American Politics 16

[Tempra]

CNN

Reaction to this should be interesting.

Ah, if you disagree with Bush, you're unAmerican. If you disagree with Obama, you're a racist.

politics as usual.

Can we finally lock the loon up in an old folks home or at the very least strip him of his US passport?

[TrackerNeil]

Ah, if you disagree with Bush, you're unAmerican. If you disagree with Obama, you're a racist.

politics as usual.

Can we finally lock the loon up in an old folks home or at the very least strip him of his US passport?

I don't know...I find Carter intelligent and his comments worth hearing. And I too wonder if a white president would have received some of the right-wing vitriol that's gone Obama's way. Some of this stuff is just way, way over the line...hell, even Bill Clinton wasn't called a liar before a joint session of Congress.

[Maltaran]

strip him of his US passport?

I believe the Supreme Court has defined this as cruel and unusual punishment.

[alguien]

I don't know...I find Carter intelligent and his comments worth hearing. And I too wonder if a white president would have received some of the right-wing vitriol that's gone Obama's way. Some of this stuff is just way, way over the line...hell, even Bill Clinton wasn't called a liar before a joint session of Congress.

Yeah, while I acknowledge the possibility of using the charge "racist" to deflect political criticism, I've yet to see this take place in the Obama administration. In fact, the Right has been far more publicized throwing the racist accusation around at the left than vice versa.

I believe there is an undercurrent of racism in some of the Teabaggers. The fact that the head of the movement accuses Obama of being a "Indonesian Muslim turned Welfare thug" in his own blog is telling, to say the least. To ignore the racist undercurrent or create a false equivalency with the "criticism is unamerican" tactics of the former administration is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.

I'm glad President Carter is forcing people to face some uncomfortable truths. Though I doubt many will.

[Tempra]

I don't know...I find Carter intelligent and his comments worth hearing. And I too wonder if a white president would have received some of the right-wing vitriol that's gone Obama's way. Some of this stuff is just way, way over the line...hell, even Bill Clinton wasn't called a liar before a joint session of Congress.

Each President faces their own unique criticism. It is hard to say that Obama has come close, let alone surpassed, the level of vitriol that has been aimed at Clinton or Bush. Heck, most people on this board cannot even speak coherently about President Bush because of uncontrollable bush hate. The same can be said of republican's hatred for clinton in the 90s (and now).

When Obama's knee-jerk dissenters become more than a few whacko birthers, let me know.

[DanteGabriel]

Each President faces their own unique criticism. It is hard to say that Obama has come close, let alone surpassed, the level of vitriol that has been aimed at Clinton or Bush. Heck, most people on this board cannot even speak coherently about President Bush because of uncontrollable bush hate. The same can be said of republican's hatred for clinton in the 90s (and now).

The flaw in setting up some kind of Bush equivalency to try and excuse the unreasoning wackos who hate Obama is that Bush really was an apocalyptically bad President, and most of us leftists didn't acquire Bush Derangement Syndrome until after he'd turned 9/11 into a cudgel to beat his political opponents with, and illegally invaded Iraq with the shittiest of plans.

The essential truth that all you right-wing apologists never seem to be able to keep hold of for very long is that we deranged Bush-haters were fucking right about him.

However, Obama Derangement Syndrome is fully alive in this country among the right wing, and as far as I can tell he has done a fucking lot less than Bush to earn the ire of these moonbats.

[Tempra]

The flaw in setting up some kind of Bush equivalency to try and excuse the unreasoning wackos who hate Obama is that Bush really was an apocalyptically bad President, and most of us leftists didn't acquire Bush Derangement Syndrome until after he'd turned 9/11 into a cudgel to beat his political opponents with, and illegally invaded Iraq with the shittiest of plans.

The essential truth that all you right-wing apologists never seem to be able to keep hold of for very long is that we deranged Bush-haters were fucking right about him.

However, Obama Derangement Syndrome is fully alive in this country among the right wing, and as far as I can tell he has done a fucking lot less than Bush to earn the ire of these moonbats.

Not to derail the thread into another thread about Bush, but the uncontrollably hatred of Bush began when he was 'selected' by the Supreme Court (and intensified as he pulled us out of Kyoto, etc). It briefly went away after 9/11 but came back in roar when Iraq was brought up.

In any event, I don't think the level of Obama hate has topped the level either Clinton or Bush felt. It is very simplistic and destructive of the democratic process for Carter to accuse people who disagree with Obama as racists. Way to make contentious issues that much more contentious!

[DanteGabriel]

Not to derail the thread into another thread about Bush, but the uncontrollably hatred of Bush began when he was 'selected' by the Supreme Court (and intensified as he pulled us out of Kyoto, etc). It briefly went away after 9/11 but came back in roar when Iraq was brought up.

And we were still right about Bush.

Here's a question then... If another attack like 9/11 occurred, do you think Obama's detractors would rally around their President in a time of national crisis like most Democrats did?

[Annelise]

I don't know...I find Carter intelligent and his comments worth hearing. And I too wonder if a white president would have received some of the right-wing vitriol that's gone Obama's way. Some of this stuff is just way, way over the line...hell, even Bill Clinton wasn't called a liar before a joint session of Congress.

Carter clearly seems to think that racism, that an African American is unqualified to be President, is what tipped Wilson into his outburst. Who can say?

I believe Carter isn't wrong when he says this:

Carter made similar remarks at an event at his presidential center in Atlanta, Georgia, The Associated Press reported Tuesday, pointing to some protesters who have compared Obama to a Nazi. "Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national program on health care," the former president said at the Carter Center, according to AP. "It's deeper than that."

That said, I personally believe there's a number of things feeding this early vitriol:

Hard times ~ People are discontented and tend to pay more attention to what government is doing.

Obama is a Democrat ~ See those Salon pieces I posted at the end of the least thread, which made that argument about Democrats taking from hard working Americans (whites) to give to the undeserving (minorities). I think a white Democrat would also encounter this under the same circumstances.

[DanteGabriel]

When Obama's knee-jerk dissenters become more than a few whacko birthers, let me know.

And oh yes, I should let you know now, when there are sitting members of Congress buying into the birtherism, calling the President a liar on the floor of Congress, and comparing him to a Nazi, it's more than just a few wackos. The inmates are running the asylum over on that side of the aisle.

[Tempra]

And we were still right about Bush.

Here's a question then... If another attack like 9/11 occurred, do you think Obama's detractors would rally around their President in a time of national crisis like most Democrats did?

Without a doubt. In fact, after democrats called Wendell Willkie the "Nazi's choice" in 1940 election, the republicans quickly rallied behind FDR after the attack on pearl habor. Until 2001, republicans could have asked the same question you are now asking.

Nothing puts aside partisan politics faster than an external threat.

[DanteGabriel]

Without a doubt. In fact, after democrats called Wendell Willkie the "Nazi's choice" in 1940 election, the republicans quickly rallied behind FDR after the attack on pearl habor. Until 2001, republicans could have asked the same question you are now asking.

Nothing puts aside partisan politics faster than an external threat.

I totally disagree with you. I think they'd blame him for a lapse on his watch, demand his impeachment, and form more teabagging parties where maybe the weapons won't be holstered. It's funny you are reaching back to 1940 to find an example, because these Republicans are not the Republicans of 1940. You've got Rush Limbaugh, the Republican's drink-stirrer, openly wishing failure on him, and right wing preachers praying for his death. Everything this party of slackjawed reprobates and whorish faux populists does smacks of a bunch of people too whiny and immature to deal with being out of power. In fact, that shit all started with Clinton and the long running Arkansas Project to crowbar a duly elected President out of office.

[Tempra]

And oh yes, I should let you know now, when there are sitting members of Congress buying into the birtherism, calling the President a liar on the floor of Congress, and comparing him to a Nazi, it's more than just a few wackos. The inmates are running the asylum over on that side of the aisle.

The Nazi attack rings oh so hollow after the Bush presidency.

If people compare Bush to Hitler, it is fine (even patriotic to stand up to the tyrant!). If people compare Obama to Hitler, they are racists.

The evil double standard attacks again!

[DanteGabriel]

If people compare Bush to Hitler, it is fine (even patriotic to stand up to the tyrant!). If people compare Obama to Hitler, they are racists.

Oh? Find me people who were saying it was patriotic to compare Bush to Hitler. There were plenty of reasoned dissenters who were branded terrorist-loving sympathizers.

The double standard attacks again in the form of your conveniently elided or edited-together memories.

[TerraPrime]

In a fit of good-naturedness born out of having a very satisfying lunch, I'm going to suggest that we move forward and look to the future, instead of doing tit-for-tat on Bush v Obama. I mean, I'm sure people can guess where I land on that argument, but it's probably more profitable to all involved to just move on.

Just sayin'.

[Tempra]

I totally disagree with you. I think they'd blame him for a lapse on his watch, demand his impeachment, and form more teabagging parties where maybe the weapons won't be holstered. It's funny you are reaching back to 1940 to find an example, because these Republicans are not the Republicans of 1940. You've got Rush Limbaugh, the Republican's drink-stirrer, openly wishing failure on him, and right wing preachers praying for his death. Everything this party of slackjawed reprobates and whorish faux populists does smacks of a bunch of people too whiny and immature to deal with being out of power. In fact, that shit all started with Clinton and the long running Arkansas Project to crowbar a duly elected President out of office.

I would agree if Obama hadn't across the board (for the most part) accepted Bush's counterterrorism policies. Now they can't blame him. They can only call him a hypocrite.

And I reached back to 1940 because that was the last time we were attacked on American soil. Thankfully, there aren't many examples to point to.

[Starkimus]

Agreed. Threatening to force one of your own party members to actually filibuster, as he did with Chris Dodd a few years back, is something you'd never catch Republicans doing. And as far as I can see, he has been AWOL in regards to health insurance reform. He should be right in the mix, cajoling and persuading, threatening when that's called for, and making it clear that any Republican filibuster will have to be an actual filibuster and not a courtesy cloture vote.

Also, as has been said before, the cheat code to government is an utter lack of shamelessness, and the GOP has that in spades. That's why we Democrats always wind up getting hosed.

You have got to be kidding me. Both sides have this in spades. Don't be delisional. How about President Carter pulling out the race card? I knew this would happen. Again, if you oppose anything Obama says, you are obviously a racist. Nevermind that half of his speech to Congress was chop full of (at the very least misinformation) lies. So...Joe Wilson called his ass on it. I agree it was the wrong place to do so, but hey it sure got everyones attention.

But, since Joe Wilson was cursed by being the WHITE MAN, read devil...he is obviously a racist and none of his ideas hold any water. Bleh bleh bleh... I actually have met Mr. Wilson a few times, and if he is a racist..then over 95% of the people of this country are racists with him.

To me what this really means is that the left has totally lost control of this debate and had to bring out the race card in order to misdirect the American people once again.

Do not for one second think that either party has a monopoly on foul play or shamelessness. They all do it.

Hasta!

Stark Out!

[Shryke]

Some more ACORN based news. Apparently at least one of the "videos" is the ACORN person playing a joke on the "investigators": http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...acorn-wars.html

But when the Press-Enterprise newspaper caught up with ACORN employee Tresa Kaelke, she told the newspaper she was messing with the filmmakers and making it all up.

"They were clearly playing with me," she said "I decided to shock them as much as they were shocking me."

Reports the newspaper: "Since she claimed on the video to have killed her husband, two San Bernardino police homicide detectives interviewed her at the office Tuesday. Police said they have been in contact with Kaelke's former husbands and the homicide claims do not appear accurate.

"'At this point, we can't prove that there's anything to her statement,' said San Bernardino police Sgt. Dave Dillon. 'We can't show that ever happened.'

Also, more stories of them being shown the door at other offices: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090916..._door_here.html

[Week]

But, since Joe Wilson was cursed by being the WHITE MAN, read devil...he is obviously a racist and none of his ideas hold any water.

Independent sources support the president's side of the argument. The liar was Joe.

Bleh bleh bleh... I actually have met Mr. Wilson a few times, and if he is a racist..then over 95% of the people of this country are racists with him.

You met him...and that is sufficient to know a person at that level? You guys have a real heart to heart conversation that went long, long into the night?

To me what this really means is that the left has totally lost control of this debate and had to bring out the race card in order to misdirect the American people once again.

Perhaps throwing illegal aliens, death panels, and abortion arguments into the mix contributed more to "losing control of the debate" than anything else?

Do not for one second think that either party has a monopoly on foul play or shamelessness. They all do it.

False equivalence.

[TrackerNeil]

Each President faces their own unique criticism. It is hard to say that Obama has come close, let alone surpassed, the level of vitriol that has been aimed at Clinton or Bush.

Well, Obama hasn't even had a year in office, yet. Even Clinton wasn't impeached over a blow job until he'd reached his second term, so there is ample time for the VARWICON to shift into full gear.

There's something about the anti-Obama sentiment on the right that is disturbing, particularly because it's disconnected from just about anything the president actually has done. The right hates him for death panels, which were never proposed, and his Guantanemo policy, which hasn't changed much from Bush's, and his appointment of activist Supreme Court justices, which Sonia Sotomayor wasn't. There's a sense that they think Obama is illegitimate, despite his solid popular vote victory and his overwhelming Electoral College victory, which far exceeded anything Bush attained in either of his elections put together. I don't know what accounts for this sentiment, but I can't help but wonder if there's not something to what Carter said.