Dragon Keeper by Robin Hobb

[Slick Mongoose]

Who is this fat hero you speak of? Alice? I don't remember reading a description of her being fat.

I doubt a fat hero would turn me off a fantasy book.

He's talking about the Soldier Son trilogy.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

Who is this fat hero you speak of? Alice? I don't remember reading a description of her being fat.

I doubt a fat hero would turn me off a fantasy book.

This is a reference to the main character of the Soldier's Son series. Those books have been mostly reviled across fandom (although there are supporters here and there) - some people argue that the fat hero turned a lot of people off. I for one thought it was a really interesting approach to take and I appreciate that Hobb usually includes under-represented figures as main characters in her books (homosexual/sexually ambiguous characters, overweight ones, etc). That said, I was never able to finish the first Soldier's Son book myself.

Edit: Oops, didn't see that this was already answered. Oh well.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I didnt mind a fat hero at all. Rather, I think thats part of Hobb's charm i.e. very NOT cliched writing. However, I would have rather had a story that took place in the Farseer world. I'll admit to being slightly put off by that fact.

[TheEvilKing]

Picked up Dragon Haven today. Won't get to it for at least a couple of weeks, but will have a report for you people up when complete.

[Imp]

Picked up Dragon Haven today. Won't get to it for at least a couple of weeks, but will have a report for you people up when complete.

Same. I didn't think it was out yet but wandered into borders today to kill some time and there it was.

Not gonna be able to get round to it for a while either, damn to read pile is getting too large.

[Garlan the Gallant]

Just got the news that my pre-order of Dragon Haven just shipped. Heres to hopping that it shapes up well. Friggin' exchange rate :tantrum:

[Curethan]

Finished Dragon Haven a few days ago. Fans of Hobb's development as a character writer can expect to be pleased. More indepth exploration of characters' feelings and motives and more easy to predict plotlines. Those looking for swashbuckling action, intrigue and military adventure should look elsewhere.

Overall I loved it. Some great insight into the dragons and magic of her world, and this series explained and thus dispelled some of the things that had bothered me in earlier works.

[Ashara]

Just got it from the library last week, and I like it very much so far, particulary its focus on damaged characters.

By the way, I was one of those folks who loved Soldier Son trilogy. I actually liked it more than Farseer. Never dug Fitz so much, and the second trilogy in particular was pretty dissappointing. Fool's books are still my favorite, and I am not sure yet if this one pushes Liveships down the list :) I like the setting a lot.

[Liadin]

I thought the setting was the coolest thing about the Soldier's Son trilogy and am surprised that others didn't like it. What bugged me about those books (well, the last two; loved the first) was the determinism. Nevare was completely lacking in free will and agency--in the final book, literally not in control of his own body. I couldn't stand it. While people who write books about writing do give some bad advice, I buy into the oft-repeated "the main character should drive the plot through his/her actions, rather than simply reacting".... or, fighting the plot to no avail.... or, watching.

At any rate, I've read all the Farseer and Soldier's Son books in the space of less than a year and have OD'd on Hobb big time, so not planning to read the Rain Wilds books soon. From the sound of it on this thread, they should come after the Liveships/Tawny Man books? Would you say all the trilogies in that world should be read in the order they're written for those who want to avoid spoilers?

[Stone-Made-Soft]

I thought the setting was the coolest thing about the Soldier's Son trilogy and am surprised that others didn't like it. What bugged me about those books (well, the last two; loved the first) was the determinism. Nevare was completely lacking in free will and agency--in the final book, literally not in control of his own body. I couldn't stand it. While people who write books about writing do give some bad advice, I buy into the oft-repeated "the main character should drive the plot through his/her actions, rather than simply reacting".... or, fighting the plot to no avail.... or, watching.

WOT would drive you nuts then. T'averen got old after a while.

[Liadin]

WOT would drive you nuts then. T'averen got old after a while.

I've read WoT and, oddly, not been so bothered by it. Although granted, have only read the series once, and read the first several when I was about 14. Maybe the difference there is that only 3 main characters out of many are ta'veren, whereas in Soldier's Son it's Nevare, 1st person, all the way through. Or maybe it's that, much as I dislike destiny as a plot device, I'm used to it at WoT levels; Soldier's Son takes it way beyond that to the point where "the magic" is like the All-Devouring Plot Device of Doom. Argh.

ETA: Plus, reading an entire 700-page book about a character literally not in control of his own body is just extreme. By any standards.

[Ashara]

It never bothered me about Nevarre, and in many ways, as a person who spend most of her life fighting her body into submission to achieve an approximation of a decent shape demanded by the modern beauty standards, I comissariated soooooo strongly. Honestly, even for us, ordinary female humans, without the malicious magic, the body more often than not just doesn't respond in a logical way to diet and excersise (gods, his dad blaming him for growing fatter and fatter and not believing that he is doing what he possibly canwas super-painful, so much like my mother when I was a teen). Besides, characters who do not have control or even true understanding of their situation is Hobb's trademark. They kindda muddle through it and any control they achieve is temporary and ellusive... I like it about her books. Very much like real life.

And in the end, Nevarre does take matters in his hands, and wins.... I found it pretty uplifting because boy, this guys circumstances where so much against him it's not even funny :) Now, if I only could pull myself a super-firm toned super-model's boddy aout of my Okayish one.... You wish!!!

[awesome possum]

I enjoyed this book. The Sedric parts were a bit of a drag, and I understand the sentiment that almost every POV repeated the same things about their characters over and over and over again. The Hest/Sedric details were sloppily done; I think anyone with half a brain would have realized they were lovers during the scene when Alise first confronts Hest about having an affair with a woman.

That said, it was a good buildup and I am in the queue for Dragon Haven at my library.

Really, I just love the world Hobb has created and I'll gladly take the weaker parts of the story in order to see more of it.

That was a stupid development.

It's not like he drank a quart of the blood.

But didn't Sintara say at one point that even a little bit of dragon's blood had amazing effects on humans?

But Hest is a guy you love to hate

I didn't get this at all. Hest seemed like he could be that after his proposal to Alise and his conversation with Sedric, but as the book went on and more was revealed about him he just because this obnoxious d-bag. I didn't love hating him, I just wanted him to stop appearing on the page and then stop being thought about by Alise and Sedric.

[Curethan]

I enjoyed this book. The Sedric parts were a bit of a drag, and I understand the sentiment that almost every POV repeated the same things about their characters over and over and over again. The Hest/Sedric details were sloppily done; I think anyone with half a brain would have realized they were lovers during the scene when Alise first confronts Hest about having an affair with a woman.

That said, it was a good buildup and I am in the queue for Dragon Haven at my library.

Really, I just love the world Hobb has created and I'll gladly take the weaker parts of the story in order to see more of it.

I didn't get this at all. Hest seemed like he could be that after his proposal to Alise and his conversation with Sedric, but as the book went on and more was revealed about him he just because this obnoxious d-bag. I didn't love hating him, I just wanted him to stop appearing on the page and then stop being thought about by Alise and Sedric.

I think if you take into consideration the social norms of the setting and the characters' experience with gender roles it not unusual for this not to even occur to Alise.

My son also enjoys these series. He didn't realise the Sedric situation until it was spelled out. He is a quite intelligent and open fifteen YO and has been raised to be educated and liberal minded about sexual orientations etc. That said, being a typical teenage boy he found it suprising and confronting, haha.

It's difficult to be genuinly accepting, I admit to feeling slightly uncomfortable reading stuff like this myself. But I enjoy being challenged be the things I read too. I didn't like the soldier son much as it just felt too unremitantly bleak, but bravo to RH for adding a challenging dimension to her writing from me.

[Ashara]

Just finished it, and to be honest I couldn't put it down. I am a simple soul. :) I didn't mind Sedric's chapters, he is a typical Hobb's whiner and self-justifier au par with Malta and Fitz. And Malta beats him hand down in terms of annoying. I doubt any character ever can beat Malta in this department. I am also recognizing the other of Hobb's favorite types there, like Kenneth and Regal in Hest or Tats who definetly have the feel of what's his name in Soldier's Son, the Nevarre's best friend?

[Stone-Made-Soft]

I enjoyed this book. The Sedric parts were a bit of a drag, and I understand the sentiment that almost every POV repeated the same things about their characters over and over and over again. The Hest/Sedric details were sloppily done; I think anyone with half a brain would have realized they were lovers during the scene when Alise first confronts Hest about having an affair with a woman.

It was obvious way before this.

This scene was for the readers completly lacking gaydar.

Speaking of sloppily done:

I thought Sedric's recollection of his first time with Hest was really awkard. It was almost like reading a rape scene.

[Ashara]

Yep, it was not the highest point of the book. More like something from fanfiction.net

[pat5150]

I'm quite eager to read Dragon Haven, especially since all the good stuff will take place in that book. Remember that this was supposed to be one novel until the publishers decided to split it in two. So Dragon Keeker was only sort of an introduction, with very little happening.

Patrick

[Galactus]

I thought Sedric's recollection of his first time with Hest was really awkard. It was almost like reading a rape scene.

I don't think that's accidental at all.

Halfway through Dragon Haven. I kind of love the character dynamics. It really reminds me of Infinite Ryvius in a lot of ways.

[ljkeane]

I finished Dragon Haven today and to be honest it still feels like I'm only half way through a book. That was fine with the last book but I'm a bit disappointed that's the case with this book as well.