American Politics XIV

[Watcher]

Maybe not crimes but work conditions and eating habits and so on and so forth. A jump from 2 to 6 is significant. I have to disagree.

That makes it official, you're now listed in my books of idiots.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

I have no idea what that post is supposed to say.

Also: Seems like he hadn´t watched TDS after all as I meant Elizabeth McCaughey.

[Aemon Stark]

Maybe not crimes but work conditions and eating habits and so on and so forth. A jump from 2 to 6 is significant. I have to disagree.

Well, those numbers reflect the mortality per 1,000 live births. Since there about 4 million babies born in the US every year, that difference between 2 and 6 is some 16,000 dead babies.

I'm sure their parents would regard such numbers as "significant".

As for the numbers question, I'm quite sure that the US government budget for health care is nowhere near $4.4 trillion each year.

[Aemon Stark]

Why not look at www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget and find total U.S. GDP at 14,515 billion total budget for Health and Human Services at 4,424 billion and tell me what percentage of GDP that comes out to be. Instead of going with WHO, who also will you that the US have the highest mortality rate but don't you it's due to fact of automobile accidents and military deaths. Numbers the WHO have is the amount of total health expenditure not just public option. They include fundings and grants that government gives out for research. Talk about distorting facts.

Well, if you want to go by those numbers, the percentage is about 30% or twice the numbers I quoted. That's absolutely wrong, of course, and most emphatically does not help your case.

Your distrust of the valid statistics provided for free by a reputable international organization is terribly quaint. My numbers (or rather the WHO's) are correct and completely valid.

[TrueMetis]

Because HR 3200 is Universal Healthcare and we are discussing public sector health care not private sector. Because how much patients are willing to pay is their buisness. If you want to say that Americans pay one of the highest costs for healthcare in the world, I'd agree. But I also believe that we receive the best care there is.

Tell that to the families of the thousands of people who die a year because no one will give them insurance and they can't afford to pay for healthcare. These are people who in any other 1st world countries and some 3rd world countries SOME FUCKING THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES would get the care they need. As far as I'm concerned until America can give everyone the healthcare they deserve It's one of the worst countries in the world and people like you don't count as human.

[SamTheSlayer]

Tell that to the families of the thousands of people who die a year because no one will give them insurance and they can't afford to pay for healthcare. These are people who in any other 1st world countries and some 3rd world countries SOME FUCKING THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES would get the care they need. As far as I'm concerned until America can give everyone the healthcare they deserve It's one of the worst countries in the world and people like you don't count as human.

You are never denied healthcare in a life and death situation in American hospitals. If no one gives them insurance then you qualify for medicare.

[SamTheSlayer]

Well, those numbers reflect the mortality per 1,000 live births. Since there about 4 million babies born in the US every year, that difference between 2 and 6 is some 16,000 dead babies.

I'm sure their parents would regard such numbers as "significant".

As for the numbers question, I'm quite sure that the US government budget for health care is nowhere near $4.4 trillion each year.

In that sense every life is significant but is it a significant enough gap to drastically change our system. No it's 4,424 millions of dollars my typo.

[SamTheSlayer]

That makes it official, you're now listed in my books of idiots.

What makes it official? Specifically.

[ljkeane]

No it's 4,424 millions of dollars my typo.

I can guarantee it's not that either.

[TrueMetis]

You are never denied healthcare in a life and death situation in American hospitals. If no one gives them insurance then you qualify for medicare.

Medicare is only for those 65 and over you mean Medicaid, if everyone who couldn't get normal insurance was qualified for Medicaid there wouldn't be 47 million un-insured in America. Life and Death situations doesn't cover everything if you have been stabbed or shot then your fine but what about the guy who need's bypass surgery if he hasn't got insurance he's not getting it then he's gonna die.

[SamTheSlayer]

I can guarantee it's not that either.

This is only Health and Human Services not including any VA programs.

[SamTheSlayer]

Medicare is only for those 65 and over you mean Medicaid, if everyone who couldn't get normal insurance was qualified for Medicaid there wouldn't be 47 million un-insured in America. Life and Death situations doesn't cover everything if you have been stabbed or shot then your fine but what about the guy who need's bypass surgery if he hasn't got insurance he's not getting it then he's gonna die.

Many of the 47 million chose not to have insurance. Yes it's medicaid. If his life is on the line at the hospital then under law they have to treat you although not for free. They will bill you later.

[SamTheSlayer]

No one is being denied health care, just health insurance.

[SamTheSlayer]

It is true that emergency rooms are required to provide stabilizing care. The second sentence is absurd. I think people that have filed for bankruptcy would really like to know why nobody told them about that entitlement to Medicare.

Because your annual income is not below $10,000 and you can afford your own plan. Medicaid agencies are one of the most lenient government agencies around. If you truly cannot afford it, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to get Medicaid even if you make more than $10,000.

[ljkeane]

This is only Health and Human Services not including any VA programs.

The US spends in excess of $2 trillion a year on healthcare and the US government spends something like 45% of that so there's no way government spending on healthcare even excluding VA programs is $4.424 billion.

[TrueMetis]

Because your annual income is not below $10,000 and you can afford your own plan. Medicaid agencies are one of the most lenient government agencies around. If you truly cannot afford it, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to get Medicaid even if you make more than $10,000.

The Average Spending for health insurance is $20000 a year the Median is $15000 take your pick. if your not makeing more than $50000 more than 30-40 percent of your income (Depending on whether you look at median or average) is going to health insurance.

[SamTheSlayer]

The US spends in excess of $2 trillion a year on healthcare and the US government spends something like 45% of that so there's no way government spending on healthcare even excluding VA programs is $4.424 billion.

Health and Human Services are only Medicaid, Medicare, and SCHIP programs. Government also buy insurance from company such as Tricare to supplement their own programs. That's why Congressmen and such are not on Medicaid or Medicare. But if we are talking about public options then Medicaid, Medicare, and SCHIP is what we need to worry about because they are for the public.

[SamTheSlayer]

The Average Spending for health insurance is $20000 a year the Median is $15000 take your pick. if your not makeing more than $50000 more than 30-40 percent of your income (Depending on whether you look at median or average) is going to health insurance.

Then it's up to you to decide what health is worth to you. I think insurance is over priced but we live in a capitalistic society and supply and demand aught to alter the price not government. The biggest problem is that insurance companies are selling most of their plans to employers not consumers. If health insurance becomes more like life or auto insurance then it can become much more affordable in my opinion.

[SamTheSlayer]

Why do you think you are making points when you post? If you mean that no one is being turned away from the ER if their life is in danger, then you're right in practice. No one ever said otherwise though yet you act like you've just enlightened everybody.

You also just admitted that you meant Medicaid and not Medicare. Now it seems that you are implying that everyone who does not have insurance qualifies for Medicaid if they need to go to the ER. Is this your stance? Let's compare the two statements below:

Even if you know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid (and nobody here has any confidence that you do), you still seem to suggest that these programs combine to provide coverage for the 47 million that are uncovered. It's true that there are some people in the 47 million that could decide to buy insurance (although usually it's hardly a "decision" since it would be so hard to afford). But you have suggested that all of these people are entitled to Medicare/Medicaid. Again, it would be awesome if someone could inform them of this.

Then visit one of these offices and you'll find that I'm not completely off base here. Especially if you have children.

[TrueMetis]

Then it's up to you to decide what health is worth to you. I think insurance is over priced but we live in a capitalistic society and supply and demand aught to alter the price not government. The biggest problem is that insurance companies are selling most of their plans to employers not consumers. If health insurance becomes more like life or auto insurance then it can become much more affordable in my opinion.

I don't have to decide how much my health is worth I live in Canada. Anywhere I go in Canada if I get sick all i have to do is go to the hospital and it's dealt with and geuss what, I won't have to declare myself bankrupt to pay for it because of our UHC (oh no evil socialism).

You claim Canada and the european countries with UHC or whatever system they use is Socialist/Communist in which case I hope you have never went to public school (Doubt you went to school at all) that you've never called the police or fire department and that you are trying to get the army disbanded because those are all socialist programs.

You live in as much of an Capitalistic society as any that is America is capitalist with socialist leanings difference between America and the rest of us is we can admit it.