle income workers.Unless you want to argue deductions are a right, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Who is tying any of those things together14--the comment seemed appropriate based on the threadjackery above, whereby folks were discussing the juxtaposition of tax contributions in the absence of the rights of citizenship.you want to argue deductions are a rightit's fairly self-evident that deductions are rights--they are essentially defenses to levied taxation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still think it makes more sense to eliminate all credits and deductions lower all tax rates comensurately and use the tax code to raise revenue not set social policy.For the record I'm at the upper end of the income group Chataya was discussing, I have two children and a mortgage, My wife and I pay plenty in income taxes. In fact last April, rather than putting replacement windows in my home and helping the environment (and my power bill) I got to stroke a check to the IRS. Gosh, it made me feel good to contribute my "Fair Share." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14th Dragon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still think it makes more sense to eliminate all credits and deductions lower all tax rates comensurately and use the tax code to raise revenue not set social policy.For the record I'm at the upper end of the income group Chataya was discussing, I have two children and a mortgage, My wife and I pay plenty in income taxes. In fact last April, rather than putting replacement windows in my home and helping the environment (and my power bill) I got to stroke a check to the IRS. Gosh, it made me feel good to contribute my "Fair Share."Eh, I would agree in principle, except for the fact that once you make everything simply to raise revenue then the government loses one of its tools in being able to move a domestic agenda. Now you might think this is a good thing, but it could be a set back. The tax laws are one of the very few carrots the government can use, otherwise it is all stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Ted Kennedy is dead :( RIP, and thanks for everything.http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...ttCf6QD9AAIBJ00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrostar Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Ted Kennedy is dead :( RIP, and thanks for everything.http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...ttCf6QD9AAIBJ00I guess it had to happen sooner or later, but damn. This is still devastating news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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