World of Warcraft encore

[Third Knight on the Left]

Additionally you gain Ashen Verdict rep in 10 man, which gets you shiny rings, all the way up to Exalted which is on par with 25 man heroic loot, and BiS for many classes.

Its also kind of funny that you could get that ring without killing a single ICC boss if your the sort of nutter who would do something like that heh.

[Poobah]

I think it'd take about 50 runs of the initial trash in ICC 10. Edit : that's just a guess -> 42K rep to exalted, and you get as I remember about 800 or 900 from memory up to the first boss.

[Inigima]

The tier pieces are BiS by far for me aside from the gloves. Badges are the ONLY way to get the tier pieces. That is my issue.I do not care if casual can get them. make the tokens drop in the 25 mans raids AND purchasable with badges. NO Contradiction. Plus the set bonuses are so good that even if the stats on the tier pieces werent better than anything else, You'd still need them.

Hm. That seems feasible. Is there any reason something like that wouldn't work?

[Weak With The Dawn]

The tier pieces are BiS by far for me aside from the gloves. Badges are the ONLY way to get the tier pieces. That is my issue.I do not care if casual can get them. make the tokens drop in the 25 mans raids AND purchasable with badges. NO Contradiction. Plus the set bonuses are so good that even if the stats on the tier pieces weren't better than anything else, You'd still need them.

I'll admit some bias and ignorance. Rogue t10 4pc is a little lackluster while our 2pc is phenomenal. So for us after 2 pcs of badge gear it's either trinket and offsets, or more tier because we got unlucky.

I don't know why they did away with the token system, the trophies basically work the same way I suppose, but I can only assume having tier tokens drop from bosses would cause raids to progress too quickly before Heroic Mode is out. As it is I've seen about five "Of the Ashen Verdict"s on my realm which means they're all sporting ilevel 270 rings with proc chances without ever having touched anything passed normal Saurfang.

[Angeleyes]

Indeed, Our main tank is 'Of the Ashen Verdict' Though I think he is our first on server, and he went balls to the wall doing it whenever he could since the instance came out. It was actually kind of nice seeing as how we always had a group in 10 man pretty much with healers and dps swapping in and out. I could pop in for two trash runs then hop back out and someone would take my place in the great rep grind.

Now that he isn't pushing it though we hardly ever do it.

Question for those of you who raid ToGC 25 and the like.

I've been a disc priest for the longest time, and have been making the transition to Shadow over the past few weeks. As of tomorrow I'll have 60 Frost Badges, and will be (probably) buying my first T10 piece as Shadow. I was wondering what sort of DPS the shadow priests in your guild have pulled, or are pulling.

Currently I see about 3.7k on the Target Dummy, and anywhere from 4.3 - 4.5 during aforementioned ICC 10 rep runs. How does that compare to where your priests are at? In my guild (Haven't been able to finish Twin Valks 25Heroic) It would put me about in between tanks doing 2-2.5 and top DPS doing 7k, roughly at the bottom of actual DPSers, but not horrible.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Currently I see about 3.7k on the Target Dummy, and anywhere from 4.3 - 4.5 during aforementioned ICC 10 rep runs. How does that compare to where your priests are at? In my guild (Haven't been able to finish Twin Valks 25Heroic) It would put me about in between tanks doing 2-2.5 and top DPS doing 7k, roughly at the bottom of actual DPSers, but not horrible.

4-5k is about what our Spriests do in 10 mans. So it seems about right. Shadow is never really the highest DPS but they can certainly put it out.

[RaceBannon42]

I've been a disc priest for the longest time, and have been making the transition to Shadow over the past few weeks. As of tomorrow I'll have 60 Frost Badges, and will be (probably) buying my first T10 piece as Shadow. I was wondering what sort of DPS the shadow priests in your guild have pulled, or are pulling.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1kzx4usapqrgw5bs/sum/damageDone/?s=12484&e=12779

From last night's ToC, Our SP's dps

Beasts 6500

Lord J 7000

Champs 5650

Twins 7950

Anub 6600

[Kalbear]

Either you're super hardcore and you're willing to put the time into doing ICC 10, ICC 25, <random weekly raid boss>, and 7 heroics a week. Or you don't need the emblems.

Willing to, but not really having fun doing so. I'd rather spend my small amount of time that I get to do wow doing other things.

Edit to add : if you're in enough gear that there isn't a single upgrade for you from ICC 10 then you should be able to clear it in a couple of hours; in preparation for Christmas the top raid guild on my server ran 3 ICC 10 groups then a 25 man, then some alt runs too, all in one night in ~4hours. Thus I can't see how it's an insane time drain to have to run ICC 10.

Yes, I can clear it in a couple hours. It's not that at all. It's that I don't particularly want to do it. It's not fun. heck, doing heroics is fun by comparison; at least I meet new people that way. But doing ICC 10 when it's easy, slow, and is exactly the same as 25? Not interesting. Maybe when we start working on the hard modes. I don't know. Right now, it's just a drain.

To give some background - I raid two times a week, 4 hours a raid. That's all. I barely log on other than that. I resent having to do ICC 10 to remain competitive for ICC 25 hard modes. It's not a requirement that in order for you to be hardcore, you need to spend 4 hours a day playing.

[Angeleyes]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1kzx4usapqrgw5bs/sum/damageDone/?s=12484&e=12779

From last night's ToC, Our SP's dps

Beasts 6500

Lord J 7000

Champs 5650

Twins 7950

Anub 6600

Thanks a bunch! This is the sort of thing I was hoping to see. Its looking like my damage breakdowns and his are similar, with the exception that he was critting about 1.5 times as often (makes sense in 25 man vs. 10 man) and his gear gives him about a 300 - 400 edge to Spell Power and 200 edge to haste. All and all I'm thinking I'm sitting pretty well at my gearing levels. I'll keep parsing this a bit, but the confidence boost is what I was looking for. Thanks again

[RaceBannon42]

Thanks a bunch! This is the sort of thing I was hoping to see. Its looking like my damage breakdowns and his are similar, with the exception that he was critting about 1.5 times as often (makes sense in 25 man vs. 10 man) and his gear gives him about a 300 - 400 edge to Spell Power and 200 edge to haste. All and all I'm thinking I'm sitting pretty well at my gearing levels. I'll keep parsing this a bit, but the confidence boost is what I was looking for. Thanks again

No problem.

I try and post all out parses withing a day or two normally

here is our WoL homepage http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/23984/

[Third Knight on the Left]

Saurfang down, yayaayaayayaya. :P (yes i'm a nub) :D

[Poobah]

I still haven't even seen that fucking hilt drop, so I've determined to drop skinning for jewelcrafting, level my JC to 450 and make money off of epic cuts then buy the damned thing.

As a bonus +84 attack power is worth a little more to an enhancement shaman than +40 crit, all of about 6 ap for me.

[Inigima]

So, after all that complaining about not needing raid tokens... it looks to me like you do after all?

Maybe I'm missing something. It looks like you can buy the basic T10 gear with Frost Emblems, as with:

Shadowblade Pauldrons

Shoulder Leather

477 Armor

+107 Agility

+107 Stamina

Red Socket

Socket Bonus: +4 Agility

Durability 70 / 70

Classes: Rogue

Requires Level 80

Item Level 251

Equip: Improves hit rating by 63 (1.92% @ L80).

Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 71 (1.55% @ L80).

Equip: Increases attack power by 126.

Shadowblade's Battlegear (0/5)

Shadowblade Breastplate

Shadowblade Gauntlets

Shadowblade Helmet

Shadowblade Legplates

Shadowblade Pauldrons

(2) Set: Your Tricks of the Trade ability now grants you 15 energy instead of costing energy.

(4) Set: Gives your melee finishing moves a 13% chance to add 3 combo points to your target.

But it looks like you can then upgrade that to the Sanctified version, which requires the regular version and a raid token (no additional emblems):

Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons

Binds when picked up

Shoulder Leather

499 Armor

+120 Agility

+120 Stamina

Red Socket

Socket Bonus: +4 Agility

Durability 70 / 70

Classes: Rogue

Requires Level 80

Item Level 264

Equip: Improves hit rating by 72 (2.2% @ L80).

Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 80 (1.74% @ L80).

Equip: Increases attack power by 145.

Sanctified Shadowblade's Battlegear (0/5)

Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons

Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates

Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet

Sanctified Shadowblade Gauntlets

Sanctified Shadowblade Breastplate

(2) Set: Your Tricks of the Trade ability now grants you 15 energy instead of costing energy.

(4) Set: Gives your melee finishing moves a 13% chance to add 3 combo points to your target.

There's also a heroic verson, which I'm guessing comes from hard modes:

Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons

Heroic

Binds when picked up

Shoulder Leather

521 Armor

+136 Agility

+136 Stamina

Red Socket

Socket Bonus: +4 Agility

Durability 70 / 70

Classes: Rogue

Requires Level 80

Item Level 277

Equip: Improves hit rating by 82 (2.5% @ L80).

Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 90 (1.96% @ L80).

Equip: Increases attack power by 165.

Sanctified Shadowblade's Battlegear (0/5)

Sanctified Shadowblade Breastplate

Sanctified Shadowblade Gauntlets

Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet

Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates

Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons

(2) Set: Your Tricks of the Trade ability now grants you 15 energy instead of costing energy.

(4) Set: Gives your melee finishing moves a 13% chance to add 3 combo points to your target.

So maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think it addresses a lot of the concerns about casuals having too-easy access to formerly hardcore-only loot. It also means you don't have to worry that you wasted all those frost emblems just to have to spend them again to buy the properly tiered version. It doesn't do much about having to farm frost emblems. But if you do one a day, it's fun and doesn't take long, and of course you still get more frost emblems from raids. So instead of blitzing through, just do your shit like normal and the gear will come. No?

EDIT: What I linked are the T10 rogue shoulders, since that's what my main is. There are comparable sets for all classes, containing chest, hands, head, legs and shoulders; here's the list. I know there's also some really nice off-tier frost gear, much of which doesn't conflict -- waist, trink, back, etc. There do seem to be some off-tier pieces that have corresponding tier pieces; I guess the thing to do is compare stats and consider set bonuses. Rogue (2) T10 seems pretty lame, although (4) T10 seems quite nice.

[RaceBannon42]

Ok Ini, here is how Tier gear worked in TBC. I didnt play prior to this, so I I guess they were slightly different.

The raids were divided into Tiers. T4, which was Kara, Grull's Lair, and Magtheridon.

T5 which was Tempest Keep, and Serpentshrine Cavern, and T6 which was Black Temple and Mt. Hyjal. Originally you needed to be attuned to even enter most of them. Kara required a key, which required you to run several heroics. I don't recall exactly what they were, but basically you needed to kill the last bosses in the previous raid to enter the next ones. It could be fairly long and arduous.

Now Tier was in TBC was earned through a token system. unlike in Vanilla where it just dropped. Certain bosses dropped a glove, chest, etc token usable by 3 different classes, which could be redeemed for the proper piece for your class/spec. The better pieces, eg head and chest were dropped by the last bosses in the dungeon. Badges were originally only earned in heroics and had nothing whatso ever to do with tier gear. In 2.3 Blizzard added a ton of high quality badge gear and made it so raid bosses dropped them as well.

When wrath started, the system was similar. T7 tokens dropped of of bosses in Nacc, and OS. In addition VoA dropped tier gear(not tokens) These you did not need to spend badges/emblems on. They did however give players the option to purchase 2 of the pieces with emblems if you were unlucky/in a hurry/ casual. The system was the same in T8/Ulduar. OH yeah it came in 10 man and 25 man versions.

Then comes Tier 9/Trial of the Crusader. Here is where I think they jumped the shark. Tier gear was splint into 3 levels. 232 purchases entirely with emblems. 245 purchased with emblems and a trophy earned in 25 man or heroic 10, and 258 purchased soley with a token which dropped only from heroic Anub. So esentially the real gear only was available from the final boss in heroic.

Finally comes tier 10 /ICC Blizzard once again went with 3 levels of tier gear. the first level costs emblems. The second costs the first level piece plus a token dropped by certain bosses. The 3rd level costs the 2nd lv piece plus a different token dropped by heroic mode bosses.

So, while I dont see what was so wrong with the TBC mode, I understand that they want it to be more 'casual' friendly, It doesnt bother me that that someone who runs heroics can have the 'same' (discounting the three steps) tier gear as end game raiders. What bothers me is that in order for someone who commits the time to raid end game content, you are forcing them to also run content that is entirely useless to them, if they want to be able to do hard modes. I shouldn't have to log on every day to do the heroic pug. On non raid nights I often have other things going on, and on raid nights I'm stuck here for 5 hours as is, the last thing I want is to run a fucking 5 man pug for emblems. You can claim running the daily pug is fun, that doesnt make it so.

[Inigima]

So, while I dont see what was so wrong with the TBC mode, I understand that they want it to be more 'casual' friendly, It doesnt bother me that that someone who runs heroics can have the 'same' (discounting the three steps) tier gear as end game raiders. What bothers me is that in order for someone who commits the time to raid end game content, you are forcing them to also run content that is entirely useless to them, if they want to be able to do hard modes. I shouldn't have to log on every day to do the heroic pug. On non raid nights I often have other things going on, and on raid nights I'm stuck here for 5 hours as is, the last thing I want is to run a fucking 5 man pug for emblems. You can claim running the daily pug is fun, that doesnt make it so.

That makes sense. I was all set to point to how you can get emblems much faster just running raid content, and... then I saw that frost emblems weren't retrofitted to the old raids, which sucks. So you can only get 21 or so a week (5 weekly raid + 8 each 10/25 ICC). That's faster than the 14 you'd get just doing a daily heroic each day, but not by that much.

If it makes you feel any better, it's projected that you'll be up to 53/week once they finish opening ICC (5 + 8 + 8 + 12 + 8 + 8 + 4). These numbers are taken from Wowhead comments, I'm operating under the assumption that they're accurate.

Still. You can get your tier gear without setting foot in a 5-man, and you'll still get it faster than non-raiders. And only raiders can get the tokens required for the upgrades. Maybe I'd feel different about it if I were a hardcore raider -- I do raid, but only casually -- but, and I don't say this to intentionally be a jerk, it's hard for me to be sympathetic. They made tier gear accessible to casual players, at a cost of... making raiders wait a little longer. And they threw the hardcore set upgraded tier gear as an apology.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Rogue (2) T10 seems pretty lame, although (4) T10 seems quite nice.

This statement is entirely backwards. (2) T10 is AMAZING. Not only does Tricks give one raid member a 10% attack bonus, but with the set bonus, effectively gives you 30 energy every 30 seconds you wouldn't otherwise have (15 energy you didn't use, plus 15 energy back). Considering mutilate has always had slow energy regen, and combat's is worse, this is a HUGE HUGE HUGE boost to dps. You should already be using Trick of the Trade on every cooldown, this just makes it so much more worth it.

On the other hand (4) pc T10 is completely wasted on Mutilate rogues who's CP regen is already ridiculous. It either means effectively wasting 2 combo points every time you mutilate, or energy capping, or Envenom buff clipping, all of which are a big DPS loss in the long run.

For combat it just replaces a few talents that they had to stop taking due to new 3.3 poison mechanics and doesn't really effect their DPS by very much.

If you want the math and theory behind this just check out the Elitist Jerk rogue forums, but seriously, that (2)T10 is one of the best set bonus' they have ever given rogues.

Also Poobah the JC only AP gems are 68 not 84. Still good of course, but I didn;t want you to get disapointed.

[RaceBannon42]

Also Poobah the JC only AP gems are 68 not 84. Still good of course, but I didn;t want you to get disapointed.

normal epics are 40 so each dragons eye is 28 extra ap times 3 is 84ap. :)

[Weak With The Dawn]

normal epics are 40 so each dragons eye is 28 extra ap times 3 is 84ap. :)

Good point. I always over look the bigger picture :/

[Poobah]

Yeah I was looking at the 3*28 improvement over my current setup :)

[Inigima]

This statement is entirely backwards. (2) T10 is AMAZING. Not only does Tricks give one raid member a 10% attack bonus, but with the set bonus, effectively gives you 30 energy every 30 seconds you wouldn't otherwise have (15 energy you didn't use, plus 15 energy back). Considering mutilate has always had slow energy regen, and combat's is worse, this is a HUGE HUGE HUGE boost to dps. You should already be using Trick of the Trade on every cooldown, this just makes it so much more worth it.

On the other hand (4) pc T10 is completely wasted on Mutilate rogues who's CP regen is already ridiculous. It either means effectively wasting 2 combo points every time you mutilate, or energy capping, or Envenom buff clipping, all of which are a big DPS loss in the long run.

That makes sense. Didn't think of it that way because I raid only occasionally, so my opportunities to use more than 1-2 Tricks in a given fight are limited, and one of them is generally at the beginning.